quote:

Originally posted by AggieDog:
You Twit, I did back it up with real world experience and reload information. Read the question Con asked, I dont think you have helped him at all. You seem to want to say your puny little 257 Roberts is in the same league as a Roy, it isnt, we all know that. That doesnt take a thing away from the cartridge, but the subject at hand was "is it worth it to get a 24 inch Vanguard", and based on my "real world" experience, and use of one I gave what my loads are doing. and you, seem to have a bug up your a@@ that perhaps I am correct. And jumping in with your Roberts BS, what's with that? A Roberts has as much killing power as a 257 wby.LOL you are hilarious!!!! Later

Get the 24 inch Vanguard Con, and go have some fun, you only loose about 30fps per inch, which in the real world equals nothing when you are throw ing 100 gr bullets around 3600 fps.

Nope, wrong again. I simply stated in my 1st post that I think you're better off with a 26" barrel on a .257WBY and you went into a rude insulting, name calling tirade because I don't agree with you.

The subject of "killing" power came up in response to another poster and I made the statement about the .257 roberts that you seem to be stuck on. For your information I own both. You never did answer the ,question. What animal can you take with a .257WBY that you can't take with a roberts?

If the man wants a slower .257WBY a 24" barrel would be a good choice. If he wants to get the most out of the cartridge a 26" barrel is the way to go,,,, period.

You're childish, rude and lacking in social skills. I'm not wasting any more time with this thread or you. You're not worthy.


Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

If he wants to get the most out of the cartridge a 26" barrel is the way to go,,,, period.


Terry

Ah, another defiant use of the word "period" as in: thats that, end of discussion, there is no way I could be wrong.
Well Terry, I think your dead wrong. To get the most out of your gun, why the hell would anyone want a 26 inch barrel when you could put a 40 inch barrel on the gun. You would likely gain a good 300 fps over a 26 inch barrel and be able to hang a deer up on the end of the barrel.

Bottom line is everything is a compromise and the absolute velocity gain from increasing the barrel length a measly 2 inches is ~50 fps. Hardly anything to write home to mom and dad about.

Wes

quote:

Originally posted by WESR:

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

If he wants to get the most out of the cartridge a 26" barrel is the way to go,,,, period.


Terry

Ah, another defiant use of the word "period" as in: thats that, end of discussion, there is no way I could be wrong.
Well Terry, I think your dead wrong. To get the most out of your gun, why the hell would anyone want a 26 inch barrel when you could put a 40 inch barrel on the gun. You would likely gain a good 300 fps over a 26 inch barrel and be able to hang a deer up on the end of the barrel.

Bottom line is everything is a compromise and the absolute velocity gain from increasing the barrel length a measly 2 inches is ~50 fps. Hardly anything to write home to mom and dad about.

Wes

Oh yea, selective quoting. Always fun. Here's the deal, the conversation revolves around factory guns or at least that's what I assumed anyway. As far as I know these are offered with 24" and 26" barrels. I don't know of any offered with 40" so that's not part of this discussion or at least that's what I assumed.

Before you hold off on writting home where are you getting your 50FPS from anyway? Most #'s offered are from reloaders who don't use pressure testing equipment. The fact they can get with in 50FPS of published factory ballistics means nothing. The claim "my loads are safe" only means nothing bad has happened. I've read plenty of posts by .25-06 shooters that claim their loads are as fast as .257WBY loads and safe. Kind of scary when you think about it. The only true way to find out exactly how much you are loosing is load a batch of ammo, shoot a string of bullets through a 26" barrel rifle and average it. Then cut 2" off that same barrel and repeat. I bet you'd loose a little more than 50FPS if you did it that way.

What seems to have started this is my 1st post on this thread. Here is the WHOLE POST NOT JUST A SELECTIVE PART OF IT.
"The only thing I wouldn't like about the Howa/Vanguard is the 24" barrel. The .257WBY is a hotrod cartridge anyway you look at it. With the price of a box of cartridges or even 20 empty cases I want everything I can safely get out of it and that would require a 26" tube minimum.

Terry"

What is the problem with that? The fact that it doesn't agree with aggiedog? Who gives a shit? I don't. If I'm going to shoot a .257WBY cartridge, a cartridge that's claim to fame is that it's a speed demon. I personally want mine to shoot as fast as safely possible.In a factory rifle that requires a 26" barrel.....PERIOD (I did that just for you )

Terry

No TCI, you are everything that is wrong with forums. You didnt stick to the question Con asked.

You have zero experience with a 24 inch Vanguard, yet you persist, like a little kid trying or needing to get the last word.

My response was real simple, the Vanguard Rocks, go deal with it.......

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by WESR:

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

If he wants to get the most out of the cartridge a 26" barrel is the way to go,,,, period.


Terry

Ah, another defiant use of the word "period" as in: thats that, end of discussion, there is no way I could be wrong.
Well Terry, I think your dead wrong. To get the most out of your gun, why the hell would anyone want a 26 inch barrel when you could put a 40 inch barrel on the gun. You would likely gain a good 300 fps over a 26 inch barrel and be able to hang a deer up on the end of the barrel.

Bottom line is everything is a compromise and the absolute velocity gain from increasing the barrel length a measly 2 inches is ~50 fps. Hardly anything to write home to mom and dad about.

Wes

Oh yea, selective quoting. Always fun. Here's the deal, the conversation revolves around factory guns or at least that's what I assumed anyway. As far as I know these are offered with 24" and 26" barrels. I don't know of any offered with 40" so that's not part of this discussion or at least that's what I assumed.

Before you hold off on writting home where are you getting your 50FPS from anyway? Most #'s offered are from reloaders who don't use pressure testing equipment. The fact they can get with in 50FPS of published factory ballistics means nothing. The claim "my loads are safe" only means nothing bad has happened. I've read plenty of posts by .25-06 shooters that claim their loads are as fast as .257WBY loads and safe. Kind of scary when you think about it. The only true way to find out exactly how much you are loosing is load a batch of ammo, shoot a string of bullets through a 26" barrel rifle and average it. Then cut 2" off that same barrel and repeat. I bet you'd loose a little more than 50FPS if you did it that way.

What seems to have started this is my 1st post on this thread. Here is the WHOLE POST NOT JUST A SELECTIVE PART OF IT.
"The only thing I wouldn't like about the Howa/Vanguard is the 24" barrel. The .257WBY is a hotrod cartridge anyway you look at it. With the price of a box of cartridges or even 20 empty cases I want everything I can safely get out of it and that would require a 26" tube minimum.

Terry"

What is the problem with that? The fact that it doesn't agree with aggiedog? Who gives a shit? I don't. If I'm going to shoot a .257WBY cartridge, a cartridge that's claim to fame is that it's a speed demon. I personally want mine to shoot as fast as safely possible.In a factory rifle that requires a 26" barrel.....PERIOD (I did that just for you )

Terry

Terry,
First let me apologize for the admittedly smart ass tone of my post. I wrote it right after reading the very uncivilized exchange between you and AggieDog and thinking what a stupid thing for you two to get nasty about. I zeroed in on a common occurence her among many posters saying "period" as if that lends their point some sort of legitimacy. My intent was not to "selectively quote" you, but to keep the length of my post short so as to not clutter the board. The entire discourse is here for people to read and make up their own opinions. Sorry if I pissed you off with the way I quoted you.

That apology up front, I still feel you are optimistic regarding the benefit of going from a 24 to 26 inch barrel. As far as the 50 FPS, this would be the approximate gain expected with 2 inch barrel increase. While individual guns vary, most high powered rifles with barrels over 20-22 inches will gain another 15-35 FPS of MV/inch. On average, it comes out to be ~25 FPS/inch. The amount gained also greatly has to with how long the barrel is in the first place. The shorter the barrel, the more increase in FPS you will get by increasing barrel length. That is why a high pressure pistol cartridge will usually gain ~50 FPS/inch of barrel. The longer your barrel, the less increase/inch you will see. That is, you would get less increase in FPS going from a 26 to a 28 inch barrel than from a 24 to a 26 inch barrel. It is not a linear relationship. This gets very complicated, and I don't know what your science/mathematics background is, but is essentially calculus with velocity being "area under the curve" when talking about pressure curves.

The pressure curve (Pressure as a function of Time) of a firearm is such that it has a relatively very high peak pressure just as the projectile enters throat-1st inch of barrel and then the pressure drops in a non-linear, decelerating fashion so that with each x unit of time (that translates to distance of bullet travel in barrel) you get every more rapidly decreases in pressure. That means that "area under the pressure curve" past 24 inches is very small and you get correlating small increases in velocity. While my comment about a 40 inch barrel was a bit sarcastic, you would almost certainly continue to see still increasing velocities out to at least 40". These increases/inch however would likely be very modest and more along the order of ~10 FPS (that number is just a guess and not an extrapolation).


You seem to doubt my 50 FPS velocity increase from going from 24- 26 inches. Thats fine and I can live with it. This is correct however. The same disclaimer goes however that each barrel is different. Some Weatherbys might see a 100 FPS change and others may see a 25 FPS change. Let me tell you where the 50 FPS comes from:
1. The tests have been done. Many years ago when I used to read the gun mags, I recall a couple of articles where the authors did as you suggest and serially shortened the barrels of rifles and the results were as I have stated they should be. Again, all the authors did was reaffirm what we already know to be true from area under the curve calculations.
2. Personal experience shooting the same loads in guns with varying barrel lengths. On average, a load fired in different guns will be ~25 FPS faster/inch of barrel. While this number varies wildly, when you shoot enough guns, you cans start to pull trends out of data.

Anyway, bottom line once again is barrel length is a compromise between handiness and velocity. However, lets not lie to ourselves about the magnitude of the delta velocity. Personally, I don't mind long barrels and I wouldn't mind if Weatherby started putting 28 inch barrels on guns as I really don't think and extra 4 inches of barrel makes it harder to get through the woods. Like you, I like getting the most out of my cartridges.

Sincere best regards
Wes

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
Im not expert at anything and dont claim to be. But if any of you seriously think that a 24" or 26" barrel will make a hill of beans difference as far as killing power etc. then you are obviously not as experienced as you let on to be.

2 inches come on now people

Just what do you save by cutting off 2"? How much weight are you really saving? Makes them handle better? Get real. Lawdog

A very close friend of mine had a 257 Weath Mag Vanguard and loved shooting deer with and then he bought a 7MM08 and liked it a lot more and sold the 257 W.
There is nothing wrong with it if that is what you like but there are better choices depending on your needs of course.

The original question was something like is it worth buying a 450-550 dollar Vanguard in 257 wby. Fifty million answers later, I am the only one here
who has one, and has reloaded for it, and has extensively chronographed my loads. If you don't like my answer, fine, but, meanwhile, short of dishing out $1500.00 for a Mark V, of which of course, I would love to own one of those, I think the answer is simple: I lost 50fps for the loss of 2 inches off my barrel. Now until I shoot this barrel out, and have a custom 26 inch barrel installed, I think I can live with that. I hear several things here, the Mark V guys are jealous that the Vanguard performs that well, and the 257 Roberts guys are squaking they are as good with a 28 inch barrel. Hell guys, did any of you bother to read (read) the original question asked in this thread? I dont think you did. As for Vangaurds, they are a bargain, and shoot very well. Get over the fact that a 257 wby vanguard is within 50 fps as your Mark V. No
one ever said the Vanguard was a better rifle than the Mark V, and no one ever said 24 inches is better than 26 in 257 wby mag, But you guys seem rather pissed that the Vanguard is really "That Good".....well it is. Later

Here's mine, it's a new Sub-Moa. I am impressed with it but I hate the stock. I am going to restock with a Lawson thumbhole in brown laminate.

I would buy another one it's damn sure sub-moa.

Whoops it's gone, my father sold it for me last night.

quote:

Originally posted by AggieDog:
The original question was something like is it worth buying a 450-550 dollar Vanguard in 257 wby. Fifty million answers later, I am the only one here
who has one, and has reloaded for it, and has extensively chronographed my loads. If you don't like my answer, fine, but, meanwhile, short of dishing out $1500.00 for a Mark V, of which of course, I would love to own one of those, I think the answer is simple: I lost 50fps for the loss of 2 inches off my barrel. Now until I shoot this barrel out, and have a custom 26 inch barrel installed, I think I can live with that. I hear several things here, the Mark V guys are jealous that the Vanguard performs that well, and the 257 Roberts guys are squaking they are as good with a 28 inch barrel. Hell guys, did any of you bother to read (read) the original question asked in this thread? I dont think you did. As for Vangaurds, they are a bargain, and shoot very well. Get over the fact that a 257 wby vanguard is within 50 fps as your Mark V. No
one ever said the Vanguard was a better rifle than the Mark V, and no one ever said 24 inches is better than 26 in 257 wby mag, But you guys seem rather pissed that the Vanguard is really "That Good".....well it is. Later

I completely agree with you. The Vanguard is well worth the money and it is just as good as you and many others, including me, have said. Lawdog