with all the interest Seen on this forum for 6.5s, why isn't the market place selling these? The .260 is in low to modest demand but other than that the 6.5s it seems to enjoy only an eletest attraction.
In the 60s I was playing with the 6.5 Carcano, Arasaka , 6.5 X 55 and my 6.5x .284 wildcat. The advent of the .264 Mag seemed to be the door opener to a marketable 6.5. NEVER HAPPENED!
Today we seem to have a handful of 6.5 self proclaimed officianatos, but in the overall picture are their pontifications really going to make any difference or change things? Not in this life time I think! As long as we let ourselves be lead by the nose by marketeers forget it. Oh! the 6.5 is a great over all caliber for the lower 48, but not the .260 compromise POS. roger

How RIGHT you are Roger! I was shooting a 264 Mag back in 63 and people would ask what in the H@@L a 264 was? I alos was shooting the [UHHH]260[?] when it was 263 Express , courtesy of Mr Ken Waters. In fact one of my rifles still has the barrel marked 263 Express and probably always will. Hell! I was in the office of J Cuthbert many years ago when Jim Carmichel was there getting reamers made for two "ideas" of HIS for wildcat 6.5s. One a 22-250 necked to 6.5 and the other a 243 case. Still have a letter I got from an old employee where he literally stole the design from Waters.
I have always liked the game killing quality of the long-slender 6.5s and always will. Not my idea of a good time in a bad situation but if it was all I hasd? Oh Well! It`d work.
Aloha, Mark

Roger,

6.5mm is like 8mm, it never really caught on in the US. The 41 Remington Magnum is also a cartridge with a "cult" following. Those who truly appreciate the "product greater than the sum" terminal balistics of those rounds based on 6.5mm are definately in the know, but alas, the fact remains 6.5mm is not going to put a dent in the sales of .30 cal in the US.

BTW - I have a POS .260 Rem....fine little round, and I'm not elitist, just "refined"

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
with all the interest Seen on this forum for 6.5s, why isn't the market place selling these? roger

Simply because the typical poster on these forums does not really represent the general buying public.

The general buying public is not posting here and doesn't want to. These folks just go deer hunting on opening morning and drink beer the rest of the season.

I love my 264 Win Mag. It's a keeper.

Roger - interesting thread topic.

I don't have a real clue why the 6.5 never took off. I could guess, and/or pontificate, but possibly others will do plenty of that. You don't need my two-bits worth of opinion there.

I CAN tell you why I didn't keep my M70 Westerner .264 Mag which I bought when they became available. MINE was a clunky rifle! Too long, too heavy, and generally unhandy for a recently disabled soldier tromping the coast ranges of Cal-if-orn-I-A at the time. It was also about as accurate as a fungo ball and bat set, so there was no advantage to carrying it.

I had numerous of the 6.5 M/S carbines and rifles, and a wildcat 6.5 Sharpe & Hart, and a passel of the 6.5x55 Swedes.

Of that ilk, the only ones I ever kept were the 6.5x53-Rs (half a dozen or so) because they were very nicely built and I appreciated the craftsmanship. Almost all mine were fitted up by the better of the English makers.

I also did very much like a home-sporterized M94 Swede carbine I got from a fellow named Bob Zielinski when I first moved to Oregon in '61, but traded it off for something else shortly after I arrived in Edmonchuk in 1968.

Now I still love the 6.5x53-R (a rimmed version of the 6.5 otherwise pretty much identical to the 6.5 M/S). Have a nice one in a 28" Hart barreled Ruger No. 1 put together for me by my old buddy, the late Paul Marquart.

I HAVE now bought a .260 Rem reamer and am going to assemble one of those as soon as my health permits and if I can figure out which action I want to put it on. Also have bought a 6.5x57 reamer and AM going to put one of those on a Brno action I have on hand.

Sure wish life was going to be about three times as long as it will be, so I could spend 150 years or so more putting together and shooting all the rifles I'd like to have...


Best wishes, friend,

AC

The only common thing these ctgs have is a link to just what you called it "6.5mm". The American public has never had any love for anything with a metric designation. Yes they are called by other names but have not done as well. Even the 7mms have not done as well as the beloved 22 caliber, 25 caliber, 270 caliber, and 30 caliber designations. I have a couple of 260s and just think they are great.

I am becoming a convert to the 6.5 after shooting a friends 6.5x55. I just can't decide which one to choose i am leaning towards a 6.5\06

I have couple, X55 and X57. They just flat work. I would be confident with correct bullets up to Elk with either. Does not kick the S*** of of you is very very accurate and drops game way more than the paper ballistics would seem. Got rid of my 06, 7mm mag. Did not see what they could do that the 6.5's would not. I have a hord of old Barnes 165g solids just in case I feel the need for a Moose or an errant bear. I don't understand why they have are not more popular, not much to dislike.

I just put a new upper on my Colt Sporter (AR-25) in 6.5 Grendel. Last weekend I shot one box of commercial ammo, 20 rounds of match reloads, and fired 100 rounds fireforming 7.62x39 brass to the 6.5 Grendel. It's a pussycat to shoot. I fired all the ammo on one target and had a 1.25" hole in the target with two flyers.

Unfortunately, a large percentage of the buying public has little interest or knowledge in what they are even shooting.

A typical scenario is a one-weekend-a-year hunter going in to Wal-Mart, Academy or the like and saying: "Give me a box of .270s" with no regard to brand, bullet weight, style -- or the fact that there are more than one "270s" available.

It is that type of individual the major companies must cater to.

I think we put a handle on it; but it would nice to be able to say********* 6.5 and it's alive*********! Can't stop thinking about that girl and her still. roger

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
The only common thing these ctgs have is a link to just what you called it "6.5mm". The American public has never had any love for anything with a metric designation. Yes they are called by other names but have not done as well. Even the 7mms have not done as well as the beloved 22 caliber, 25 caliber, 270 caliber, and 30 caliber designations. I have a couple of 260s and just think they are great.

I think that cartridge availability in the US has more to do with their adoption by the US military. Your most popular read like a who's who list in military cartridge design. 30-06, 308, 223, 45-70, 45ACP, 9mm nato.

The 6.5 mm is most of southern europe's choice for an all around rifle, those that don't like the swede have a love affair with the 7 mauser, both good cartridges indeed. Here, it's the -06 and whats not to like about any of them. Many paths to the same destination.

John

I think I`ll throw in one more thing. If, when all those beautiful Swede 94s and 96s came floating in way back when---had there been another alternative to the "King Norma" ammo at 30.00 a box maybe like old Green and Yellow in 140? Might have been a WHOLE lot more converts than there were. Just my .02
Aloha, Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Bohica:
had there been another alternative to the "King Norma" ammo at 30.00

Maybe my memory is really going south, but I do believe when I used to hunt with my M-94 carbine back in the very early 60's, Norma ammo was $10 per box or less where I used to buy it (Micro-Sight). That was at least two or three times the price of Remchester ammo, but in those days when I was a hunter not an accuracy nut, 40 rounds was a several year supply in the Oregon woods.

And I was a reloader so the brass was certainly good for at least 5-10 reloads each with the hunting pressures my ammo ran.

In my own instance, I suspect all the new calibers the factories were turning out in a deluge (and still are) actually killed my interest in lots of rounds that would have otherwise been successful. I mean, how many rifles is the average hunting guy gonna own?

We here might have somewhere between 20 and 200 in our vaults, but the average Joe probably does not want or have more than 3 or 4. So, if he has a .22, something in a lever gun, a bolt action .270 or .30-06, and one magnum, where does that leave the 6.5's and lots of others?

Just a few random thoughts here.
I don't own anything in 6.5 and probably never will, at least that's true for today. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?
One of the guys posting on another Forum shot a Washington Buck at 507 yards a few years ago with a 260 Rem. Due to the rugged terrain, that was as close as he could get. One shot, one dead Deer. That told me the 260 is VERY adequate for killing Deer. That shot didn't propel me to the gun store in search of a 260. But, it did impress the hell out of me.
Why am I not going to buy into 6.5 chamberings? Several years ago I placed an arbitrary limit on what calibers I'd own, and the 260 is one that I won't buy, along with 6mm's, and anything less than 22 caliber, or most rifles over 7mm; although I did buy a Rem 722 in 308. I bought that as a collector, not a shooter. My arsenal is primarily made up of 22's, 25's and 7mm's. So, I only have bullets on the shelf in those three calibers.
Why didn't the 6.5's take off in America? And, why isn't Remington chambering rifles in 260 today? It has to be money. Those 6.5's are not selling to the general public where their sales come from. Yes, Marketeers are dictating what we buy, and always will. If someone wants a 6.5, I would think that Remington's Custom Shop could provide one for him. But, for rifles on the rack at gun stores, the usual suspects are the ones that salesman can sell. Occasionally a large distributor will have someone like Remington make up a special build just for him, that could very well be a 6.5. Then, the distributor has the responsibility of doing the marketing for that odd build.
As far as the metric thing goes, 7mm's have been at the pinnacle of my rifle arch. My first custom rifle was a 7mm Ackley Magnum built in 1957, right after graduating from college. I have no aversion to the metric thing, as an individual. Maybe others are turned off by metric chamberings. Also, I'm not carrying the cross for or against 6.5's.
However, I DO like looking at those old Swedish 6.5's. Someday? Maybe?

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
with all the interest Seen on this forum for 6.5s, why isn't the market place selling these? roger

As much as they are my favorites and as much as I love them (and have numerous, perhaps even --gasp--too many-- varieties)--
its really pretty simple--

they ain't 'merican.

30-06
30-30
308
270
243
223

Now-- them there--- they's 'merican

==AND they have a heck of an economic head start.

The 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor, are making in-roads slowly ,more-so with Match rifles than the public at large.

As to the Grendel, great round, but, remember military politics gave us the M-16 at a time when a better choice was available and for now at least the 6.8 SPC has a political head start.

(Not to mention there have been some REAL pressure issues with the Grendel's case among reloaders--not necessarily the rounds fault---just sayin'.

Actually the 7x57 ,8x57,303,really hang around in the US due to mass importation and nostalgia.
Fine rounds all, but not nearly as much as the--

'merican-- rounds in the first paragraph above.

The 375 has developed such a world-wide following and reputation in fact and fiction --well in a way it built its own following.

As to all the new magnums, though they may have merit, time and economics will tell, as they say.

(The AK round falls into a different category--
massive world wide production resulting in (initially)cheap access have brought it into household familiarity .)

As to the 264 v 7mag bout, bad press for one and great press for another had a lot to do with it. (Let's not get into bullet weights and twists ala 6mm and 243 )

Various 6.5 Swede M96s got me interested in the round. It is a very fine deer killer, and much more flexible than the .25s thanks to the wide range of available bullet weights. Had one of the bull-barreled Savages several years back in .260, and foolishly swapped it off, then had the pants beat off me by the new owner with the very same gun in a 600-yard match.
I am sorry that Remington lost interest in the .260, as it is a much better cartridge for new hunters than the .243 thanks to its versatility.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
The .260 is in low to modest demand but other than that the 6.5s it seems to enjoy only an eletest attraction.

ele-test??? Does this have something to do with shooting jumbos with a 6.5mm?

If you mean elitist, then I'm in that company having acquired a 6.5mm X 284 Norma just last year. But I certainly don't consider myself a snob or superior to those who choose a different caliber, whether lesser or greater. I must not be reading the posts you do Roger, for I don't see one bit of 'elitist attraction' at all.

And if you're pointing fingers towards that fella in Texas who shoots so many hogs with his 6.5 Bulberry, that's not brag, it's fact!

quote:

A typical scenario is a one-weekend-a-year hunter going in to Wal-Mart, Academy or the like and saying: "Give me a box of .270s" with no regard to brand, bullet weight, style -- or the fact that there are more than one "270s" available.

Isn't that true! And the store clerks aren't any better. I was once in Academy when I heard the clerk tell a customer he could shoot .243 in his 6mm Rem because they were both the same diameter........

LWD

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:

I must not be reading the posts you do Roger, for I don't see one bit of 'elitist attraction' at all.
OH MY! I GUESS I JUST SCREWED UP AGAIN! THANK YOU FOR THE SPELLING LESSON.
And if you're pointing fingers towards that fella in Texas who shoots so many hogs with his 6.5 Bulberry, that's not brag, it's fact!

DON'T KNOW OF THE TEXAS HOG GUY! SORRY. roger

Roger, I must be one of those 6.5 elitists too, since I have two 6.5x55s, and a 6.5 Grendel and 260 in the works. Humm I hope that's an honor. Certainly, I'm not the once a week annually hunter, and seldom shop at walmart.

KB

Howdy,
I am another 6.5mm fan, although I did not start out that way, my first loves were 7x57mm and .30-06. Then I met my first 6.5-06, and I've been a 6.5mm freak ever since. Sure, reading all the old African hunter stories I could find probably influenced me too, but my first 6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer sealed my doom as a 6.5mm lover. Now I have one of each of the rifles made in 6.5x54mm, as well as 6.5x55mm, 6.5x57mm, and .260 Remington. Sold off my last 6.5-06 to a shooter who just craved that caliber for Antelope. Today the 6.5s are my primary "go to" rifles for deer hunting, and should be my "light rifle" for Africa, but I just cannot leave the .30-06 behind. In reality, there's not a whit of difference between the four 6.5mms I use, but variety, that is the spice of life.
LLS

For the record ,I think the .260 is an excellent deer cartridge with th 120 gr. primo bullet. It,however , does not give justice to the heavier bullets as does the 6.5X55 and 6.5 X 57; therefore not as adequate in design. Was more of an attempt to serve marketing rather than the rifle man, JMHO.But a nice 6.5 just the same. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:

A typical scenario is a one-weekend-a-year hunter going in to Wal-Mart, Academy or the like and saying: "Give me a box of .270s" with no regard to brand, bullet weight, style -- or the fact that there are more than one "270s" available.

It is that type of individual the major companies must cater to.

Good post. Some folk here call him Bubba!

quote:

Here, it's the -06 and whats not to like about any of them. Many paths to the same destination.

Most hunters in this country go into the woods massively overgunned for what they are hunting. A 3006 for whitetail is about three categories more gun than needed. A 6.5. 30-30, 32 Win, or at most a 7-08 would be more than what is needed. We have a fascination with velocity.

onefunzr2 wrote:

quote:

And if you're pointing fingers towards that fella in Texas who shoots so many hogs with his 6.5 Bulberry, that's not brag, it's fact!

Can you even kill something as tough as a hog with a 6.5 Bullberry Imp?

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Can you even kill something as tough as a hog with a 6.5 Bullberry Imp?

Apparently so, unless you're lying through your teeth about all the captions to those dead hog pics.

I still fail to see where all this 6.5mm elitist talk comes from. Perhaps Roger's just stirring the pot?

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Can you even kill something as tough as a hog with a 6.5 Bullberry Imp?

I still fail to see where all this 6.5mm elitist talk comes from. Perhaps Roger's just stirring the pot?

I really wasn't giving it any real effort but it seems I I managed to put a burr under at least one saddle. roger

quote:

Originally posted by JonP:

Most hunters in this country go into the woods massively overgunned for what they are hunting. A 3006 for whitetail is about three categories more gun than needed. A 6.5. 30-30, 32 Win, or at most a 7-08 would be more than what is needed. We have a fascination with velocity.

Let me stir the pot a bit more here.

That quote may be entirely true, but its not just in the woods; its also true on the prairies and in the high Sage.

There are still a lot of hunters out there who find the .30-30 quite adequate. Most of them, though are not "internet gun gurus"...they are pretty much unknown outside their own immediate families and cluster of close friends.

However, over the last 20-40 years there apppears to maybe have also developed a large group of publicly-posting, peer-pressure "authorities"
both in print and on the internet, who are advocates of carrying small weapons of mass destruction. Unfortunately for me I am not generous enough to always see them as suffering from a "fascination with velocity".

Depending on the context of their material I sometimes see them as one or more of:

1. "Power freaks"...those who need to be seen as having more power than everyone else, or

2. Those with a feeling (maybe justified, maybe not) of inadequacy...who like to flaunt a big powerful tool as a disguise for their own felt shortcomings. I feel bad for these folks, because they are probably good, capable people who have just been conned into feeling left behind by the same kind of social bullies they had to put up with in high school. These are the kind of folks that sellers of Viagra and other "male" drugs are also trying to con.

3. Those who are just plain lazy, and want to use a tool which absolves them of the responsibility to learn to actually hunt. Instead they learn part of the game...how to shoot...but try to substitute technology for all the rest.


4. Those who do not really understand hunting as a sport. They just can't really grasp that as a sport hunting is matching one's OWN wits, physical abilities, persistence, and respect for the opponent, against the animal(s) being sought. For these folks, there is never a really good hunt where they do not kill ...at least something. That's pretty sad. If you want to play the game as a true sport, you have to be willing to lose as well as enjoy winning.

No one needs a guide, a super weapon, a 4x4, or even a GPS to play the sport. Just a brain, a heart, a workable body, an adequate humane-killing tool (or maybe a camera), and the will to play.


The rest, unless one truly needs to kill to eat, is pretty much a "need" developed in them by marketing experts who just want to sell them things (whether goods or services) and get their money.

Oh well, that ought to get the flames roaring...

AC,

That posting is about a 10x.
I think U nailed it.
Kind of like guys who have to have a knife with an 8" blade to dress a Deer, ref one of U'r points.

The term Euro-snob calibers has been used by my buddies to discribe My 6.5x55's and 8x57's. Elitest is also a term I've heard. While they are hammering away w/ .270's and 30.06's at the range, my shoulder is just fine shooting a 6.5x55 all day. I get ragged on now when I bring a .308. My friends that do reload have picked up a 6.5x55 or 2 and other metric calibers. The caliber that gets the oddest looks is the 9.3x57.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
with all the interest Seen on this forum for 6.5s, why isn't the market place selling these? The .260 is in low to modest demand but other than that the 6.5s it seems to enjoy only an eletest (sic)
attraction.
In the 60s I was playing with the 6.5 Carcano, Arasaka , 6.5 X 55 and my 6.5x .284 wildcat. The advent of the .264 Mag seemed to be the door opener to a marketable 6.5. NEVER HAPPENED!
Today we seem to have a handful of 6.5 self proclaimed officianatos (sic) , but in the overall picture are their pontifications really going to make any difference or change things? Not in this life time I think! As long as we let ourselves be lead by the nose by marketeers forget it. Oh! the 6.5 is a great over all caliber for the lower 48, but not the .260 compromise POS . roger

You puke out all these red flag words, starting with the topic title, and when asked who the snob is that goes around with his nose up in the clouds because he uses a rifle in .264", you refuse to answer.

I'm no horsemen, but if there was a burr in my saddle, it would irritate the horse, not me!

Now Rog, what got the bee in yer bonnet?

I've scratched my 7mm itch and now it's time for my first 6.5.I'm building a 6.5RemMag on a ssBDL 7mmRSAUM platform,24" Pacnor and Bansner stock.If its done I'll be taking it on a sheep/caribou hunt in early September.If not the .280AI will go with me.I'm hopin' that it will be ready! Monashee

I am very interested in the 6.5 caliber, in fact my next rifle I build will be a 6.5-06 Imp. I'm going to set it up for long range, something like 600-1000 yards. I was watching an old fishing show a while back and he was asked why he never used live bait, and he said because he didn't have a live bait sponsor. To bad the 6.5 rem mag never took off.

quote:

and when asked who the snob is that goes around with his nose up in the clouds because he uses a rifle in .264",

I think ,Dave, it was you who choose to bring the word snob into this thread. Maybe you can interpert elitest to mean snob, but that was not my intent. There are folks that are superior in what they do but are down to earth nice people. I met quite a few when I was shooting competition ATA trap, and yes they were recognized as the elite.

Officianado was used as a recognized authority.

A pontif {ego miesters}( who pontificates ) can be an officianado who, at the drop of his hat ,lets you know how great his knowledge is and why you should listen to what he says. Yes we have a few of those on this forum.
However, the intent of the thread was meant to be more light hearted than it seems it is turning out to be and I refere to only you and me.
A bee in the bonnet referes generally to getting anoid and or angry. Dave that isn't the case.My blood pressure elivation is reserved for more serious matters.

To make an effort to put this in perspective the German term "Mox Nix" comes to mind. Have a great life roger

The 6.5 x55 is a pretty popular calibre in Australia. Capable of taking all but the biggest game : wild buffalo and scrub bulls.

Very user friendly.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

and when asked who the snob is that goes around with his nose up in the clouds because he uses a rifle in .264",

I think ,Dave, it was you who choose to bring the word snob into this thread. Maybe you can interpert elitest to mean snob, but that was not my intent.

Upon checking "elitist" in my Webster's New World Dictionary, it says see snob.

Mox nix? My father used to say, Mox nix nas (sp?)--Makes no difference.

quote:

A pontif {ego miesters}( who pontificates ) can be an officianado who, at the drop of his hat ,lets you know how great his knowledge is and why you should listen to what he says. Yes we have a few of those on this forum.

I must have missed the posts where those few elitists were boasting about .264's being above everything else. Got any links to help refresh my memory?

Just personal experience, but back in the 70's and 80's I bought and traded for 30 calibers for everything. They worked fine, but now it is .284, .277,.264 that interest me. My 260 just put down a 250 pound hog. It and my 7'08 are my go-to guns. Out in Wyoming for long range work, the 7 mag goes with me. If I get to Alaska, the 300 mag or bigger. But day in day out hunting ... the 260 and 7'08 are perfect.