Any stories to share about the CZ 527 in .221 Fireball? I have a hankering for a small action and a FB.

What do you think about the rifle and its ability to shoot the FB a little slower, down to Hornet velocities - probably with a 45g bullet, but that's adjustable, depending on what shoots best.

(And no thanks I wouldn't rather have a .223. )

Jaywalker

I have both the Fireball and the Hornet in the CZ and have to say that I use the Hornet about 90 percent of the time. A lot of folks will try to disuade you from the Hornet citing poor accuracy, short brass life etc. I think their problems come from trying to get 3200 fps from that little case.

The Fireball is a great little round also. My load is 15 grains of Lil Gun, a 50 grain Sierra Blitz over CCI small rifle primers. Mine likes 50 grain bullets much better than 40s or 45s. Accuracy is great and it simply flattens chucks and crows out to about 300 yards. It is not as quiet as the Hornet but adds about 100 - 150 yards to the effective range. But most of my shots are taken south of 200 yards so the Hornet fits my needs most of the time.

Thanks. Did you ever load it down to Hornet levels? I'm looking for Hornet velocity and sound...

Jaywalker

AWESOME little rifle, mine has great wood, the set trigger is wonderful, very easy on powder while giving good velocities and wonderful accuracy.

Mine loves 40 gr vmax's or barnes varminators over 15-16 grs of LilGun. Most loads giver me right at 3400 fps.

My favorite load is 15.5 gr of LIlGun over a CCI 450 primer with a barnes varminator on top puts 5 shots under a 1/2" most times and is just nicely at 3400 fps. great chuck and pdog load.

I rank it right next to my 6mm tcu bullberry contender as my favorite varmint gun. I think its even more fun than my cooper 223.

What amazes me most is I get 3400 fps with only 15.5 grs of LilGun, my cooper 223 needs 27.3 grs of benchmark to get 3660 fps. The fireball is super efficient.

jaywalker,

13gr AA1680...2700 or so.

Rich
DRSS

Okay, thanks.

I had read rumors that the set trigger had a bit of overtravel. Anything to that?

Jaywalker

Maybe this will help?
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=486101365#486101365

Thanks.

Jaywalker

Not being facetious here, but if it's Hornet velocities and decibel levels you want why would you buy a Fire Ball? Get a Hornet.
I've got CZ's in both rounds and both shoot excellently (actually the Hornet has been rebuilt as a .17 Ackley Hornet) but it shot exceptionally well as a .22 Hornet. I agree with Crowrifle a hundred percent by the way in his statements about peoples "supposed" problems with the Hornet.
My Hornet load is 13.1 grains of Lil'Gun in a WW case with a WW primer under a 40 V-Max. Get's right at 3,000 ( which is already faster velocity than the Hornet was ever designed or expected to get by a fair margin) and shoots bug holes. Great rifle and great round as well.

Doug & Crowrifle are right on. I live in the country but still want to keep the noise down. My CZ hornet lives outside the gunsafe for feral cats, skunks, badgers, coyotes, and magpies around the place.
The load I use is 13.3 grs. of Lil'Gun / 40gr Speer and CCI small pistol primers in Win. brass.
I own 7 other 22CF rifles but shoot the hornet the most by far. Pedro

PS. - I spent less then 10mins. adjusting the set trigger on my CZ and it breaks crisp at 32ozs. & 10ozs.

No, I don't take offense at the suggestion, since I do want quiet and accuracy, but I've wanted a Fireball in a short action for 40 years.

It's interesting to hear that you guys don't find the Hornet finicky, though, since I've been earing that for almost as long.

Jaywalker

There are a lot of arm-chair specialists that have heard stories passed on for years and without ever having the round in a rifle repeat the stories like they came down off the mountain from the burning bush.
For years I had a friend that though he shot a lot and even reloads commercially, assured me "without doubt" that as finicky as I was about accuracy the .22 Hornet with all the "fliers" and "squashed cases" etc would drive me crazy! I've never had a Hornet that threw fliers and never squashed a case.
Also as crowrifle said a lot of guys try to turn the venerable old Hornet into something it's not, a .222 and create their own problems.
Long story shot I have another friend with a sporting goods store that guaranteed me that if I bought an Anschutz hornet and it didn't shoot he'd give me back my money. My first 5 shot hundred yard group with Lil'Gun and the 40 V-Max was in the .3's.
I'm going to repost a picture that I've posted before when similar questions come up (sorry). The story is that after finding out a lot of the "I know for a fact"! Made up opinions from the arm-chair crowd are full of beans I gave up listening to them. I now shoot exclusively sub .22 caliber wildcats (the ones they all said fouled after 15 shots and would never shoot in the wind, HA-HA-HA!!!).
Another long story short I bought a CZ American in .22 Hornet to turn into a .17 Ackley Hornet (absolutely LOVE it!!). I wanted to shoot it first for a performance baseline before the conversion. I grabbed an MTM box off 50 rounds worked up for my Anschutz, they are a reasonable load, chambered well and off to the range we went. After a bit of break-in and sight in I shot this 5 shot 100 yard group with a load worked up for another rifle.



How'd it shoot as a .17 Ackley Hornet?




One last thing, I have an Anschutz Exemplar bolt hand gun with a 10 inch barrel in .22 Hornet (.2 heavier charge than the rifle at 2,680ish). It has a 3X12 Burris BallisticPlex handgun scope on it. It shot this 5 shot group at 100 yards and it's not a fluke.



I've heard some of the Ruger Hornets with the two piece bolt were a bit problematic but haven't shot one and know quite a few guys that have em and swear by em.
Bottom line for me? If you get an accurate rifle the Hornet is a sweet heart!
Don't buy old wives tales that were started in the 40's from guys that have never had one or just had one and that particular rifle was a turd as can happen with anything.
All this is just the opinion of a die-hard small caliber junkey that was chased away from some awful great rounds for a lot of years and finally wised up.
Sorry for rambling.

I know they had a lot of problems with the difference between .223 and .224, and I expect some of the stories of finicky Hornets came from that. The case thickness isn't very great, though, so that's very probably the source of the "crushed case" stories. What do you guys do to prevent that?

Jaywalker

I weight segregate my brass in MTM boxes of 50. After shooting the first time I neck size only and each batch of ammo only goes into one weapon. When a batch gets too long I trim all 50 and I keep track of how many times each batch has been fired in the box. I can take all my ammo boxes for each weapon and tell you pretty close to exactly how many times that weapons has been fired in it's life. I have some cases that have been fired 7 or 8 times and are still going strong, but as crowrifle says I don't try to make the Hornet something it's not by overloading it.

As to squashing cases it's just never happened so I have no idea where that one came from.
For what it's worth all I use is WW brass as that is what both my Anschutz Hornets prefer for best accuracy.

I hadn't got as far as looking at powder loads for the .221 yet, but I was surprised to see it's about twice as much L'il Gun as the Hornet. That means close to twice as loud, I imagine. Yeah, I'll think about the Hornet.

How about the 527 itself? Does the set trigger need anything to make it good? Does the barrel need to be floated? Anything?

Jaywalker

First if I were talking .221 with ya I'd recommend AA1680 as opposed to Lil'Gun and shoot 40 grain V-Max's as that combo works so well in mine and my shoot'n pardners. 20.2 grains of 1680 under said V-Max in my rifle clocks 3,575ish and shoots solidly sub half inch 5 shot groups. The Hornet shooting 13.1 grains of Lil'Gun and the same V-Max clocked a titch over 3,000 and shot similar groups. Amazing performance for what a CZ American 527 costs.
As to triggers and barrel floating on CZ's both are easily done at home. The 527 triggers will usually adjust unset to about 2 1/2 lbs and set I do right at 1 lb give or take. Nothing to floating a barrel, a lot of em shoot just fine as they come from the factory I know mine did. The only thing I did to it before it shot the group posted above is adjust the trigger and break-in the barrel a bit.
I'm not a CZ rep by the way but I do shoot a lot of sub .22 caliber wildcats and CZ 527's make a great reasonably priced platform to build off of. They are perhaps a bit coarse compared to some but to date (knock wood) I've yet to have one that didn't shoot, (good steel, straight actions). Between my shooting pardner and I we have as memory serves 15 or 16 of em. Neat little action.
I'm sure you'd like which ever you picked be it .221 or Hornet.

Okay, so the barrel doesn't always need to be floated, but the trigger normally needs to be adjusted?

Jaywalker

Triggers a piece of cake! Just adjust the factory trigger yourself or have a smith tweak it so it doesn't have to be set and breaks at a crisp pound. Last thing I'd worry about on a CZ is the trigger.

CZ527s come with a floating barrel. They also have some sort of semi-hard(hot glue) bedding compound in the front lug well. I normally glassbed everything but shot my CZ hornet first. It shot honest 5 shot groups from .5-.75. so I didn't mess with it.

My CZ had the eastyest trigger I have ever adjusted.

That sounds good. I've done a few trigger, floated a few barrels, and glassed some more. It got to the point that I got tired of "project" rifles and tweaking them to acceptable levels - it's good to hear it isn't always necessary.

Jaywalker

I know what ya mean Jaywalker, spent 6 or 7 hundred dollars on a starter kit. That sure isn't my view of CZ 527's. The trigger is a 45 minute project on the first one ya do and less on the next one .
That picture I posted was on a brand new Hornet with a 15 minute trigger job and off to the range with a load worked up for another rifle. Nothin to it.
I don't know how they produce the product they do for the price they ask to be honest.
Let us know how it goes.

CZ 527 221 Fireball straight out of the box. 40gr Nosler BT seconds/15gr 2400, range 100 yards, age 12.

Great shooting Jason.
Confirms my theory Jaywalker, you'll be well pleased with which ever you decide on.

Liked what everyone had to say about the cz so I ordered one in a 221 fireball yesterday. Already have one in a custom built rifle and an xp. Should be here sometime next week. This will be my first cz product.

Nothing like a new rifle huh? Unless its puppy breath.
You'll love your .221, both my buddy and I have one and they are an ideal combo the 527 and .221. Congrats.

montdoug I looked at one in I believe a hornet. I was impressed with the cz for the money. I have not seen anybody post negative on these particular rifles. I also just traded for a 17 fireball. I can tell you it is a pain in the A$$ making the brass.

I know that AA1680 and WW680 are supposed to be interchangeable. but AA1680 never shined like WW680 did in any of my Hornets. If you have some on your shelf or run accross a pound or two try it with some 40 grain Noslers or Sierras. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

here's my CZ 527 in 221 Fireball. I now have a 3-9x40 Burris ballistic plex in place of the Leupold 6x in the photo. 40 grain Varminators @ 3350 fps over LilGun is my current load. Shoots accurate enough to bust milk jugs at 330 yards. Its a sweet little package. Set trigger is great, 1 lb break