I'm trying to find a decent deer bullet for a 1:14 twist quarter bore. I have a cache of the discontinued 75gr Barnes X, but in the event I can't get these to shoot, the 87 grain Speer Hot Core looks like it'd work as it is actually shorter than the 75gr X (and the Hornady 87 and Sierra 90), so should stabilize. Speer lists them as game bullets (as opposed to varmint). Anybody tried these on medium deer at moderate velocity?
Thanks!

Keep the MV to no more than 3100 fps, and it will do just fine as long as you stay away from solid shoulder impact and any raking shots. I've also used the Hornady 87 grain SP and 85 grain Nosler BT in a couple of .250 Savage pistols with MVs around 2900 fps and in a .257 JDJ at 2875 fps, and they do quite well on deer-sized game.

Try the 90 grain hollow point from Sierra....it's a fine deer bullet if your twist will stabilize it.....drive it as fast as you want.

I have used 87 gr. bullets successfully in a .257 roberts loaded down to 25-35 balistics on mule deer. This was my quite load.The bullets I used were probably even more fragile than the one you propose. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Waterfowler:
I'm trying to find a decent deer bullet for a 1:14 twist quarter bore. I have a cache of the discontinued 75gr Barnes X, but in the event I can't get these to shoot, the 87 grain Speer Hot Core looks like it'd work as it is actually shorter than the 75gr X (and the Hornady 87 and Sierra 90), so should stabilize. Speer lists them as game bullets (as opposed to varmint). Anybody tried these on medium deer at moderate velocity?
Thanks!

They are NOT as good a deer bullet as some will lead y6ou to believe. I have tried them in my .25 Rem., .250 Savage, .257 Robert and .25-06 and they are way to fragile. I would suggest you keep your deer bullets at 100 gr., even for smaller deer. Lawdog

quote:

Originally posted by Lawdog_Gary:

They are NOT as good a deer bullet as some will lead y6ou to believe. I have tried them in my .25 Rem., .250 Savage, .257 Robert and .25-06 and they are way to fragile. I would suggest you keep your deer bullets at 100 gr., even for smaller deer. Lawdog

Gary I'm shocked. The bullet I was talking about earlier was an 87 gr Fp Winchester.At about 2600fps I never had a misshap.That Win.Fp should be more frangable than the hot core you'd think. Do you have any particulars. You've sparked my interest. roger

My 1-14 .250Savage is 3 for 3 on whitetail from 130-180 yards with the 87 speer hot core. I'm pushing it between 2900 and 3000 fps in the 24" barrel of my M99. Two were complete pass throughs, the third hit the leg bone on the way in took out the near lung and turned up to take out the spine. Would a 100 gr bullet keep its course better if it would stabilize in this rifle? I don't know for sure, just know "never say never"

Lawdog _Gary wrote:

quote:

They are NOT as good a deer bullet as some will lead y6ou to believe

Well, Gary, someone should tell that to the many deer that fell to my XP and Encore in .250 Savage and a Contender in .257 JDJ. Bet they'd be shocked to hear that.....

Granted, my favorite quarterbore bullet in the single shot pistols is the 100 grain Ballistic Tip, but the 85 grain Ballistic Tip and 87 grainers from Hornady, Sierra and Speer will do just fine. In fact, J.D. Jones, who probably has taken more game with handguns than most of us combined, touts the 85 grain Nosler BT as THE whitetail bullet for the .257 JDJ (@ app. 2850-2900 fps). And, its penetration is pretty much on par with the 87 grain SPs, though it does retain velocity and energy better due to its higher BC.

bartsche,

quote:

Do you have any particulars.

I bought two boxes of the Speer Hot Core's off Ebay and loaded them up in my .25 Rem., .250 Savage, .257 Roberts and .25-06. Accuracy was OK, not as good as the 85 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip I have used for varmints(except in the case of the .25 Rem. Very accurate and I am using the last of the Hot Cores in the .25>. After seeing what these Speer bullets did on Coyotes I wonld never chance them on deer. Too explosive even in the .25 Rem. I prefer my beer bullets to exit the deer, if at all possible. Helps in tracking if needed. Lawdog

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Try the 90 grain hollow point from Sierra....it's a fine deer bullet if your twist will stabilize it.....drive it as fast as you want.

A big ditto.
That bullet is very accurate in my 250 Sav, like 3/8" for 3 shots at 100. Sierra got it right with that bullet for sure. My 250 is a custom bolt rifle with a Douglas Premium barrel.
Don

Lawdog-It's possible Speer changed the bullet over the years. My bullets are from an older lot, but these, along with the Hornady & Sierra 87 grainers and the 85 grain BT, generally exit our smaller central TX deer on virtually any broadside presentation. But like I noted in an earlier post, I still prefer the 100 grain BT in the quarterbore single shots pistols.

The bullets I'd try would be the 85 NBT (we tipped over a nice 6 pt bull a couple of years back with it so I'd guess it would work on your basic whitey).

I also would let er rip with the 90 Sierra and it seems to me a few years back we used the 87? Rem a bit.

Out of 25/05's these bullets did just fine for us for deer/lopes.

Good luck

MD

Not much chance I'll find a 100 grainer that'll stabilize at 1:14". I have some of each of the Hornady and Speer 87 PSPs (and a few old PowerLokt HPs), Sierra 90 HPs and the Barnes 75 X. I think I'll disect a few this weekend and see what I find. Will post findings, maybe pictures. Thanks for the feedback, keep it comin'.

I think that Barnes really hurt medium case capacity 25 owners when they dropped the 75 grain X, since it would allow a guy to practice with 75 grain VMaxs and shoot deer with the Xs. As my standard in the 250-3000, I have gone to the Speer 87 grain HotCore for deer and 87 grain TNT for varmints, since they shoot to the same approximate POA. I had used the 90 grain Sierra BTHP for over 20 years, but after a couple of bad experiences with it failing to penetrate the pleural cavity on easy lung shots, I stopped using them for deer. The 87 grain Speers shoot good groups in my 1-14" twist 250-3000 rifles and offer a nice balance of penetration, accuracy, and velocity potential.

Jeff

I wouldn't tell anyone this (grins) but my wife and i have shot more than a couple whitetails and lopes with the 75 v-max out of our 6/06. One shot kills, some pass thru and some don't.

But don't tell anyone please or I'll get the lecture.

Its our go to load on this one place with a few houses in the vicinity.

MD

quote:

I wouldn't tell anyone this (grins) but my wife and i have shot more than a couple whitetails and lopes with the 75 v-max

Mark,
I didn't want to bring it up either, but a guy from Alaska on another board claims to have taken several deer (mostly blacktails) with the .257 75gr and .264 90gr V-Max. Claims either one will break both shoulders of a deer and that although they are marketed as varmint bullets, they have much thicker jackets than similar weight Ballistic Tips. But... I've also heard of folks cranking them up to near 4000 in the big 25s and smoking them before they make it to the target, so ???

I cut open a few of the bullets I had on hand and scanned them. Draw your own conclusions...:
1. Sierra 90gr Game King HP
2. Speer 87Gr Hot Core SP
3. Hornady 87gr Spire Pt.
4. Remington 87gr PowerLokt HP (discontinued)
Looks like the Speer that I was hoping to use probably has the thinnest jacket of the bunch. The Hornady probably has the thickest. What really surprised me was how beefy the jacket of the old Remington was, one that has always been pushed as a varmint bullet. Feedback?

Of the 4 I am sure you could make any of them work. If I had to make a choice it would be either the Sierra or the Rem.

MD

Vapo Dog was the first to suggest it, but if you had to have smaller than the 100 grain bullets, my first choice would be the 90 grain HP Sierra....

A lot of the varmint bullets will also work quite well when the velocity is down to slower speeds like Roger Bartsche suggested...

Mark Dobrenski's luck with fragile bullets in my opinion, is a little trickier with the faster cartridges.. it requires better shot placement... so Mark and the wife must be good shots! I'd put more faith in the lower velocity with the fragile bullets... the 85 grain ballistic tip would be a good example...That would be my first choice for the parameters you mentioned after the 90 grain HP Sierra...

Good luck with your choice tho...
cheers
seafire

I'd go with the Hornady first.

Regardless of how the sectioned bullets look, I have never, ever, had a 90 grain Sierra BTHP penetrate through and through on a rib cage shot on a whitetail weighing less than 150 lbs. I have had much better luck with the Speer 87 grain HotCores penetrating. Perhaps the jacket thickness is an imperfect test of a bullet's penetration potential.

I have had a number of spectacular kills using the 90 grain Sierra 90 grain BTHP, so, when they work, they work very well. But when they don't work, they are a complete failure.

Jeff

I'm reading this with some interest since I, just today, bought a used Ruger Ultra-Light in 257. I got a great deal; the rifle appears never to have been taken out of the box (maybe the dealer was having trouble getting rid of this "obsolete" cartridge.) and a Simmons Aetec scope for $550. The spec from Ruger says it has a 1 in 10 twist which should stabilize any of the heavier bullets. I was considering a 100 to 117 gr bullet.
I have hopes this will be a good whitetail rifle for my neice.

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:
I have had a number of spectacular kills using the 90 grain Sierra 90 grain BTHP, so, when they work, they work very well. But when they don't work, they are a complete failure.Jeff

I use to use the 90gr Sierra hpbt in a .257 because it was so accurate. I had what I consider a spectacular failure with one on a coyote. It hit him at 40 yds. just behind the shoulder.At least that was where I was holding. There was a load thump and the coyote did a complete rollover got on his feet and ran like the wind. He got lost somewhere in the sage brush.I figure that bullet wasn't going much over 3K if that.

If I were hunting deer that bullet would not be my first, second or third choice even at 1/2 the speed. roger

I could understand your statement if you'd of found said Yote, but you didn't.

So you really no idea of where you hit him, so I'd be inclined to give that some thought.

I've been around the demise of a lot of yotes and I'd want to know for sure where you hit him b4 you claimed it to be a failure.

Just my 12 cents worth.

MD

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dobrenski:
I could understand your statement if you'd of found said Yote, but you didn't.

So you really no idea of where you hit him, so I'd be inclined to give that some thought.

I've been around the demise of a lot of yotes and I'd want to know for sure where you hit him b4 you claimed it to be a failure.
Just my 12 cents worth.MD

Oh poopy! I,ve given it some thought for over 35 years.It was a short distance, a steady rest and a standing completely visable target.

Have you ever given any thought to the word pontification? roger

The 100 gr bullet is still loaded for the 1-14" twisted 250 Savage. I would try these but avoid a boat tail or other long version. The higher potential velocity of the 257 over the 250 is an advantage to stabilize the 100 gr.

A friend used the 87 gr Sierra from a Roberts on deer back when that's all he had and they worked.

As far as any bullets lack of ability to completely penetrat a coyote I had to try many before I came to the conclusion that you will get exit holes with just about any 22 centerfire bullet some of the time. My experience with 6mm bullets from 75 grains up led me to believe that they always went thru. My one experience with medium light bullets in a 25 calibe (25-06 Iler) was a 85 grain ballistic tip broadsie behind the shoulder left a 3 inch exit hole (large feral goat) and a quickly dead animal. Impact velocity must have been over 3100 fps.

While sectioned bullets do make for nice visuals, the "look" of their composition is not always indicative of on-game performance.

Just thought I'd mention this.

Bobby, thanks for the feedback. Wouldn't you think that on bullets of similar construction and nose design (i.e., Speer & Hornady above), that a thinner jacket would generally denote a more expansive bullet? Does the jacket or core metal hardness vary between brands? Maybe that has an effect.

Jacket composition and the pureness of the lead core figure prominently in the performance of the bullet.

With that being said, however, design and jacket thickness (not to mention skives along the bearing surface) are also key factors -- they're just not the only factors that come into play. Lesser players in the expansion game include barrel twist and smoothness of the rifling. The latter are less significant in game loads but in high-velocity rounds featuring frangible bullets (such as the Hornady SX), they certainly factor into the equation. Most SX bullets can't be pushed beyond 3400 fps without coming apart, but in a smooth barrel with a slow twist, that can sometimes be stretched to 3550-3600. But in a rough bore with a fast twist, bullet integrity may be compromised at 32-3300 fps.

We shot some deer with them back in the late 60's early 70's I found them to be frangible. They worked good on nice broad side shots but angles they left something out.

I found now days that at max 25-06 vel. they sure blow up p dogs nicely.

Any of the 4 pictured, when placed between the eye and the ear of any deer in N.A. will result in "the work starts now"!!! And any one of the 4 placed in the neck of any said deer in N.A. will result in the same result as previous!!! The .25's are deer killing projectiles!!! My favorite of them is the 117 grain SIERRA SPBT out of a .257 or a .25-06 and then the head and neck shots(I'll probably shoot 12-15 deer this fall and all will be shot in that region.....unless one of them just happens to be 'mui-grande' and a shot placed thus would cause a cave-in of big horns, rendering them rather useless as e-Bay fodder for horn hunters!!) My goal for the fall is to try the 75 grain VMAXS from a .25-06 and the 87 grainers!! I have seen the results of the 120 grain VMAXS up side the head of unsuspecting crop-eaters from a 7BR at 150 yards!!! Pretty definite!! Now to push the little 75 grainers about 1000fps faster and check it out!!! I'm sorry but shooting a whitetail in this country is much easier than shooting a groundhog!!! 100 groundhogs a year is a tough act but a hundred whitetails would be a 3 week trial!! Use whatever bullets you want......just shoot a bunch of them!!! GHD

Charlie,
Any of the above bullets placed between the ribs of a deer will also start the work, let alone between the ear and the eye. I've killed elk for years here in Idaho with the 130 Sierra/270Win. I get a kick out of all this bullet blow-up stuff. I've even had that bullet exit on broad side elk. For what it's worth ones I've shot with my bow often have the arrow exit.

Pedro

A few years back a guy I know was deer hunting with a 25/06, came upon a nice 5point bull and started shooting. 3 shots later with the bull on the ground in front of him. He found out he had brought 87gr. bullets!
Another time Gerry Blair(used to write for The Trapper & Predator Caller) told me he drew an elk tag in Ariz. Went hunting, something happened to the scope on his 06 Springfield and he barrowed a 243. Well, he killed a big bull the second day and that night back at back at camp he found out he had used an 85gr. Sierra spitzer for a 1 shot kill. When he told me this he was dead seriour. Pedro

Extropolation carries risks but it might help you to know that I have shot both the 6mm 70gr hornady SP, the 100gr 6.5mm hornady SP and the 7mm hornady SP out of variously 6mm rem, 6.5x57R and 7x57. All these bullets are non interlock and near the same SD as the 87gr .257.

The 6mm is doing 3,500fps and holds together better than a 90gr BT at 3,200fps. I have never recovered one out of about 20 shots this year on roe deer (about 55-60lb weight). The 6.5 is doing 3,300fps and is a fantastic bullet, the 7x57 is the slowest and also works well but a little softer it seems.

Also used the 87gr 6mm hornady at 3,200fps from a 243 on some 100+lb fallow - very good performance.

I would try the hornadies!

If we get back to what shoots best out of a slow twist barrel as our first concern, the consider the flat base bullets first. The BC difference is of no issue at reasonable distances.
My Roberts doesn't seem to shoot boat tails nearly as well as flat base bullets in every weight I've tried.
Of the bullets above, in a picky barrel, I'd start with the Hornady. Nate

Edit: PS..I like the Sierra HP quite a bit and in several weights and calibers for deer. I know the "only a Nosler Partion" rant well. Try these and you may tone the rant down.