I want to get my first centerfire small bore rifle and I want to know which cartridge would be the quietest.
My groundhog/coyote hunting would be on farm land but near homes so don't want to piss off locals.

The hornet is too controversial, I read about 50% of hornet owner think they group great the other half claims they can't group at all or consistently.
With my luck I'd get a lemon rifle so I'd like to steer clear of the hornet.

A friend told me the 6 mm and 25 cal's sound like a atom bomb has detonated beside you, too bad that bore size looked like it would be great for coyotes.

I like to reload so that eliminates the new rimfire cartridges.

green,

You've already discounted my choice; the 22 Hornet.

I use a somewhat reduced load in 22 Hornet of 5 grs. Unique & a 45 gr. copper-clad lead bullet that is pretty unobtrusive but still gets the job done.

Since that's out - I'd say you need to start looking at either the 17, 20 or .221 Remington Fireball.

Gidday Greenjoy.

Easy answer is just put a suppressor on a 222 or 223 and have at it. They are no more noisy than a 22rf and accuracy is generally improved with maybe a 20-60 fps increase in velocity.

Its a no brainer really unless you have those ridiculously restrictive constraints on you freedom that they have in the US also.

The suppressors are the answer to a lot of problems if you can have one.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

I would suggest you consider the 221 Fireball in a nice light Rem 700.

or

A .218 Bee in a Ruger No.1

I chose the later for exactly the reasons you state, nice and quiet so as not to spook neighbours or other game.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
green,

You've already discounted my choice; the 22 Hornet.

I use a somewhat reduced load in 22 Hornet of 5 grs. Unique & a 45 gr. copper-clad lead bullet that is pretty unobtrusive but still gets the job done.

Since that's out - I'd say you need to start looking at either the 17, 20 or .221 Remington Fireball.

+1 My choice as well. The Hornet's great, never known it be controversial. But if you aren't interested in it the others Gerry mentioned are good as well and I would also recommend the .222 and .223 or even the .17 Rem.

quote:

A friend told me the 6 mm and 25 cal's sound like a atom bomb has detonated beside you, too bad that bore size looked like it would be great for coyotes.

I like to reload so that eliminates the new rimfire cartridges.

Too bad your friend generalized so broadly and ruined it for you!
I recently loaded some 100 grain bullets for my 7 year olds 6.5 Swede (25 grains of IMR-4895) a very nice quiet load as far as I'm concerned, also if a 7 year old can shooti it I'm sure you'll find it pleasant. Any .243, 6mm, 250/3000, .257 Roberts or 6.5 Swede or the like can be reduced if you like to reload, Besides when you are not shooting "locally" you can shoot full power stuff and it will feel like a second rifle.
Just my opinion your mileage may vary.

quote:

I want to get my first centerfire small bore rifle and I want to know which cartridge would be the quietest.
My groundhog/coyote hunting would be on farm land but near homes so don't want to piss off locals.

17 Remington. LOL, There is no quietest one. They’re all loud.

Armalite AR-50

quote:

Originally posted by Dark Continent:

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
green,

You've already discounted my choice; the 22 Hornet.

I use a somewhat reduced load in 22 Hornet of 5 grs. Unique & a 45 gr. copper-clad lead bullet that is pretty unobtrusive but still gets the job done.

Since that's out - I'd say you need to start looking at either the 17, 20 or .221 Remington Fireball.

+1 My choice as well. The Hornet's great, never known it be controversial. But if you aren't interested in it the others Gerry mentioned are good as well and I would also recommend the .222 and .223 or even the .17 Rem.

Times 2.
CZ 527 Hornet, a jug of Lil'Gun and a box of 40 grain V-Max's.

22 hornet k

quote:

Originally posted by Dark Continent:

+1 My choice as well. The Hornet's great, never known it be controversial. .....

22 Hornet would have been my 1st chioce, too. Maybe reamed to a "K". This is the first time I've ever heard of "50-50 good-bad accuracy issue" referring to a 22 hornet

338 Win Mag...

A BR or PPC in 6mm diameter w/1:8 twist to stabilize the heavies & push the lights to your acceptable noise level.

20 Mink or 20 Squirrel.

See www.saubier.com

quote:

Times 2.
CZ 527 Hornet, a jug of Lil'Gun and a box of 40 grain V-Max's.

mountie,

Yo Budda - those components make into some of the best 22 Hornet (K-Hornet also) receipes ..... try the 33 gr. Hornady V-Max's, too!

Code-4,

quote:

A .218 Bee in a Ruger No.1

Also a good, (Out-the-Box thinking) potential candidate!

I would say my 22-250 shooting a 70gr bullet

The .22 Hornet would be my 1st choice.
1 real effective round I've used near farms is a 6.5x55 loaded w/ 135gr GC cast lead at about 2000fps. Shoots well out to 150 yards. real quiet.

The .22LR makes the least noise especially when fitted with a suppressor. Deadly too!Ammo is also very cheap. In centerfire I would go for a CZ 527 Varmint in .22 Hornet and use reduced loads. Definately would attach a suppressor.

The 22 Hornet would be and is my choice besides my suppressed 22 LR and .223 (yes I could thread the hornet and suppress it with the same suppressor, I just choose not to). The accuracy issue usually comes from someone shooting .224 bullets in an old .223 bore hornet. Now they are all .224 so the CZ or ruger would be great. I use a Sako 22 Hornet and love it.

Matthew

Anyone played with a 17 fireball? I havent but assume it is similar to a 17 rem.

Velocity and more powder make more noise. As a former Ruger rifle fan I would guess that a bunch of the poor shooting Hornets were the 77/22 hornet rifles. Neat rifles, but alot of them would not group worth a crap. A Hornet with a 50 grain spsx or tnt will splat them with ease and be fairly quiet doing so.

In addition to the round consider the rifle. I was at the range next to a guy shooting an AR in .223 that sounded like a cannon. Same for the guy with the .45ACP. I nice long barrel bolt action rifle may helo to some extent.

Try to find a 218 Bee in a Ruger #1.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Try to find a 218 Bee in a Ruger #1.

I have one, and now that you mention it, it is pretty quite.

quote:

Velocity and more powder make more noise.

There's no way around this. Burn more powder and you get more noise. For what you are describing the Hornet is perfect unless you are taking greater than 150 yard shots. Others have treated the accuracy issue. Try one, you will like it.

LWD

I would seriously consider a .221 fireball or a .17 remington.

That said, since you've already indicated that you're a dedicated reloader, why not just buy a .223 and use reduced loads? It seems so much easier than all the other choices.

quote:

The hornet is too controversial, I read about 50% of hornet owner think they group great the other half claims they can't group at all or consistently.
With my luck I'd get a lemon rifle so I'd like to steer clear of the hornet.

HMMM!!! Always thought of the Hornet as an inherently accurate cartridge.

If I were you...a Hornet is exactly what I wold get!

I sold a Ruger bolt rifle (laminated stock, Target Gray metal) to a friend, and we met at my range to tune it up last weekend. With a 35gr V-Max and Lil Gun, my last group of 3 shots at 100 yards was .185. If you're looking for better than that, you need a 22-pound bench rifle!

Dude, your choice is "the controversial hornet"

You like reloading--so take up bullet casting as well and get a .222 I have found the 58 grain RCBS cast bullets shoot very good in .222. Cast bullets being softer, reduce pressure and noise. You do have the expense of start up, but my casting equipment has paid for itself many times over. Some areas folks buy wheel weights, but I've been lucky and have gotten them free. They make great bullets and work very good on jackrabits. See no reason they would not be the ticket on coyotes and ground hogs.

Have you cake and eat it too.

Buy a 243 win. PM Seafire for some Blue Dot loading data. Load it down and quiet for when you need it and load it up to it's potential when you have no worries about noise.

quote:

Originally posted by DocEd:
20 Mink or 20 Squirrel.

See www.saubier.com

Now yer talk'n Doc.
Easier still for a non wildcatter how bout the old reliable .17 Ackley Hornet?
Quite, accurate, very efficient and to top it all off near zero ricochets (added bonus).
20 grain V-Max at near 3,800 FPS with 12ish grain of powder, outstanding round! It was actually my "first" pick over the venerable old .22 Hornet but I didn't want the squabble.

NOT the 257 STW

Should have put this in my first post. I do not remember the first jacketed reloads I shot. They felt and sounded like the factory stuff. I still remember the first cast bullets I shot in my 30-06. One load was 4064 powder and bullet velocity around 2400 fps--felt and sounded about like 30-30. The second load I had that day was with Unique and the velocity down around 1600 fps. So little noise and recoil I thought I had a missfire. You could probably accomplish the goal you seek even with a larger bored rifle using cast bullets.

Most of the people I know that had the bad 77/22 were older ones, possibly when barrel quality was an issue. They are neat looking guns.

Easier still for a non wildcatter how bout the old reliable .17 Ackley Hornet?
Quite, accurate, very efficient and to top it all off near zero ricochets (added bonus).
20 grain V-Max at near 3,800 FPS with 12ish grain of powder, outstanding round! It was actually my "first" pick over the venerable old .22 Hornet but I didn't want the squabble.

I am looking to obtain a battery of prairie dog guns and want a quiet .17, .20. or .22 cal. rifle. I'd like to get the .17 Ackley Hornet, but brass seems to be non-existent. Yes, I could get .22 Hornet brass and neck them down, but doing 1000 rounds will take more time than I have.

1. Does anyone have a source for this brass?

Failing that

2. Is a .17 Fireball loaded down a bit quiet enough for dogs at <150-yards?

I don't read much about them on here, but there are some 19 caliber wildcats from James Calhoun that might fit the bill as well. One of them is based on the 30 Carbine case.
The bottom line, the more powder you burn the louder the report will be. The same applies for the barrel length, shorter = louder.
The hornet does seem like the most viable option though.

As popular as the .17 Ackley Hornet is it is still a wildcat and as such the cases need to be formed from .22 Hornet cases. Most of us find a fireform load, load the cases with it and go form the cases smackin rats.
As to formed cases Todd Kindler at "The Woodchuck Den" does custom forming. I'll try to post a link but I'm seriously computer challenged so if it fails Google "The Woodchuck Den", go to the catalog and Custom formed brass is on page three.

The woodchuck Den.

Keep in mind Todd's gig is a one man show so it isn't like ordering from Midway but he's probably forgotten more about sub .22 calibers that most guy's will ever know. He can help ya a lot with necessary stuff and info as well.

As to the .17 Fireball and noise it is certainly more quiet than a good number of rounds out there but with it on the .221 parent case as opposed to a .17 Ackley Hornet on the Hornet case, the .17 Ackley will win the lower decibel level contest hands down.
The .17 Ackley will have to be built for ya however as opposed to just purchasing the .17 Fireball across the counter.
There's a lot to be said for the small calibers for the purpose described (and others). They might be small in caliber, but they are "HUGE" in fun factor .

As to this question;
"Quote" 2. Is a .17 Fireball loaded down a bit quiet enough for dogs at 150-yards? "Quote"

I'm not sure how quiet ya need it but my wife popped this little p-doggie at a titch over 325 yards with a .17 MachIV which is an absolute ballistic twin of the .17 Fireball. This is in no way an unusual shot, the round is completely capable of this kinda performance and more, consistently!



This rock chuck was peering over a rock at about 200 yards when I shot him with a .17 Fireball and factory ammo I was burning up to get brass.



It's an amazingly efficient little round (that's an entrance wound by the way, he was jelly inside!), DRT obviously.
If I were going to load it down I'd take a look at the new IMR Trail Boss powder. Designed for cowboy action you can load a safely reduced load with excellent load density (read, quiet ).

+1
I with montdout on the 17 Mach IV or 17 Fireball.
The 17 Fireball is a factory round.
They are reasonably quiet.
They are not as wind sensitive as some claim. They will not have the bullet "blowup" if it hits a blade of grass. Nor any of the other 17 caliber myths.
AND to TOP IT OFF you can watch your hits in your rifle's scope. You shoot and watch the show at the same time, it doesn't get any better.

muck

Thank you all for you input on this subject, your posts have made be re think my decision to exclude the Hornet.

I'm looking into a Ruger rifle model KZZ/22-VHZ it's the 22 Hornet model.

I like the looks of it, the gray colour Ruger has applied to the receiver and barrel is very attractive and the lamiated stock is the same colour as my Winchester 1300 (don't laugh it looks and works good).

Ruger says this is stainless steel but I've never seen stainless this colour before so I think it must be some kind of coating applied over the metal.

I like that this rifle is a repeater, the rotary magazine sits flush with the bottom of the stock for good looks and carry.

I would like to know what the maximum cartridge overall length (COL) that will fit in this magazine?
Most hand loads seem to exceed the maximum S.A.A.M.I. COL 1.723".

I won't mind shooting it as a single shot if a particular load exceeds mag length but I like the option of loading up the mag.

Reading on the internet a lot of people have had no luck getting tight groups with this rifle and other brand rifles in this caliber so I know I'm taking a big chance with the caliber and the rifle.

I hope I don't draw a lemon but anything can be fixed just takes bags-O-money and finding someone who's not a quack gun doctor.