I saw on TAA today that Ruger has a 223 caliber version of the African, used as a trainer for the bigger bore rifle. Has anyone heard this for sure? Sounds interesting.

I have no idea, but it sounds totally insane. Now, a 30-06 seems like it would be better gun choice to sell as a pair for what ever reason.

YES they do the guys at FTW have some to use in there program at the ranch.

Shows what I know! How are they selling and how do the shoot?

I don't know all the details PM Elton who posts here he works with FTW also Dave Fulson might know about them he has been there to. I do know the weight and balance are supposed to mimic Safari grade rifles

I missed several chances to buy a RUger 06 when they made them to look like the magnums, they were slick looking rifles.

I did manage to get a 30-06 years back. I love it. Its a shame they dont make a whole line of the African model in popular calibers. Id love to see a 9.3x62 in that configuration too.

I think there is a big difference between a pair for hunting and a trainer. We use 22lr AR -15's for tactical training to save ammo costs and the feel and ergonomics to replicate gunhandling skills is what you are looking for. A 223 caliber in the same configuration would allow for much more practice than a 30-06 in terms of ammo cost and availability and recoil tolerance.

Does a .223 qualify as a big-bore?

Not hardly but it relates to the use of big bore rifles in this thread.

In this case it's a small bore impersonating a big bore.

I can see a school using them for ammo cost and recoil reduction. Firing a couple hundred rounds of .375 on a weekend will injure more than your wallet. For most folks that want a smaller rifle to mimic their big bore I'd bet a .308 would be popular as it would work for practice and deer/plains game and there is some pretty cheap surplus ammo out there in 7.62x51mm.

Actually I'd bet Ruger could come out with an African style in either .308 or .223 and sell one to 80% of the folks that have already bought a .375 African.

Id buy one in 308 for sure. I just like that configuration in a rifle. Very classy for the money. If it turns out that the 223's are available I will own one. Anything that lets you practice your gunhandling skills and shooting more is a good thing.

Ruger .223 African. Yes, guys, it is a good thing.


These are great for the look, weight and feel for aiding in the developing of hand / eye coordination and they have the proper sights. These are excellent for repetitive drills in developing quick and efficient mounting ,kill zone acquisition , discharge and follow thru disciplines.

Remember, people in situations revert to the training and or practice weather it be good or bad. How often on the tv shows do you see some guy making a shot and then looking at the gun,the animal, not knowing what to do next and piddling around. PH has to say "reload ..shoot again". Too often? American Admiration Shot? Or perhaps the price of practice with the big bore was just too much in terms of the cost of thumping and or ammo costs.

There is a difference between training and practice. The purpose of practice should be to maintain good training.

Of course using .223 cal. makes for significant dollar costs savings but more importantly the the prolonged abuse of heavy caliber can create developing a flinch or other difficulties.


There are the far greater costs and often over looked.
A missed or wounded animal..what are the costs?

Missed.. some embarrassment but there may be another opportunity and one could go home empty handed.

Wounded and it gets away.. game over.

Then there is the issue of wounded DG. Make no mistake the life and limb not just to ones self but to the others on the team are in your hand.
Today the costs associated with DG hunting is just too high for one not to have the best and maintained skills.

The Ruger African makes a lot of common sense
considering all the costs. And it is a lot of fun

OH, in case you wonder FTW SAAM Training gets no comp from Ruger.

.223 African.... it has my vote.

So, how does one get one of these things?

Elton;

Well put. We say that you wont rise to the occaision, you will default to your level of training. Anything that lets you practice more is a good thing. We have used laser simulators, 22lr conversions etc., all to get more trigger time. What separates the amatuers from the pros is gunhandling skill and that can only be developed through practice and big bore practice is both expensive and painfull.

I have an email into my friend at Ruger. Hopefully I can get some more info soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Does a .223 qualify as a big-bore?

No, the 223 is definately not a big bore but, niether is the 375 and it is allowed in this forum so why not the 223

The thread is being allowed because it pertains to practice for a big bore through use of a similarly-styled small-bore.

The .375 is included in this forum because that is how the forum owner wants it.

George

It is correct that the .223 Ruger is not only a great practice tool that mimics the true big bore Hawkeye African , but a real neat, fun to shoot rifle in it's smaller caliber. But it is a BIG BORE tool for the guy that owns it's larger cousin.

Dave, Exactly. My response from Ruger was that there was a small number of these produced, and limited availability. Exactly how small and how limited remains to be seen. I really love a challenge and will keep trying to get one.

Rob

Has anyone learned how to get one of these things? My dealer has had no luck finding one and when I called Ruger I got no where.

No luck here either. I have a good contact at Ruger and so far nothing has materialized. I really would like to have one of these. Maybe we can put some requests in at SHOT this year.

I'm not really sure why you need a 22 African to practice. You can practice off hand shots, follow up shots and shooting from sticks with any 22 bolt action rifle. But I guess it's a way to sell more guns so more power to Ruger.

doesnt make much sense to me. If your going to africa the cost of practice ammo is a minor consideration. For the price of that fancy 223 you could buy alot of 375 ammo. I dont care how much you shoot a .223 its not going to stop you from flinching if you cant handle the recoil of a 375. You can shoot 500 .223s and then switch to your 375 and be flinching in minutes. You need to dance with the one you brung until you get it in your head that the gun isnt hurting you. Its a cool looking gun for a guy thats got nothing better to spend his money on but to me its more of a novitly gun then a practical one.

I can practice more with a 223 than a 375 any day of the week regardless of cost. Anyone who tells me they enjoy shooting 50 to 100 rounds of 375s every Saturday is kidding themself.
I like to hunt groudhogs and this represents an express type rifle suitable for that purpose.
I usually shoot about 2000 rounds of 22LR per summer at swingers. I would not enjoy that with a big bore. The problem with most 22LR guns is they do not feel like a big bore rifle. They feel like a 22.
Thanks for the advice but I'll waste my money on one of these if I can find one!

For those of you that would like to know about the 223 Ruger Hawkeye African, the Distributor that has these is Acusport, item number is 17199. You will have to have your Dealer order from Acusport.

They currently have these in stock and I know a few have been ordered.

Best,

jjs

I think it is a great idea, but if you handload you can load cast bullets at a greatly reduced velocity with nearly the same trajectory.

Who wants to practice with full blown loads all day?

AZ,

With you on the reduced load option. However, a significant appeal of this type of rifle for me is the reducing my time and reloading ammo takes time....relatively inexpensive and available factory ammo certainly helps.

I have been shooting almost every weekend 375s, 458 win. mag. and a 22 LR, I hope this will add to my practice experience.

I should have one of these in my hands next week and will be putting a significant amount of rounds through it over the next couple of months...

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:
AZ,

With you on the reduced load option. However, a significant appeal of this type of rifle for me is the reducing my time and reloading ammo takes time....relatively inexpensive and available factory ammo certainly helps.

I have been shooting almost every weekend 375s, 458 win. mag. and a 22 LR, I hope this will add to my practice experience.

I should have one of these in my hands next week and will be putting a significant amount of rounds through it over the next couple of months...

Yes, I agree. Even cast bullet loads in my .416 take a lot of powder. Also, shooting cast bullets is kind of pain in terms of getting the lead out.

Like I said, I think the .223 idea is a good one. If you are a handloader, you could even duplicate the trajectory of your big bore cartridge. I wrote a story about doing this some years back.

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
...I dont care how much you shoot a .223 its not going to stop you from flinching if you cant handle the recoil of a 375. You can shoot 500 .223s and then switch to your 375 and be flinching in minutes. You need to dance with the one you brung until you get it in your head that the gun isnt hurting you. ...

Completely agree. Anything else just conditions your mind to be ready to Flinch when you get to the real rifle.

That does not mean there is no use for a 223Rem, but it is not the best concept to substitute it for actual Big Bore practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
...I dont care how much you shoot a .223 its not going to stop you from flinching if you cant handle the recoil of a 375. You can shoot 500 .223s and then switch to your 375 and be flinching in minutes. You need to dance with the one you brung until you get it in your head that the gun isnt hurting you. ...

Completely agree. Anything else just conditions your mind to be ready to Flinch when you get to the real rifle.

That does not mean there is no use for a 223Rem, but it is not the best concept to substitute it for actual Big Bore practice.

I agree with the idea that there is no substitute for practice with a Big Bore when it comes to handling recoil, familiarity with your rifles, etc, however, in my opinion there is a place for a smaller gun.

Over the past month I have been shooting almost 200 rounds of 22 LR off sticks and about 20 rounds of 375s on up every weekend. The smaller rifles afford me a greater opportunity to do more shooting from both a time and cost prospective. There is no way I could reload over 200 rounds in a week, just do not have the time...

You think 200 rounds, a week for several months, of 22 LR or 223 shooting off sticks will enhance your ability to place a shot accurately when the time comes? You actually think that kind of practice is not useful?

The idea is to accomodate more practice, not cure a flinch....

www.Hendershots.net has two for sale!

I got one of them!

quote:

Originally posted by Ezra4570:
www.Hendershots.net has two for sale!

Couldn't find them on the web site.

Were they on there or were you just referring us to the web site for the tel no ?