Good to hear that there are other 6.5 fans.

I got tired of the consistency of the performance of the 270 and just for a change of pace l am working on a 6.5x55 SE. I gather that there are no flies in this caliber and loaded with 140 grain Partition bullets should work on bear, deer, moose and target shooting. We'll see.

Good shooting and thanks for starting this thread!!

Aye Roger to sum it all up in as few words as possible .

Bigger is better syndrome especially for the uneducated shooters !.

In the USA a Mother; I need a suburban for taxiing my two children around and shopping !.

I still own 2 and I'm in pursuit of a third . I've always liked my 7's started with them. A 7X57 ,7 Rem Mag ,

thank someone that I didn't start out with a 458 Win Mag !!! . I've also come to love .223, 22-250 and

others .

OK; it's time to fess up. I DO adore the 6.5mms.

Over the years, there have been more 6.5mm bores in this household than all other diameters combined -- and for good reason.

Amongst them, the Swede is one of my all-time favorites, and I've had them in various configurations, from full-military to sporterized to full custom -- not to mention a couple Encore barrels as well.

For 140 grain bullets, nothing for me has topped Re-22 in terms of velocity and accuracy -- and the beauty of the round is that you don't need top-end velocity to enjoy its vaunted performance.

A 140 grain spitzer at 2600-2750 fps will shoot reasonably flat and take down medium-sized game with authority.

I've long lost count of the hogs I've taken with a 6.5x55, but I can tell you that a good many of them were taken with plain Jane, cup-and-core 140 grain bullets. And the majority of the time, you'll get an exit, not always an easy task for a bullet when matched against larger hogs.

But there are other top-notch performers in the 6.5mm lineup. I've tried most of them at some point in time, and the only one I didn't particularly care for was the .264 WM. From the little 6.5 TCU in a 10" Contender through the 6.5-06 AI, they've all served me well. And a 6.5x.308 in a 14", heavy-barreled XP was an absolute demon in the accuracy department and dynamite on both deer and hogs with either a 120 grain BT at 2693 fps or a 125 grain Partition at 2650 fps.

Lately, I've migrated down the .264 ladder a bit and have been shooting a 6.5x30-30 Ackley Improved (aka 6.5 Bullberry IMP) in a 1:8, 26" Contender barrel from Match Grade Machine. It falls shy of the Swede in the velocity department by 250 fps on average, but those same projectiles still do a fantastic job on deer and hogs.

As to the Swede -- everyone's sentimentel favorite, it seems -- it's been around more than 100 years, and without burning significantly more powder and enduring proportionately more recoil, we haven't really improved upon what the 6.5x55 has offered since its inception.

Below is the largest hog I've taken, and it went down with a single shot from a 24" Encore in 6.5x55 loaded with a 140 grain Hornady and Re-22 @ app. 2740 fps. The range was longer than I prefer -- just over 250 yards -- but it was my first decent opportunity to take this hog, which I'd hunted for quite some time and had always been duped.



I rarely recover a bullet fired from a Swede, but here's a 120 grain BT t(right side of photo)that met some hard impact on a nice boar, which appeared out of nowhere while I was meat-hunting for some smaller piggies. (The bullet on the left was fired from the 14" 6.5x.308)

One last thing: the Swede has minimal recoil and can even be mastered by youngsters. Our oldest son took his first piggie with a down-loaded 129 grain Hornady SP -- and he still has that rifle and wouldn't part with it for any price.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
OK; it's time to fess up. I DO adore the 6.5mms.

Over the years, there have been more 6.5mm bores in this household than all other diameters combined

Great posting and really excellent photos. roger

My first big game rifle was a 6.5X55 Swede with a sporter trigger and Lyman aperture sight. As a kid in Colorado I killed a lotta stuff with that rifle including elk. The 6.5 ballistically is another of those rounds that pack great S D's with their long for caliber bullets and I'm not talking sexual diseases. It kills a lot bigger than it is. Love em!
Hard to say what moves the rank and file to reach for their wallet ??? Another caliber that hasn't made the ripple in the pond it shoulda is the .35. .35 Whelen, .358 great elk thumpers but no joy to the rifle companies. So much for it just being the millimeter deal.
As to Roger stirring things up , you all know better! Roger would no more stir things up than Hot Core or Seafire would .
Good topic Rog! Just leave the .17's and .20's alone!

Great pics, Bobby Tomek. Love the one of your youngster with his pig!

That first pic - that pig is somewhat large!

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
Great pics, Bobby Tomek. Love the one of your youngster with his pig!

+1!
That's what I like seeing, Pop out hunting with his son!!

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
As to the Swede -- everyone's sentimentel favorite, it seems -- it's been around more than 100 years, and without burning significantly more powder and enduring proportionately more recoil, we haven't really improved upon what the 6.5x55 has offered since its inception.

Now you've gone and done it, Bobby! This is the kind of 6.5mm elitist talk that gets Roger all jacked up!!!

I guess I am a 6.5 elitest. No problems here. I have a 260, 6.5x284, 6.5x55, 6.5-06AI and a 264WM. I just haven't found anything they won't do yet, so I guess I'll stay with them. I've got some 30 calibers and am building a 7x57, but I don't think I will get any better performance on game from any of them than I do with the 6.5s.

Another Larry for the 6.5s. I have a 284/6.5 and a 6.5 Jap. Really would like to have a .260 and may get one for my grandson, he's 11 months old, too much gun for him, you think?

Killed my largest pig yet with the 6.5 Jap.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
I guess I am a 6.5 elitest. No problems here. I have a 260, 6.5x284, 6.5x55, 6.5-06AI and a 264WM. I just haven't found anything they won't do yet, so I guess I'll stay with them. I've got some 30 calibers and am building a 7x57, but I don't think I will get any better performance on game from any of them than I do with the 6.5s.

roger

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Matherne:
Another Larry for the 6.5s. I have a 284/6.5 and a 6.5 Jap. Really would like to have a .260 and may get one for my grandson, he's 11 months old, too much gun for him, you think?

NO!! But make it a 6.5X55 deep throat. Grand Pas make the most stable environment.Build it for him craw dad roger

I put a 260ai together to shoot paper with. My first exp. w/ this bore size. I like the low recoil & wide bullet selection. It really is a dual purpose round where the 243 IMO, is a bit lacking for larger deer. I am thinkign I need a sporter wt. 6.5x55 or 260 for deer & antelope, although my 280 really has that covered & then some.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
I put a 260ai together to shoot paper with. My first exp. w/ this bore size. I like the low recoil & wide bullet selection. It really is a dual purpose round where the 243 IMO, is a bit lacking for larger deer. I am thinkign I need a sporter wt. 6.5x55 or 260 for deer & antelope, although my 280 really has that covered & then some.

Fred! I'm surprised you don't have a Swede. what am I missing. roger

I love 6.5's.

My go to rifle for North America is the 6.5 WSM. I'm also having a 6.5 Swede built using an MRC 1999 action and nice piece of English Walnut I picked up a few months back. In the 6.5 WSM I have a screamer that really reaches out there. My only complaint would be that it wrecks a lot of meat. So, I'm building a Swede to shoot meat with. The Hornday 160's should penetrate just about anything, but at 2500 fps shouldn't tear things up. I'm thinking that it will perform a lot like my .375 with 300 gr bullets, just without the recoil.

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
I put a 260ai together to shoot paper with. My first exp. w/ this bore size. I like the low recoil & wide bullet selection. It really is a dual purpose round where the 243 IMO, is a bit lacking for larger deer. I am thinkign I need a sporter wt. 6.5x55 or 260 for deer & antelope, although my 280 really has that covered & then some.

Fred! I'm surprised you don't have a Swede. what am I missing. roger

I came very close 2-3 times buying a M70Ft.wt., just never did. The 260ai fit my M700SA better than the 6.5x284, which is what I wanted. Maybe someday I'll get a swede or rebarrel a SA hunting rig for 260ai, since I already have dies.

quote:

Originally posted by talentrec:
---- The Hornday 160's should penetrate just about anything, but at 2500 fps shouldn't tear things up. I'm thinking that it will perform a lot like my .375 with 300 gr bullets, just without the recoil.

Pete

I almost never recover one, except when two pigs line-up

Dear Roger:

In answer to your original observation/question about the minature market for the 6.5mm in the USA, I think that the prevalence of the 270 Winchester and 30-06 Springfield have made the 6.5mm cartridges largely irrelevant from a marketing perspective. That doesn't mean that the 6.5mm cartridges don't work. Just ask Taj Shoemaker about his 6.5x55 Swede and its use in Alaska.

On the other hand, I have owned a 6.5x55 SM in a Sako AV that I wish I had not traded (unbelievably accurate) and a 6.5-06 on a 1908 Brazilian Mauser. I didn't kill anything with either, but I really liked the caliber.

So my next 6.5x55 will be on a 1909 Argentine Mauser and will compliment my 7x57 AI for most of my hunting needs in the lower 48.

Now I just have to get this new business started so that I can afford all this upcoming hunting.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:
Dear Roger:

Now I just have to get this new business started so that I can afford all this upcoming hunting.Sincerely,Chris Bemis

I'm sure that all of us who are retired and gone through the new business scynario whish you the best. roger

There's been a lot of good, thoughtful posts here. I bought my first 6.5x55 - a Swede M94 carbine - in 1962 from among 500 - 600 in cosmoline from a wooden rack in Montgomery Wards. I bought it because it was $29 and cheap, not because I thought it would be as effective as a 30-06 on our 100-pound Texas deer.

I think "real men" shot 30-06 or bigger back then, and the 243 was for women and smal boys. It took Jack O'Connor to extend testicles to 270 shooters, so the 6.5 was in another kind of no-man's land. There was just no convenient niche for shooters to think about it.

Even people who know better still think that. Look at all the comments about how the "6.5 kills all out of proportion for it's size." The 6.5 has always done that; the real surprise is why we continue to buy higher blast and recoil 30-caliber cartridges that don't kill much, if any, better than the 6.5.

?

They are my favorite for sure. Here's an odd 6.5mm for you guys:

Every time someone starts a 6.5mm/.264 thread a lot of 'puter shooters jump in. There is obviously a great deal of interest in this caliber.

You can shoot a very adequate and accurate round all day at the range and not feel beaten up. I love my M96 (1919).

I wish Savage would bring it out a .264 again.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Let me stir the pot a bit more here.

...There are still a lot of hunters out there who find the .30-30 quite adequate. Most of them, though are not "internet gun gurus"...they are pretty much unknown outside their own immediate families and cluster of close friends.

However, over the last 20-40 years there apppears to maybe have also developed a large group of publicly-posting, peer-pressure "authorities" both in print and on the internet, who are advocates of carrying small weapons of mass destruction. Unfortunately for me I am not generous enough to always see them as suffering from a "fascination with velocity".

Depending on the context of their material I sometimes see them as one or more of:

1. "Power freaks"...those who need to be seen as having more power than everyone else, or

2. Those with a feeling (maybe justified, maybe not) of inadequacy...who like to flaunt a big powerful tool as a disguise for their own felt shortcomings. I feel bad for these folks, because they are probably good, capable people who have just been conned into feeling left behind by the same kind of social bullies they had to put up with in high school. These are the kind of folks that sellers of Viagra and other "male" drugs are also trying to con.

3. Those who are just plain lazy, and want to use a tool which absolves them of the responsibility to learn to actually hunt. Instead they learn part of the game...how to shoot...but try to substitute technology for all the rest.

4. Those who do not really understand hunting as a sport. They just can't really grasp that as a sport hunting is matching one's OWN wits, physical abilities, persistence, and respect for the opponent, against the animal(s) being sought. For these folks, there is never a really good hunt where they do not kill ...at least something. That's pretty sad. If you want to play the game as a true sport, you have to be willing to lose as well as enjoy winning.

No one needs a guide, a super weapon, a 4x4, or even a GPS to play the sport. Just a brain, a heart, a workable body, an adequate humane-killing tool (or maybe a camera), and the will to play.

The rest, unless one truly needs to kill to eat, is pretty much a "need" developed in them by marketing experts who just want to sell them things (whether goods or services) and get their money.

Oh well, that ought to get the flames roaring...

Hey AC, Since you are requesting someone to get the "flames roaring", perhaps my flip side of your post is what you are looking for.

Let me stir the pot a bit more here.

There are still a lot of hunters out there who find the .30-30 quite adequate up-close, but find the Trajectory and retained Energy beyond 150yds lacking, in order to make clean 1-shot Kills. Most of them, though are not "internet gun gurus"...they are pretty much unknown outside their own immediate families and cluster of close friends.

However, over the last 20-40 years there apppears to maybe have also developed a large group of publicly-posting, peer-pressure "authorities" both in print and on the internet, who are advocates of carrying small weapons of Inadequate Power. Unfortunately for me I am not generous enough to always see them as suffering from a "fascination with going under gunned".

Depending on the context of their material I sometimes see them as one or more of:

1. "Slob Hunters"...those who need to be seen as using less Power than most serious Hunters recognize as being Adequate for the Game being persued than everyone else, or

2. Those with a feeling (maybe justified, maybe not) of inadequacy...who like to flaunt a tiny Inadequate tool as a method to make them feel Superior to all Hunters who have the proper background knowledge. The old, I can Kill with a (weenie) Cartridge that NO ONE ELSE is able to use. I feel bad for those fools, because they are sure to leave a lot of wounded and lost Game afield. These are the kind of folks that use Viagra and other "male" drugs because they need the Ego boost and ability to Brag.

3. Those who are just plain lazy, and want to use a tool which absolves them of the responsibility to learn to actually huntwith a modicum of Recoil. Instead they learn part of the game...how to shoot...but try to substituteInadequate technology for all the rest.

4. Those who do not really understand hunting as a sport, nor External Ballistics. They just can't really grasp that as a sport hunting is matching one's OWN wits, physical abilities, persistence, and respect for the opponent, against the animal(s) being sought. For these folks, there is never a really good hunt where they do not kill ...at least something. That's pretty sad. If you want to play the game as a true sport, you have to be willing to lose as well as enjoy winning.(Completely Agree.)

No one needs a guide, a tiny Inadequateweapon, a 4x4, or even a GPS to play the sport. Just a brain, a heart, a workable body, an adequate humane-killing tool (or maybe a camera), and the will to play.

The rest, unless one truly needs to kill to eat, is pretty much a "need" developed in them by marketing experts who just want to sell them things (whether goods or servicesor tiny Inadequate firearms) and get their money.

I can't see any Adequate Reason that my view would get any kind of Flames Roaring.
-----

Hey Roger, The reason the 6.5mms are not selling like a "$4 All You Can Cram In Your Face - BBQ meal" is relatively simple. Most folks realize a 6.5mm is not quite as good as a 7mm for Hunting. And the same folks also realize the 6.5mm will never be near as good as a 30cal for Hunting.

I like the looks of the 260Rem, and would much prefer it to a 243Win. Though I do not currently have a 260Rem, I can see where it would make an Adequate Varmint rifle. Once the accuracy of the current 243Win I have degrades to the point it is time to replace the barrel, the 260Rem looks like a right nice barrel swap.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

Hey Roger, The reason the 6.5mms are not selling like a "$4 All You Can Cram In Your Face - BBQ meal" is relatively simple. Most folks realize a 6.5mm is not quite as good as a 7mm for Hunting. And the same folks also realize the 6.5mm will never be near as good as a 30cal for Hunting.

You been hitting that kickapoo joy juice again?

I guess I'll just have to build a 6.5 (something or other) scout.
I,m sure you are right though. A 150 grain bullet from a .300 Savage has to be FAR superior than a 150grain from a .256 Niedner. Whaaaaaa.

Keep HC! roger

Hot Core wrote:

quote:

simple. Most folks realize a 6.5mm is not quite as good as a 7mm for Hunting. And the same folks also realize the 6.5mm will never be near as good as a 30cal for Hunting.

I like the looks of the 260Rem, and would much prefer it to a 243Win. Though I do not currently have a 260Rem, I can see where it would make an Adequate Varmint rifle.

--------

Hmmmmm. Let's see here: I hunt with 6.5, 7mm and .30 caliber cartridges. All are quite adequate for the tasks undertaken, but to claim that the 6.5mm is inferior to a .30 caliber or even to a 7mm is simply ludicrous.

I think someone needs more time afield and less time spent reading (and believing!) the gun rags...

quote:

Originally posted by Ian (VA):
They are my favorite for sure. Here's an odd 6.5mm for you guys:

Ok Ian I'll bite, what is it? Whatever it is it's sure an interesting case design and nice looking piece. I'd think with that case there would be a lot of forward brass flow and case trimming?
Inquiring minds what to know, "I" want to know? Remember that old add?

Nice Pics there fellas. Bobby if that lad was any prouder I think he'd bust .

Hot Core-

Within the confines of my limited intellect, I have yet to be able to ascertain how a 7mm or .30 caliber-anything could have killed these animals any more humanely.

As far as I know, there is only one degree of dead -- and that degree is rather conclusive.

On second thought, though, maybe I'd better check: Since the animals below were NOT shot with a .30 caliber, maybe they aren't really dead yet. That would mean I'd have at least 100+ animals I'd better start checking for pulses on...and I'll take a .30 caliber with me as per Hot Core just in case those bleached bones come back to life.

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:

Ok Ian I'll bite, what is it? Whatever it is it's sure an interesting case design

It's a 6.5x58R, one of those Sauer cases that transitioned from BP to smokeless at the beginning of the century. Pretty weird case design if you ask me... especially since J.P. was reportedly trying to limit peek pressure in this little 4.5 lb stalking rifle (1923), but it seems like he almost maximized "bolt thrust" on these cases. I'm currently loading it to 25-35 levels (does this mean I need to start taking Viagra, or not, I can't tell)?

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
You been hitting that kickapoo joy juice again?

I guess I'll just have to build a 6.5 (something or other) scout.
I,m sure you are right though. A 150 grain bullet from a .300 Savage has to be FAR superior than a 150grain from a .256 Niedner. Whaaaaaa.

Keep HC! roger

Hey Bartsche, The more I post here at AR, the harder it is for me to . I do believe I got Bobby's heartbeat up a few notches though.
-----

Hey Bobby, Nice Hogs. But now that you mentioned it, it does look like the ear is "twitching" on one of them a bit.

The average hunter/shooter doesn't know about 95% of the cartridge choices that exist. Many shoot hand-me-downs from their fathers, etc., or they buy something that sounds familiar, e.g., 270, 30-06, 223, 308. The latter two because that's what they shot in the military. Sometimes I wish I were one of the less informed and could settle for on rifle and cartridge because life would much simpler; however, I seldom take the easy way or settle for the status quo. Lou

HC-That's because I tried to revive it with a Shiner beer...

If you gave it a Shiner Bock it would rejuvenated LOL.

The 260 Remington is the only cartridge design that even comes close to upsetting the 25-06 as GOD'S CHOSEN CHAMBERING!! The 25-06 will handle anything from prairie poodles to mule deer quite effectively! If there were projectiles made that were proportionately adequate to let it be a 1000 yard round, it would be! HOWEVER!! The 260 Remington can handle the 95VMAXS or the 140AMAXS with aplomb!! Stick them in a 26" barrel and shoot lights out on groundhogs or deer at ridicoulous range!24" barrels..........the 120's from various manufacturers seem to be quite proficient on vermin to deer! Stick the same cartridge in a 20" barrel using common 140 Remeington PSP's or 120 BT's and it's a helluva lot more forgiving than a 243 for a kid or inexperienced hunter!! Why REMINGTON abandoned the round in their Model 7's or 700 Youth Models is a mystery!! They even have "MANAGED RECOIL"(and if none of you haven't tested this stuff, IT WORKS!!) loads availale but no rifles!! The 260 may just be a forgotten chambering to the front office at Remington .....................would serve the same recognition as the 222Magnum(superior to the 223) 6mm Remington (SUPERIOR to the 243 Winchester) 300 SAUM, (SUPERIOR TO THE 300WSM).........but I don't work for them, I sit in the sidelines and second guess!!............after much testing and comparing and actual field testing of afformrntioned rounds! Charlie (GHD)

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
25-06 as GOD'S CHOSEN CHAMBERING!! The 25-06 will handle anything from prairie poodles to mule deer quite effectively! (GHD)

One draw back to the 25-06 is that there are no 147 grain bullets (proportional to the 6.5-160gr.) and no rifles commercially made with the twist to handle that bullet.
having used the 25-06IMP for a number of years my opinion is somewhat different than yours.
If I were to use the .25-06 for serious PD shooting I'd probably have to take out a second morgage after the first year.
When dealing with these super fast cartridges bullet construction becomes critical, especially at close range. Sadly ,useing "commercial ammo", I can attest to 25-06 punk performance on Mule deer.JMHO. roger

Bobby , I really enjoyed the pics and captions ...I wish Ruger still made the 260 in a stainless M77mkII w/ 22" barrwel ... Heres a Question for those with the experience . ...Does the 308 ,kill any faster than the 260 or similar velocity 6.5 rounds ??????????
.
.
. There is a reason for this ? my wife has a 308 Ruger Compact .. The 260 is still available in the Ruger Compact .. Starting soon she will be spending alot more time outdoors where there are quite a few bears , both Black and Grizzly .....If she can shoot a 140 gr 6.5 bullet easier than a 165 gr 308 bullet it could do little but help as the bullet in the right spot is what counts first , 2nd is dia and speed 1.12 mm isn,t alot of diameter difference ............ I,m also considering the 338 Federal w/160 TSX , and the 338 RCM ,but obviously that is a big recoil step up ..

Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it.

I shoot .308s quite a bit, am a big fan of he round and have taken a number of animals with them.

In fact, this past season I took my best buck ever with an Encore Pro Hunter 28" barrel using the Sierra 150 grain Pro Hunter spitzer. For several years, I used a Savage 10 FP with a 20" barrel and took a few dozen hogs with it, most with the 150 grain BT at 2780 fps and a few with the Sierra 150 grain PH at just under 2800 fps MV.

In all honesty, I don't see any notable difference in killing power between the .308 WCF and the 6.5x55/.260 class of cartridges. And inside of 300 yards, I'll add my 26" 6.5 Bullberry IMP (aka 6.5x30-30 AI) to the mix as it puts game down quite effectively.

As you so correctly pointed out, with the right bullet in the right spot, all else becomes somewhat moot. Of course, since you did mention she'd be in an area with grizzlies, a step up in bore diameter -- even a small one -- over the .308 is not a bad move, and the 338 Fed/160 TSX you mentioned may be a good idea. It's not exactly recognized grizzly medicine but would certainly do in a pinch.

Nonetheless, I'd still go with what she was most comfortable with and shot the best as confidence is the key ingredient to success. And should she have to deal with a grizzly, a well-placed shot from a .260 or .308 is a heck of a lot more effective than a poorly-placed shot from anything larger.

I think Bobby's idea of being prudent is spot on, especially in an area where a large charging animal might look at you as part of his food chain. roger

quote:

(does this mean I need to start taking Viagra, or not, I can't tell)?

No. What you need is ' Varget'. Lots of it! Don't worry about breach face thrust or case elongation. Load to the old 7x57 pressures and lightly lube the loaded cases and they will be fine. More likely a powder like H4350. Do you have the cartridge dimensions? (You can see where this is going. I like it!) Have you thought of paper patched bullets? Folks who are successful with paper patching are getting amazing accuracy at jacketed velocity. Your historic cartridge and rifle would be perrfect. (Paper patching seems to like higher velocity or at least enough muzzle blast to blow the paper away).

This fellow casts and patches these.


He puts those into the black at 1000yds consistantly using black powder. (45/90 I think)

I still fail to see any holier-than-thou's genuflecting at the alter of 6.5mm's?

Where's all this adoration you so deprecatingly spoke of, Roger?

Are all the in-your-face 6.5mm provocatuers hiding in the woodwork 'til this thread blows over?