Guys,
I keep hesitating on picking one up... Those using one, what are you getting out of its 24" barrel with factory ammunition? What are your thoughts of the rifle/caliber combination overall? Stainless or Blued barrel and what scopes are you putting on them?
Cheers...
Con

Con I'm using a Vanguard in .223 at work at the presant time.Synstock and blued barrel sporting a 4-12 Bussnell on lepould mounts (the mounts came with the rifle.$750.00)I've fired about 600 rds out of it so far with no complaints. I'll admit it's no Ruger but I think it'll be with me for a while.I mean to say it gets covered with dust during the night & bonced along tracks & paddocks that rupure ya kidneys.Shoots straight and has yet to jam

Con,

I would not hesitate on a Vangard at all. My only reservation would be on the 257 Weatherby chambering. I have shot a few guys' 257 Weatherbys and to tell ya the truth, I don't think it offers a whole heck of a lot over a 257 Roberts ( handloaded) or a 25/06, or even my beloved 260 Remingtons; when it comes to velocity, accuracy, range or one game performance.

What it does add is a lot more powder, which translate to accelerated barrel wear/ throat erosion.

The only thing I can say positive in the big cases like that in that small of a bore is that I can load more fast powder in them and get higher velocities, than smaller cases, but again that negates the need, by just using a slower powder.

I'd get the rifle and just do it in another caliber.

Good luck which ever route ya go.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

I shoot a Weatherby Mark V Stainless in .257WM so I can't comment on the Vanguard but can on the caliber. I've topped mine with a Leopold 4.5x14 and it shoots an honest half MOA with factory Remington 122 grain extended range ammo. (unfortunately, Remington discontinued this loading) It shoots extremely flat and hits very hard. I've taken a number of South Texas whitetails up to 225 pounds liveweight, West Texas Mulies close to 280 pounds and pronghorn antelope with this rifle and all but one have been one shot kills! 90% of those animals have dropped in their tracks. I shoot many different calibers but for small to medium size deer and antelope the .257WM is hard to beat, especially when distance is involved!

I shoot the Mark 5 Wby 257 Mag and I shoot reloads but at 100 yds fired 6 shots and they all went like inside of a dime. I don't see why the Vanguard can't do that. The powder I use is RL25.

My Lazermark, 257 Wby, is a beautiful gun but the least accurate thing I own, 2-3 MOA at best. I've spent many an hour at the reloading bench and the gun range trying to find something that it liked - no luck.

I considered selling it, but hate to pass my problems on to someone else. Could rebarrel it but if I do, I'll change calibers.

Well, went out last night to look at a 257Weatherby but a Vanguard 30/06 followed me home instead. Very impressed with the overall feel of the rifle and happy to have a 30/06 back in the safe after a 14 year absence.
Cheers...
Con

I don't know where some of these figures come out but a 25/06 doesn't come near factory Weatherby ballisitcs, assuming of course, a 26" barrel. For the gent with the Lazermark that won't shoot, did you try Weatherby factory 100gr loads? If it doesn't shoot, send it to Weatherby. They'll make it good. the 257 is a fantastic caliber. I've killed deer with everything from a 375 H&H on down and nothing electrifies deer like that 100gr Hornady out of factory ammo. jorge

A buddy of mine bought one a few weeks back,it will launch the 100gr bullets at over 3500fps from the vanguard,I've had a few 25/06's and none of them would do that,the vanguard seems to shoot very well also,a steal at that price,now they need to add the 270 & 340 weatherby to the vanguard

I love the caliber, but plan on paying big bucks for the shells or the brass. It will also take extra work to get a decent trigger with the vanguard.

The triggers of these rifles are good after some work, Adjusting the factory trigger to a comfortable feel causes the safety to stop working. I do a change over of this system to give a trigger of almost any weight desired. Safety still works and Creep is gone. It cost $50.00 plus return shipping. Hope this helps.

quote:

I don't know where some of these figures come out but a 25/06 doesn't come near factory Weatherby ballisitcs, assuming of course, a 26" barrel.

I beg to differ but use the term "practical" difference.

IMO there is no "Practical" difference between the .25-06 and the .257 Weatherby. I've owned a MarkV and a custom Interarms both in .257 weatherby (the interarms the far better rifle) and three .25-06 all in custom mausers and can't really say I can see the difference shooting prairie dogs or hunting deer ow pronghorns. Both are spectacular long range cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Guys,
I keep hesitating on picking one up... Those using one, what are you getting out of its 24" barrel with factory ammunition? What are your thoughts of the rifle/caliber combination overall? Stainless or Blued barrel and what scopes are you putting on them?
Cheers...
Con

I bought a .257 Weatherby Vanguard Sporter this last summer. A very smooth action and a beautiful wood stock. I mounted a Burris Black Diamond 4X–16X–50mm scope on it and what a great combination. While I can't help you with factory ammo data(I shoot nothing but reloads) the load I usd this year for deer was a 100 gr. Barnes TSX anead of 71.2 gr. of Reloder 22 for 3,513 fps. out of the Vanguard. Add another 30 fps. when shooting this load out of my .257 Weatherby Mark V with it's 26" barrel. The .257 Weatherby Magnum is a perfect choice for anyone wanting a hard hitting, accurate rifle caliber combination as both of my .257 Weatherby's both shoot under MOA. Lawdog

Con-honestly if you like the feel of the rifle then I'd be for getting after it.

The last 257 Roy I worked with I eventually cut it from 26" down to 23". B4 and after loss of speed worked out to about 99 fps or so total. Big deal, I say if you like it buy it.

I was in retail during the last 3 years and when the Van came out in a 257 we sold quite a lot of them. Each and every customer that I sold to just loved the guns and had very favorable things to say about speed and accuracy.

IME it will with like tube lenths be about 300 fps faster than a 25/06. And as for the Roberts albeit a neat round it is not in the same league as the Roy. No way no how and if some try's to tell them that then just ask them what they are a smokin.

I'd get after it and buy it man.

Mark D

A couple have mentioned getting 3,500 FPS with
100 Grain Bullets with the Vanguard which is the
reason I did not buy one. It is not a big deal with a 26" or longer .257 to attain 3,600fps & change with the 100 gr. pill.I was all set to buy a Vanguard until I found out about the barrel.I even called Wea. because I thought that the 24" listing was a typo, & the nice gent. from Wea. told me that the Japs, (Howa) did not want to offer the 26" for cost reasons & he admitted to me that the 24" is not a good match for the .257 Wea., in fact others at Wea. had asked & Howa had a take it or leave it stance. They don't care if you go ahead & buy one & many will!
I go with the 25-30 FPS per inch stuff with 30-06 type cartridges but in a smaller "overbore" type round, & with warm loads & slow powders, that has not been my experience. Some I see here will say otherwise & that's fine, maybe I had strange barrels. With some 24" barrels or any 26" barrel 25-06 like the Savage or Sendero, 3,400 FPS with 100 Gr. is no big trick & common knowledge to reloaders with any experience. To me at least, to buy a Wea. & use the powder & pricer brass for 100 FPS is not logical.
My personal solution for that particular velocity range was to Ackley Improve my Sendero.
With this 26" 25-06 Ackley I also get 3,500 with
the 100 gr., 3,350 with 115 & 3,250 with 125Gr.
Wildcat bullets I used in Wyoming this year. Am I saying you or someone else should go with a 25-06 Ackley. No, probably not. This is a round really for serious handloaders & most would not want to fire form,etc. but for me it is a non issue. I also did this to have a match chamber in my factory barrel & I don't like to trim necks & now I rarely do with the Ackley shoulder. This is now a 1/4" gun & that is a little better than any 25 that I have owned, but again I don't advise it for most people. A
26'-27" .257 Wea. is a great way to go, I think
as you will get 75-100 FPS with ea. bullet weight over my Ackley numbers. But since I have
this set-up, if I want more performance, I will have built a 300WM-25 & this gain would give me something, but again, that sure isn't for everyone.
I really see no practical advantage in the 24"
in rounds like the 7 & 300RUM, 264 Win., 224TTH,
6mm-06 & others including the .257WEA!!!
Con, in summary, I would rather have a 26' 25-06 than a 24" .257 any day as 100 fps means little.

Rod-exactly how many 257 Roys have you taken and worked up a max load with it at 26". Then taken and cut it down to see how much it would lose? Now note I am not saying that you worked with them that had 24's and worked with them that had 26's. I am saying how many have you taken the time with the one tube to work up a load and the to abbreviate the tube?

And I am also kind of curious as to how many 257 Roys have you actually worked with?

With the work I personally did it lost just undr 100 fps for the 3" I cut (26 to 23). This is no big deal, at least in my opinion.

Way too much is put into something like another couple of inches. I'll go with the extra tube if it'll make the rifle balance better. But for the extra 50 to 60 fps I'll take a pass.

Change lots of powders and it is very easy to see that much different with no problem. Different tube will run different speeds.

Personally I would take a 24" Roy with a 100 @ 35 to 36 any day over a 25/06. With the long barreled 25/06's that I've worked with they've been given plenty and been running at 3400. And that is with a tube a couple of inches longer.

Now the 25/06 AI kind of gets my attention but that is another thought.

Thanks for your time

Mark D

Oh and hey Rod you said that it was not logical to go with the Wby just to get the 100 fps faster. You know you didn't want to deal with the cost of brass and so on.

But I do kind of find it interesting that you will take the time to punch a 25/06 to AI for the extra 100 fps?

Gracias

Mark D

Mark
If you would read my post a little more carefully you would not find it curious. As I said in my post, I wanted a precision chamber
& I got it. I also said it is not for everyone
& I pointed out to Con the cost of brass of the
Wea. because this will be something to think about for some who are asking these basic questions of cartridges. Taking the time for me is TV time, a way to make the time worth something, as I said in the previous post it is
not an issue for me but it is not for everyone!
The AI example was to show the difference in performance of these rounds & the differences
that I mention are accurate from what I have seen. Of course "fast & slow" barrels occur from
time to time.
Sorry if it struck a cord, but nothing is new here.

Rod it didn't strike a cord with me, just a curious as to what you're thinking that is all.

Thx

Mark D

Mark, guess what I have worked with only a couple of Wea. 257 26" versions. Would it help
if I worked with 10-15? No, because I trade notes with other shooters that shoot them too!
The same with 300 Mags, 22-250, 7STW & everything else we shoot. I am only 52 years old
as opposed to 150-200 years old nor do I have an
unlimited budget & it does take time & money.
I did not say that you did not get the results
that you stated, but I did say that this was not
my experience & that's a fact.
I may be able to learn a trick or two from you &
that would be a good thing! Maybe you have a
combination of components (especially powder)
that helps you achieve this. If so, I am eager
to learn & I am not being sarcastic either! It
is never too late to learn & a PM of these secrets would be appreciated. I would even be
interested in buying a .257 Wea. in 26" & then
cutting the barrel to 23" & if the velocity dropped too much the Dealer would have to buy it
back, now I guess I am being a little sarcastic
here as I don't think anyone could do that.
I don't remember the author's last name, maybe
Ralph Leyameyer, but he wrote a good article on
the 257 Vanguard & he compared with a 26" MarkV & the velocity difference was dramatic.
But no, I don't doubt your personal research but
it is different for this cartridge than I have
seen, but again I am willing to learn.

Mark
You pointing out that tha AI only gave an extra 100FPS for the 100 gr. is valid, but I personally have gone to the 125 gr. wildcat &
with these heavier bullets the spread is 150-175
FPS & again with the precision much better accuracy.
Good question though.

Weatherby Vanguard Stainless Steel, 24 inch barrel, guareenteed 1 inch accuracy, reloads using Ramshot Magnum powder, 1 grain off max in mine with a Barnes TSX 100 grain bullet does 3594 fps. I don't think your 257 Roberts can even hit 3300 fps.......................................................................................................................................

That is a 10 shot chronographed average. You figure it out, a whole bunch of them were 3600fps+..........

I currently own a Win model 70 custom built 257 weatherby. The barrel is 27 1/2". Don't know what velocities I am getting because I don't own a chronograph, at least not yet. As far as the cost of brass goes, just full length size 7mm brass in a 257 weatherby die and you have cheaper brass. This was suggested to me by the gunsmith that built my rifle. The neck ends up being a little shorter than weatherby brass and the case is a little heavier so work up your loads but as for me I have had no problems with the brass. The only weatherby brass I have is about ten cases that were given to me, the rest all has 7mm rem magnum on the headstamp.

AggieDog
Thanks for the info! I have heard good things
about this powder, I have not tried it yet. I
believe I will soon, as I have heard of high velocities in other cartridges with it. Do you
know of anyone that has tried it in a 26" .257
Wea? This is approaching the 26" vel. with other
powders! I would like to see these velocities
in a 24", like I mentioned in a previous post,
you could have a "fast barrel", but then again, maybe not & I hope not, as I don't carry long
barrels just to be carrying them.

I wouldn't know about the Roberts AI, I don't
load for it.

jorge
When I was a kid, I knew a guy who fed a large
family Deer year round with a .257 Wea. with the
Factory Hornady round. He killed over a hundred
Whitetails with that load & he said they dropped
in their tracks except for 1 large Buck that ran
about 15 yards! Very impressive record & yes he
was a poacher. It was not frowned on here in AR.
in those days as fortunately it is now.

Aggie/Rod the Ramshot powders are some good ones for sure. Toughest thing in these parts is availability of it. And to think it comes out of Montana just down the road (300 miles away-that's just down the road here...grins)

Mark D

I don't know of anyone who has tried Ramshot Magnum in a 26 inch tube in 257 wby, but my velosities are matched by John Barnessess, the gun writher in his Weatherby Vanguard. My point is not to say a vanguard is better than a Mark V and a 26 inch barrel, rather to point out the 24 inch barrel does not cost you as much velosity as you would think. Many people believe you lose 50-100 fps per inch of barrel, when in reality, you usually will loose about 20-30 fps per inch. That isnt very much, considering you have a 24 inch barrel.

When I rebarrel the 257, I probably would go ahead and stick a 25-26 inch barrel on it.

The Ramshot powders are spirical, which means they are a dream to reload with. They meter very good in your powder measure. I have trouble getting it here also. When I find it, I get 2 1 Lb containers. I am wanting to start playing with Ramshot Hunter in some other cartridges, and I dont really care about velocity, the stuff meters so well, that I like very much as a reloader. It's the sleeper powder out there right now in my opinion.

The only thing I wouldn't like about the Howa/Vanguard is the 24" barrel. The .257WBY is a hotrod cartridge anyway you look at it. With the price of a box of cartridges or even 20 empty cases I want everything I can safely get out of it and that would require a 26" tube minimum.

Terry

Im not expert at anything and dont claim to be. But if any of you seriously think that a 24" or 26" barrel will make a hill of beans difference as far as killing power etc. then you are obviously not as experienced as you let on to be.

2 inches come on now people

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
Im not expert at anything and dont claim to be. But if any of you seriously think that a 24" or 26" barrel will make a hill of beans difference as far as killing power etc. then you are obviously not as experienced as you let on to be.

2 inches come on now people

Nope, you missed the point. When you are talking about "killing" power there is very little difference in a .257WBY and a .257BOB! Most people that want a .257WBY are looking for a fast .257 period. Long barrels work best for over bore cartridges and that's definately what a .257WBY is.

If I didn't care about getting the most FPS out of a .257 why in the world would I choose a rifle chambered for a round that cost $35 for a box of ammo or brass that goes for a $1 apiece? If none of that interests you, you'd probably be better off with a .25-06. probably every bit as good as a the Weatherby, just slower.

Terry

Personally, I think you are the one showing lack of
experience if you even remotelly think there is little Killing power difference between a 257 Roberts and a 257 weatherby magnum. First off, the 257 wby has a distance killing power range significantly further than a 257 Roberts. Secondly, if you want to load 120 grain bullets, that distance even becomes much further as the Roy can handle 120 grain bullets with "authority" relative to both velocity and energy "downrange". Third, regardless of bullet wt loaded between the Roy and the Bob, the 257 Roy has a much flatter tragectory. A flatter tragectory can equate into more hits for many shooters. If you look at an "Energy Chart", I suspect the animal "Will" know the difference.

Relative to your 26 inch barrel verses a 24 inch barrel, my point, as an owner who "does" reload for the Roy in a 24 inch barrel, is I only loose 50 fps over a 26 inch barrel. Now, with my 100 grain bullet traveling at 3600 fps, and my 115 grain TSX traveling at 3355 fps, I really dont think any animal will know I am packing a 24 inch barreled 257 Roy. Did I also mention my loads are a full grain from max? I chose not to be right on the edge. My velocities are exactly what Weatherby now quotes on their factory ammunition, and further more, did you know that Weatherby now uses a 24 inch barrel to determine their factory ammunition velocity?

The only argument you could possibly have is you want a 26 inch barrel over a 24 inch barrel, but your argument the 24 inch barrel is somehow hampered doesent stand up to what the "Facts Are".

You're quoting from charts and you say I have a lack of experience? hmmm.

It's been my experience that animals die from being struck by a bullet not by how flat the bullet fly's through the air.

Tell me one animal that you can kill with a .257WBY that you can't kill with a .257bob? I'm looking for animals not circumstances.

Facts? until you can tell me that your short barrel will shoot faster than a long barrel your argument is pointless. I stated to get the most out of a .257WBY you need 26" barrel minimum. If you don't agree with that I really don't care.

Most animals the size you would hunt with this size rifle can't tell what the hell they've shot with, be it a .257WBY or a 45-70 so to bring that up is pointless and means nothing.

The point of my post was I wouldn't want a .257WBY Howa because it has a short barrel and you can't get the most out of it. You've said absalutely nothing that has changed my mind.

Experience? yea, I've got plenty of it.

Terry

I quoted from my experience. end of conversation with you.

You idiot, I never once said a 24 inch barrel will shoot as fast as a 26, but it is darn close. Try reading what we are saying, you are pointless.

quote:

Originally posted by AggieDog:
If you look at an "Energy Chart", I suspect the animal "Will" know the difference.

Same to ya.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by AggieDog:
You idiot, I never once said a 24 inch barrel will shoot as fast as a 26, but it is darn close. Try reading what we are saying, you are pointless.

You're just softheaded. You started this and now you can't back it up. I think lack of experience is a term that fits you well.

Terry

You Twit, I did back it up with real world experience and reload information. Read the question Con asked, I dont think you have helped him at all. You seem to want to say your puny little 257 Roberts is in the same league as a Roy, it isnt, we all know that. That doesnt take a thing away from the cartridge, but the subject at hand was "is it worth it to get a 24 inch Vanguard", and based on my "real world" experience, and use of one I gave what my loads are doing. and you, seem to have a bug up your a@@ that perhaps I am correct. And jumping in with your Roberts BS, what's with that? A Roberts has as much killing power as a 257 wby.LOL you are hilarious!!!! Later

Get the 24 inch Vanguard Con, and go have some fun, you only loose about 30fps per inch, which in the real world equals nothing when you are throw ing 100 gr bullets around 3600 fps.