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| One of Us |
I'm just curious as to which bullet would be better for black bear. The speer grand slam 100 grain or the barnes 85 grain triple shock. My local store has these 2 bullets in stock. Instead of trying both to see which gives better accuracy, I'd like to buy which ever one would be better suited for the job and hope I get decent accuracy with it. I have 3 rifles and the 243 win is the one that I haven't killed anything with. That's the reason for the small caliber. Thanks. | ||
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| one of us |
Do the right thing and use a larger gun. The .243 IS NOT a bear gun. Founder....the OTPG | |||
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| one of us |
You never know. He might plan on shooting a bear cub. | |||
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One of Us |
I have to agree with Strut, most shots at bears are under 100 yds, big & slower is better than little & fast If you are determined to use your 243, check out this article on SD http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd_beginners.htm Jim fur, feathers, & meat in the freezer  "Pass it on to your kids" | |||
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| One of Us |
When I hunted in Minnesota back in 77, the guides had no problem with a .243. They would not talk to you about a 30-30. I figure they should know. | |||
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| One of Us |
What are your other 2 rifles chamberd for ? I mean if you have a .308 or an 06, thats a better brear round by miles. I understand you want to have a kill with your .243 , But here in oregon where are bears don't really get to big, A guy recently emptied his 44 mag revolver into a blck and and got chewed up prety good. probably would be dead if his buddies Had not goten to him and shot the bear a bunch more times. (I bet they were all using hollow points). I have about 15 rifles, and I think for our local black bears I would go with a .308. The guy who says the minnesota guys did,nt like the 30/30 were I bet using 150 grain hollow points. Use a 170 grain partition and I bet they would like a 30/30 a bunch better. watched a big elk go down to 30/30 with that load not to many years ago. Nothing smaller than a .260 makes much sence to me. But if you crave excitment . ...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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| One of Us |
My other calibers are a 338 win and a 270 win. I guess it would probably be smarter to use the 270. I figured the 243 would be ok for black bear, but I'm somewhat new to hunting. I've only taken 2 animals. thanks. | |||
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| One of Us |
The .243 is for deer and smaller game. Show some respect for the animal you hunt and use an adequate caliber. NRA Life Endowment Member | |||
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| One of Us |
I've seen little 150 lb. Oregon Black Bear take 2 hit's with a .25-06 with 120 gr. bullets, and a even smaller one in Montana take 4 hits with a .270 at about 50 yards. Both acted as though they were untouched and ambled off. The first was tracked later with a friends bear dogs for 2 miles before it was treed and killed. The second backed up into a hollow in the base of a burned out tree, and we put the muzzel of the rifle almost against it's forhead and touched it off. Both Bears could have done a lot of damage if they would have wanted to before finaly being put down. So my question would be: Which bullet do YOU want to use in your .243? | |||
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| One of Us |
Do yourself and your guide a favor and use the .338. It's a bang-up bear cartridge. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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One of Us |
Black bear are not that difficult to kill if the bullet is placed in the vital organs. The problem comes when they do not die right there and have to be tracked. Bigger is better not only because of more tissue damage but also because there is a greater chance of a blood trail for tracking. The thick fat and fur on bear often plug up wounds and limit blood trails. With a bigger hole, more impact, more tissue damage, more blood - a bigger caliber is better. Most I have spoken with recommend 30 cal as a minimum with 35 up to 45 cal recommended by some guides. One I spoke with in Maine recommended a 45-70 for the reasons cited above. "Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult." | |||
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My BIL shot a blacky up here in CDA about 3 years ago with his 25-06...dropped it dead. His hunting partner shot a bit bigger bear, not much bigger, with a .300 Wby mag, and had to shoot it 2 more times to finish it off! | |||
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| one of us |
I'd use a 243 if it was all I had. You have better choices at hand. I've only shot three smallish bears but they all ran off a ways. I wouldn't care to be beating the mtn laurel for a wounded bear with just a 243 in my hand. | |||
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| One of Us |
I would prefer the 338 if it was an option, but I dont think I would have a problem shooting a bear with a 243, as long as its a good 200 yard shot! Of the options you listed I would use the TSX and make sure to take a few follow up shots if possible. | |||
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I have no experience shooting black bear so I am forced to consider what I would use on a different big game hunt, with the game weighing 350-450 lbs. When considering this aspect, I would not use my 243. I am certain it will do the job but I don't want to take a chance on wounding and being forced to follow up a failed shot on a wounded 450 lb. very pissed bear. Just my thoughts... | |||
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| one of us |
Just what I was thinkin'. Maybe the Minnesota guides did drop every bear with a .243. The guy at the slaughterhouse drops 1800 steers with a .22LR every time. It just depends on your circumstances. If you're hunting over bait and can take a head-shot then the .243 oughta be fine. If you have a very real chance at taking a quartering shot at a BIG bear..........you'll be glad you were using the .338. Founder....the OTPG | |||
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| One of Us |
Gotta laugh when folks show up with BIG guns for bear. No trick in killing one, put the slug in the right spot and the bear will die. Black bear die easy. | |||
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| One of Us |
I've put a halt on the idea of the 243 for black bear. Dumb idea, I guess. Hopefully I'll get drawn for mule deer next year and use the 243 for that. What bullet for the 243 win, though? Will the barnes 85 grain TSX out penetrate and expand as well as the 100 grain grand slam and the 100 grain nosler partition. I have the partition loaded, but want to load another good premium bullet to see if I can get better accuracy. My choices are the barnes TSX and the Speer grand slam. I was told to use 100 grain bullets in the 243 for deer, but I was also told that the lighter weight TSX compare similar to heavier weighted lead bullets. | |||
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| one of us |
Founder....the OTPG | |||
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| One of Us |
Drill the shoulders with a TSX and you'll have a dead critter. | |||
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One of Us |
This is the answer you're looking for. An 85 grain Barnes TSX will out penetrate 1 180 C & C out of a 308, and go straighter once either hits bone. The probability of a better hole in with the 30 caliber is the only reason to go there. TSX bullets in either the 270 or the 338 will be the best choice since they are far and away more likely to give you two holes. I have seen bears shot with a .410 shotgun and fine shot out of a truck window, and most of the usual deer rifles. If it came time to shoot a bear with a .243 it will do the job just fine, but if you have a choice take a bigger gun. The .270 is plenty enough bigger. | |||
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Not really. While I personally do not like a 243, I can promise you it will kill black bears just fine. I started a thread this past spring when a friend of mine went back to New Brunswick with his girlfriend. This was her first hunt ever. She took his 243 and some 95 btips I loaded for him back in 2005 for our antelope hunt. This is a baited hunt. She dumped a 300+ pound black bear at bow range with this rifle. I've killed less than 10 black bears with archery and rifle and I will tell you that they seem to die quicker than deer or equally anyway. I've used 338s with 225 ABs (totally unnecessary), 30.06 with 180 Sciroccos, and a Mathews Solocam bow. I guess, just b/c of the long hair on a black bear, I'd opt for the 270 over the 243 for the longer bullet and larger diameter. For what it's worth, all of my Sciroccos past through. The 338 Accubonds did not and they were complete overkill. I used the outfitter's rifle so I didn't have to mess with bringing my own rifle. Despite previous opinions, the 243 IS a black bear gun, even though it's not one I'd use. I just know that they will work. As for bullets. I love TSX, and TTSX bullets. However, there seems to be agreement among most Barnes users that the smaller the diameter bullet and hollow point, the harder it is for them to open. I personally have never witnessed this, but the smallest diameter TSX I've used was in a 270. So, I'd opt for a Partition and never look back. I used to recommend the TSX in 6mm, but it seems to be a bit of a gamble. I WOULD, HOWEVER, RECOMMEND THE 80 GRAIN TIPPED TSX!!! COMING IN 2009: Tipped TSX in 6mm, 80 grain Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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| One of Us |
That .270 will do fine. I've taken a few bears with the .270 before, never had a problem. Used factory Federal ammo with 150gr partitions, they make nice holes and the bears are pretty much DRT with a good shot. I just don't trust the .243 with an animal that could suddenly decide you'd make for a lovely breakfast. Little extra weight and diameter will go a long way towards anchoring a black bear. .338 is way more than you need in all practicality, but would still be plenty fine if you were so inclined. ________  "...And on the 8th day, God created beer so those crazy Canadians wouldn't take over the world..." | |||
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I'd go with the Grand Slam. | |||
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The .243 with the grand slam will kill a black bear, and it wasn't stupid to ask the question (a lot of black bears have been killed with .243s and 30-30s, etc). But as others have said your other two larger calibers would probably be better. Good luck on your hunt! Red C. Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion. | |||
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I agree with Strut10. Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says. When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like! Do that with your optics. | |||
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| One of Us |
i.ve seen far too many big bear killed with an arrow( of course, a well placed shot) to say a .243 won't work or is inadequite. same as for dear...that said, i wouldn't choose it simply because things don't always go the way you expect them to. it's confidence in your shooting, in control under excited conditions and knowledge of the bear's anatomy in any position and size that would make the .243 be considered a "bear gun". if you're confident in those factors and calm under the excitment of a big game kill it will get the job done as well as any gun around. as said, they aren't especially hard to put down, i personally think deer are many times more resiliant to a gunshot shot than a bear. if your bear is comming in to bait the odds are in the .243's favour, just be patient and pick your shot. if you get busted, and the bear bolts, don't try to gun it down thinking the gun has all sorts of "knock-down power", becuase it doesn't. pick a bullet designed for the distance you intend to shoot, rather than just being "heavily constructed for larger game". just remember what in the chamber if you see one at a distance. the latter two statements are primarily responsible for most everyone's negativity towards the .243 as a bear, and for that matter, a deer gun. s favour | |||
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| One of Us |
The 243 is NOT a bear gun. Sure it will kill a bear, but its NOT the gun to use. Black bears are very tough animals. You can read more about Black bears on the Big-game Species database on huntersnetworks, it has a listing of all the Big-game animals of the world listed by areas they can be hunted! | |||
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| one of us |
If I had a 243 in my hands and had to kill a bear we would have a dead bear. That said. I would use something bigger most of them I shot have been with 30 calibers. The last one was with my 416 Taylor. Get some thing bigger and be better off. | |||
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| One of Us |
I've got a 243 and a 270 and a 25-06 in between. I reload and use hornady interlock boattails for all 3 in the biggest bullet available. So in 243 its 100 grain and 270 its 140 grain. The 270 got me a nice 6x6 bull elk so it should take care of a black bear. I didn't feel under gunned with the elk. | |||
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| one of us |
Yes it will take Blackies..but it needs to be fed premium bullets like the TSX or Partitions if you want the best out of the 243 for medium game. | |||
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| One of Us |
I've decided to go with the 270 win for the black bear. Is the nosler accubond 140 grain bullet sufficient? | |||
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| one of us |
Consider this story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/...AR2005102402024.html By Nelson Hernandez Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, October 25, 2005; Page B03 MOUNT NEBO, Md., Oct. 24 -- There's a new hunting legend in the mountains of Western Maryland. Born to the woods, she's 4 1/2 feet tall and 8 years old, with a shock of light brown hair and a steady trigger finger that put two bullets into a black bear's chest cavity Monday, according to her and her father and granduncle, who were hunting with her. State officials backed the claim by Sierra Stiles and credited her with the first kill of Maryland's second bear season since hunting the animals resumed after a half-century ban. Sierra Stiles,8, put two bullets into a black bear's chest cavity Monday in Western Maryland, according to her and her father and granduncle, who were hunting with her. Maryland Department of Natural Resources officials, waiting to take measurements and tissue samples from the bears at a wildlife management center here, shook their heads in amazement at the news that the first hunter to bag a bear was a third-grade girl from Kitzmiller, on Maryland's border with West Virginia. Sierra recounted here how she shot the 211-pound bear from 50 yards away with her .243-caliber rifle. "I was scared," she said, then paused for dramatic emphasis. "Because bears will eat anything!" "How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?" | |||
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One of Us |
I have to agree with many of the postings in that whereas it may be possible to kill a black bear with a 243 I do not think that it is a good idea to try. If you cannot get a larger rifle to use or are convinced that you for some reason are compelled to use this caliber go with the Grand Slams. Good luck..... Best of all he loved the Fall.... E. Hemingway | |||
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243 on a bear? definatley. not by choice.would rather use my 280 rem or 7mmwsm,338 win. use a really good quality bullet over 80 grains and get close(under 150). but would rather use bigger. | |||
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This is like most other "Is my pipsqueak gun adequate for Mastadon?" inquiries in terms of the answers given. The question is a legitimate one, though. In truth, like every other adequacy question, it depends on who is using the tool, how, and under what circumstances. It is not always sufficient for the hunter/huntress to kill the bear. One also has to find it and bring it to bag, if they are a sportsperson. With a Fall pre-hibernation bear in thick cover, a .243 MAY not leave an edequate blood trail to make a bear easy to find if the shot does not kill DRT. The loose skin and thick fat sometimes act to minimize blood loss or even staunch it completely . Some folks also tend to shoot them in the butt or the guts. In those circumstances, bigger, more powerful rifles may be desirable. As to guides not liking to have their bears hunted with .30-30s, I think that may sometimes be more because of the rifles they are chambered in than inadequacy of the cartridge. Often .30-30 rifles are not well kept or well sighted-in, and may not be accurate enough in the hands of many users (especially with open sights) to be preferred for shots of 100 yards or more in timber. In such circumstances, I too might prefer the hunter to have even a .243 as an alternative. But, up to 50 yards over a bait, honestly I'd rather him/her use a .30-30 with either 150 or 170 grain bullets. | |||
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| one of us |
Canuck makes a very valid point on "is 'such & such' enough gun?" questions. A majority of it is circumstantial or situational. Under 50 yards........over bait...... the .243 is probably going to do the trick for you every time. I made my original post (that the .243 IS NOT a bear gun) from the P.O.V. of a Pennsylvania bear hunter. Here in PA, all of our bear hunting is done via organized drives. This method generates a lot of shots at moving bears and many times at way less than perfect angles. Add to that the fact that you never know when you may be facing a 600 or 800 pound bruin and the .243 is DEFINITELY out. Founder....the OTPG | |||
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If you go after bear with a 243 you might still have not harvested any game with that firearm. I prefer .30, but when gunning for bear I take the .338. the 243 might be adequate on an average bear standing still, where you have the opputunity to place a perfect shot, but I would always go up in caliber. I also like round nose heavy bullets 180g and up. If it's average size bear you're after (175 - 225 lbs) the 243 might work with a quality bullet, but definately not my choice. I let the average bears walk, I'm now looking for a big bear, so I need to be properly prepared for any situation and I do not feel the 243 is the answer. | |||
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| One of Us |
How many Penn State bears ever got that big? | |||
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