quote:

Originally posted by richj:
Doesn't do anything that my 6.5 Swed won't do better except...it's an ar platform cartridge.

Not quite.

Fits in a modern SA bolt rifle.
Excellent, affordable brass available.
Excellent, highly accurate, affordable factory ammunition, loaded to max pressure/velocity, available widely.

6.5 Creedmoor is a vastly superior cartridge design. If you don't understand, then keep studying cartridge design.

I'm talking about my bolt 6.5 Swed an my AR 6.5 creeedmoor. I use the same ruler for both when I measure groups. :-) that was a joke, but true.

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
6.5 Creedmoor is a vastly superior cartridge design. If you don't understand, then keep studying cartridge design.

For my education ,would you please elaborate on what you think makes it a superior cartridge design? roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
6.5 Creedmoor is a vastly superior cartridge design. If you don't understand, then keep studying cartridge design.

For my education ,would you please elaborate on what you think makes it a superior cartridge design? roger

So what does the "superior design" do ? Make the bullet go faster, make the bullet more accurate, allow the cartridge to be used in a special platform, or what ? I don't get it. What am I missing ?

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
6.5 Creedmoor is a vastly superior cartridge design. If you don't understand, then keep studying cartridge design.

For my education ,would you please elaborate on what you think makes it a superior cartridge design? roger

So what does the "superior design" do ? Make the bullet go faster, make the bullet more accurate, allow the cartridge to be used in a special platform, or what ? I don't get it. What am I missing ?

Yes I'm waiting to hear the answer to this too.....

It's the short/fat/small primer "discussion" . The case is PPC-ish in design.

I shot a 6.5 creedmoor for the first time in a savage model 11.

A couple weeks ago.

I liked it soft recoil low muzzle report. My friend who owned it shot a deer with it a few days later. It worked.

Well I buy one I don't know as with any gun I buy if a free market one comes up for sale at the right price I would.

I don't own a Creedmoor but the Creedmoor is here to stay. Emotions aside, it's a good round with major marketing and backing from ammunitions companies and rifle makers. It has caught fire.

I too get annoyed at people that think the Creedmoor invented pushing 140 grain 6.5 bullets at 2700 fps BUT the Creedmoor certainly made it popular.


Yes, people love to brag about their Creedoor. You have to stay off the forums and crawl in a hole to get away from Creedmoor talk.


Now, people think I'm "old school" when I bring my 308 to a hunt or to the range.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
I don't own a Creedmoor but the Creedmoor is here to stay.

Yes!!! About as long as the .222 Mag. the .264 mag.and the 22 Jet. JMHO. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Dulltool17:

They also note that there is more retained energy at 800 yds that he.308 win.

The same could be said for the 6.5x55 when loaded to modern pressure levels.

Received my Creedmoor barrel for my AR platform a few months ago...I LIKE IT...

I HAVE a 260 Rem switch barrel for my Sav SA, two Swedes, a 6.5 x 284, once a 6.5-06...and all the BS "proving" aside the Creedmoor case incorporates most of the latest "upgrades in thought" for case design...and "I JUST WANTED ANOTHER SOMETHING I DON'T HAVE", to play with.

I will NEVER understand the loudness associated with various cartridges. You can't prove the un-provable, only get louder and louder with personal opinions...if you don't like or want a Creedmoor...forget it...there are plenty who do. EVERY time a cartridge comes out there are plenty who squeal about it.

I've been doing this wildcatting thing a long time and have watched the progression of knowledge in the gun rags, but now with the internet the volume has increased exponentially but the "knowing" hasn't.

I think the Creedmoor is a marginally better design but that doesn't mean it is "better" than the others, EXCEPT MARGINALLY and with hair splitting. So far the accuracy of my Creedmoor isn't any better than the 260 or the 6.5x284...it IS better than the two Swedes, BUT they are military rifles with limited accuracy potential...I'm sure that if I did Swede with a better barrel I could at least equal the accuracy of any 6.5 cartridge.

But it is totally cool to have the semi-auto ability, except for using up ammo at a prodigious rate.

I COULD have had the barrel chambered for 260 Rem or the Grendel(I think) or several other calibers but I chose the Creedmoor this time...the 338 Fed is next and/or maybe a 9.3 or 375...not sure, but I have all winter to decide.

Apples and kumquats CANNOT be compared not matter how hard you try, which is basically what goes on whenever cartridges are compared...I think it gets a bit confusing for the newbies because those in the know are arguing from different points of view and assuming everyone understands the nuances.

LUCK

Alf,
Once again you have baffled me with bull shit!! I have no idea what you just said, but its probably my age and cowboy background and a lack of interest in college, although they let me pass in order to get rid of me, or is that what you just said!

Bartsche,
I would give my right nut to wallow in a dozen 250-3000s...

I just recently picked up a 6.5 Creedmoor in a Mossberg Patriot. I don't much care for the looks of the plastic stock. I may upgrade to a Boyd's.
From what it have shot it, it shoots pretty good. I only have a 50 yd range in my back yard but it can shoot three of Hornady's 120 match ammo into one hole, a bit ragged but one hole.
As far as the cartridge, it comes pretty close to the 250 Imp. that was used to base the line of international cartridges of a few years back.
The cartridge has no real break throughs in design, but it came at a good time and struck a nerve with shooters.
As some say other 6.5's can do anything the Creedmoor does and maybe better. Only with hand loads can this be done.
The Creedmoor does it with factory loads. This is where it shines. You can walk into a store, but the rifle, scope and ammo and be competitive with others that have much more invested in their equipment. Maybe not beat them but give them a good run.
Not many rifle and cartridges have done that.
Leo

One reason I'm thinking about switching from .260 to 6.5 creed is the availability of good factory ammo. Seems like it is going to be the 6.5 of choice and ammo makers appear to be responding. Agree its not much diff from the swede, .260, etc. but for me I like being able to buy good ammo easily.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

quote:

So what does the "superior design" do ? Make the bullet go faster, make the bullet more accurate, allow the cartridge to be used in a special platform, or what ? I don't get it. What am I missing ?

"DISPERSION ! " or a relative lack thereof.

The object of the exercise in precision shooting over distance is to limit the magnitude of variance in data that is part of the conventional gun ballistics cycle.

It is not how fast the bullet is but how little variance there is in velocity and bullet egress disturbances.

This is not solely the virtue of the Creedmoor ! there are a whole host of similarly set up cartridges that do the same.

But Alf can we use standard deviation instead of variance or at least generically, variability. Variance squares the differences and the units are not the same

I just snagged a Savage Axis in 6.5 CM for 4+ bills , lightly used with scope. Needed a rifle to leave@ my other place.
I just hope its powerful enuff to kill hogs

quote:

What makes it better than a .260 Remington in a bolt gun for hunting or target?

George

Answer: Nothing - for 99.999% of shooters. 6.5 Creedmoor has a sexy name and massive hype. It is a good round but unless you are trying for tiny groups well beyond 1,000 yards it offers nothing over a .260 and then only a little; most of it's advantages are theoretical. .260 is arguably a better hunting round, but again, differences are minor. I'm a fan of 6.5mm cartridges so am in favor of any growth in popularity for 6.5s, but the hype and claims for the Creedmoor are getting downright silly.

Someone was telling me the other day how superior it is to the.260, which he claimed is "inherently inaccurate". I asked if he could them help me understand how the 1,000 yard national title was won with a .260 a few years ago.

By all means, get a 6.5 Creedmoor if you want one. There's not a thing wrong with it and it is a solid performer. But it is no guided missile death ray, either, despite the current claims.

Good hunting!

The 6.5 / 6.0 Creedmoor is 'so last decade' Hornady have already moved onto their new whizz-kid.
Their latest money-spinner is the 6.5 PRC (Precision Rifle Cartridge, not People's Republic of China)!

https://www.hornady.com/ammuni...-147-gr-eld-match#!/
https://www.hornady.com/ammuni...-precision-hunter#!/
Hornady dubbs it the big brother to the 6.5 Creedmoor

Magnum bolt face required, so new rifles required all-round (cha-ching); same-old same-old.
Keep drinking the kool-aid and keep paying for the manufacturers' executives' private jets

I've not found anything that requires more than a .22lr, .223Rem or .308Win, at least in Europe.
Africa? Now that's different. Pass me my (imaginary for now) 470NE and 416Rigby please!

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
6.5 Creedmoor is a vastly superior cartridge design. If you don't understand, then keep studying cartridge design.

For my education ,would you please elaborate on what you think makes it a superior cartridge design? roger

The shorter length allows long bullets to be seated out where they belong and still allowing an OAL short enough to function in a short action, the others, 260 etc. would require long, high BC bullets to be seated into the ogive.

Large enough case capacity to still allow 2700 fps with high BC bullets.


30* shoulder angle which has long ago shown to provide superior accuracy and resist case stretching. If you like to be constantly trimming and chamfering cases then shoot a case with a 17* or 20* shoulder angle.

The case neck is long enough to allow the cartridge to burn the powder inside the case and not in your chamber throat which will cause rapid throat erosion (ie; 243 etc.)

And you are correct that for some one that just hunts and plinks it doesn't make much difference. But when you shoot matches that are decided by X-count, and 1 point is the difference between First and Fifth place these things make a big difference,

Why NOT...and all the positive "stuff" above...

Doesn't matter a whit if all this hoohaw has any redeeming quality or not...I WANT TO MAKE THAT CHOICE, not leave it to some shriveled up, pinched face, pencil necked, pencil pushing, nickel snatching, soulless, penny pincher.

I have to wonder about the "stupid" part...without "something old and something new" this world would still be throwing rocks and you WOULDN'T HAVE THE 'NET AND FORUMS to whine on.

I have a couple of Swedes, a 260 Rem swap barrel, a Creedmoor, a 6.5-284(1-8 twist), I've had 6.5-06 and a 264 WM(for a short time), worked with a 6.5/505 Gibbs for gods sake(not mine but a gunsmith I worked for in HS)and I MIGHT have a 26 Nosler someday(I have a 32" 28 Nos barrel on order as we speak)and all you have to do is look at a few accuracy forums to see the many variations to find the "Optimum" case volume for Optimum accuracy and efficiency potential for the 6 and 6.5 calibers.

The gun makers jumped on the Creedmoor wagon when it was just starting to roll and are beating the Heck out of that poor horse to get all the mileage and speed they can before we gullible, fickled and silly shooting public find ANOTHER poor horse to beat.

Hey...I LIKE my AR-15 Creedmoor...and ALL the rest of my 6.5's.

Good Hunting

quote:

Originally posted by NONAGONAGIN:
... ANOTHER poor horse to beat.

Your prayers have been answered with the 6.5 PRC!
And if not a Hornady fan, how about the latest, shiniest, new fangled cartridge from Federal: the .224 Valkyrie
The band-wagon of new products is never ending

http://www.federalpremium.com/224-valkyrie/

Yeah...Well...the Valkyrie has been around a LONG time...BOTH The 240 Badger...AKA 6mm-284 and the 224 Valkyrie...AKA 22-284, were written up in Precision Times back in 1992. I had BURNED up 2 - 22 cal barrels and one 6mm barrel several years BEFORE that write up. I started with those hot rock 284 'cats somewhere in the mid 70's...I think.

I DO LIKE the 284 case and the 6 and 6.5-284's. I did another 6-284 (faster twist) barrel on a XP-100 receiver over two years ago but haven't had much luck with the long, heavy bullets so lost interest...found a couple or 8 new loves to stroke. It's giving me the evil eye and starting to rust because I didn't coat it and it's a CM barrel. BUT...it's top of my todo list along with a 220 Swift fast twist and a 20 Practical that ALL need paint jobs...just as soon as it warms up enough for the paint to set.

Hey...the more the merrier, RIGHT!!!! You CAN'T have too many guns, nor too many of one caliber.

Good Hunting

The Valkyrie is a 30 Remington case shortened and necked to .224”. It allows you to use a .56 or .6 BC bullet in an AR-15. That’s a worthwhile project.

quote:

Originally posted by Alf
This is not solely the virtue of the Creedmoor! there are a whole host of similarly set up cartridges that do the same.

It seems that scaling existing proportions and shapes up and down is considered "design" these days. Nothing really innovative about it. Nothing wrong with it either though... nature of the beast really, to copy what works well. Still, seems like mostly marketing hype.

quote:

Originally posted by montea6b:

quote:

Originally posted by Alf
This is not solely the virtue of the Creedmoor! there are a whole host of similarly set up cartridges that do the same.

It seems that scaling existing proportions and shapes up and down is considered "design" these days. Nothing really innovative about it. Nothing wrong with it either though... nature of the beast really, to copy what works well. Still, seems like mostly marketing hype.

The 6.5 Creedmoor also gives good barrel life. My 6.5x284 barrel was shot out in 800 rounds and I kept pressures down in my loads. What are this host of other cartridges that are just as good??? Give me some examples that don't knock your head off with recoil and burn out barrels excessively fast.

Nothing sells rifles, ammo and reloading equipment like a 'new' cartridge!
Or a Democrat President

"The Spice must flow" and so does money...if not "sh**" happens...

What's that ya'll say now days..."My Bad"...should have looked closer when the word "Fed" appeared...SOMEONE plagiarized the word "Valkyrie" and stuck it on a shill...but yeah...the "Valkyrie" is nothing but the 22 x 30 Rem(or in todays parlance the 22 x 6.8 SPC ), I'm SURE I read something about one in somewhere???...and I'm guessing that someone did it back about the same time the 22-250 and others of that ilk were being developed, and it lost out to the slightly larger case for those receivers.

Doesn't matter tho'...today is another "modern" day and we have the hindsight of history and modern technology...AND new multi-shooters.

I godda keep up with the times...new "stuff" is coming out faster than I can read.

Good Hunting

My region of NY just opened to rifle for the first time in living memory. Santa's Helper said she wouldn't try to buy me a rifle, but said I should go pick one out.

Years back I used to do a lot of handloading and have some old issues of Handloader Magazine I keep. One of those, #110 from Jul/Aug 1984, had a wildcat cartridge I have always considered the ideal whitetail round. Ken Waters called it the .263 Express and was one he developed in 1956 by necking up a .243 Win case to 6.5mm to be a short-action ballistic twin of the 6.5x55mm Swede. The "short-action" he had in mind at the time was the Savage 99. He chose a 1:8" twist and .263" instead of .264", which was more common in the US at the time, but it is otherwise what we have as the .260 Rem.

In the store there was one rifle in .260 Rem (and none in 6.5x55mm). A Savage M11. A quick check made sure it had 1:8" twist and it went home with me.

No denying that the 6.5 Creedmoor is a beautiful cartridge. I can see where someone on an AR platform would favor it for it's shorter overall length.

Being a handloader, I have no fear at all of the availability of .260 Rem components. I've already put enough on the shelf to keep me shooting for years. ;-)

I have just enough throat to set the Hornady 143 gr ELD-X at 2.900 O.A.L. (0.10" longer than SAAMI or the .308 Win and still retain 0.015" freebore) and stuff as much H4831 or H4350 in as I care or dare to (just a bit of "crunch" when I seat the bullet) so my case capacity is fine. Savage was thoughtful to give me more magazine clearance than I needed (3.000 OAL would still work if needed).

I also have some Norma 156 gr Oryx bullets to play with, that actually sit only 0.017" deeper than the ELD-X bullets.

In this part of NY I don't have much opportunity for long range - the deer are pretty savvy and go to cover when the noise and smells of deer season move in. Most of the deer I have shot are inside of 40 yards. But now as need or opportunity shows itself I will have no hesitation to reach out to 300 yards if a shot is offered. And I hope to pester some coyotes as well.

I'll probably build a 250-3000 or a 7x57..I have bullets and brass for them galore. and I love my 6x45 Sako L-461 custom..

Someone should convert the unpopular .30 T/C into a 7.62 Creedmoor. ;-)