What do y'all think? Is a .223 enough for medium game?

Couldn't resist!

Dunno. Is a .270 adequate for elk?

Sam

what? A .223 for deer? You gotta use a premium heavy bullet just to keep it from laughing at you and killing you---that's deer that are on the internet. For all others a 55 grain cup and core plain old bullet in the right spot works well.

Sure, if that's all you got.

There are better options.

A .223 is fine for medium game, but if you want it well done better use at least a .270 WCF.



.

quote:

Sure, if that's all you got.
There are better options.

My God, there are people out there that actually understand the situation!!!!!!!!

Will wonders never cease?????????

I wouldn't use it, but Speer makes a 70 grain .224 round nose bullet designed for deer. Round nose so that it will stabilize in most slow rifling twists. It is pretty accurate in my .222 and my .225. The .223 was designed for (if not designed for, then used for) killing men by our military. Is a man harder to kill than a deer? I guess not.
joe

Wake me up on page 5.

Working on 60 grain Nosler PT and 64 gain bonded core loads yesterday afternoon.

Plan to try the most accurate, or both this season.

For the same money tied up in a 223, a real hunter could have a real deer rifle, instead of a fantasy zombie killer.

KB

It must be that time of year again. I took 2 last year with mine and will probably take a few more with it this year.

I might even take the AR-15 out a few times this year. I put another barrel on it and might have to give it a try.

I've never had any trouble with the .223. I know it's limitations and stay within them. Those 62gn TSX's and a fast twist barrel do a fine job on whitetail deer out to about 200yds.

I hope everyone has a great season.

Terry

If I had a 223, I would use it. It's a sweet shooting cartridge, especially for wussies. For the situations I hunt in nowadays, with the exception noted below, I'm sure it would be enough rifle, since I'm able to pick my shots and mostly meat hunt.

However, I would probably be a bit uneasy about shooting a real large trophy buck with a 223.

Since I don't have a 223, it's not a problem.

KB

quote:

However, I would probably be a bit uneasy about shooting a real large trophy buck with a 223.

There it is folks, in plain/simple English, and it is the EXACT same comment that the majority of .223 users I have talked to have expressed.

Shooting does/fawns/culls with a .223 is not an issue, but let the possibility of an Actual TROPHY Buck being part of the equation, and the .223 stays in the case/gun rack.

If it is such a great/reliable deer killer, why not use it on the trophies as well as the less important animals?

Carpetman must be hunting with his 223 otherwise I think he would jump in especially with his nemesis KB posting on the thread.

LOL Scott I have never killed a deer with a .223. I did kill one with a 22-250. The .222 and .223 deer I have posted about were nephews, grandsons etc. The last time I went, I didn't get a shot, but I was carrying my .223 vs the .243 I have used past several years. Truth is, I wont shoot a deer anymore unless I know someone that wants it. I also don't go hunting until it has gotten cold to get rid of the flies. With our long season, I can wait. Now ole Kb, everyone knows about him. He screwed up a shot with a .257R, but you could substitute any cal and with him it would be true, he has messed up a shot with what ever you can name. I think part of it is the golf cart he hunts from doesn't have a rest on it. Also if his buddy is not around to tell him his rifle is not sighted in, he misses some shots. He doesn't spell so well, recently he posted he has done well with grendels, but he meant grenades. He can sometimes hit em with grenades.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

However, I would probably be a bit uneasy about shooting a real large trophy buck with a 223.

There it is folks, in plain/simple English, and it is the EXACT same comment that the majority of .223 users I have talked to have expressed.

Shooting does/fawns/culls with a .223 is not an issue, but let the possibility of an Actual TROPHY Buck being part of the equation, and the .223 stays in the case/gun rack.

If it is such a great/reliable deer killer, why not use it on the trophies as well as the less important animals?

I've seen my share of .223 kills, and I allowed my then 9 year old daughter to use one in OK where it's legal for the last two years. She's 11 now and she'll be using the .300 Savage because she's trying to work up to elk.

I can tell you I wouldn't hesitate to use the .223 and 55 grain TSX on any trophy buck. Trust me that deer won't laugh it off and it'll punch through shoulder bone quite nicely. My only complaints with the .223 is a lack of decent blood trail, and effective range.

That said all of the kills I've been around are pretty much bang flops, and the .223 works well at any distances most would be comfortable with a .30-30. My Daughter hasn't had a shot over 150 yet, but I've set her up as well for success. Realize the .223's limitations and you'll kill the biggest white tail or mule deer with ease.

quote:

I can tell you I wouldn't hesitate to use the .223 and 55 grain TSX on any trophy buck. Trust me that deer won't laugh it off and it'll punch through shoulder bone quite nicely. My only complaints with the .223 is a lack of decent blood trail, and effective range.

You Sir are in a very small minority with that statement.

As I said, and people have made that exact comment on here on this very issue.

They are all for using the .223, UNLESS an actual Trophy Buck is in the equation. I am not making that shit up. On this site, other sites, real life/real time discussions, if an actual Trophy Buck is or could be part of the equation, the .223 will be left at home and something bigger will be used.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I can tell you I wouldn't hesitate to use the .223 and 55 grain TSX on any trophy buck. Trust me that deer won't laugh it off and it'll punch through shoulder bone quite nicely. My only complaints with the .223 is a lack of decent blood trail, and effective range.

You Sir are in a very small minority with that statement.

As I said, and people have made that exact comment on here on this very issue.

They are all for using the .223, UNLESS an actual Trophy Buck is in the equation. I am not making that shit up. On this site, other sites, real life/real time discussions, if an actual Trophy Buck is or could be part of the equation, the .223 will be left at home and something bigger will be used.

Never thought I'd be in the majority, I just have faith in my shooting ability and confidence in good bullets. Every deer I hunt doe or buck gets treated the same, if I wouldn't hunt a trophy buck with a cartridge I wouldn't hunt a doe with it either. I don't understand hunters who think there's any difference.

Well, from past discussions on this subject, including ones on here, many folks seem to not be as confident as you are.

I have seen and cleaned several deer that were one shot kills with a .223. I know it will kill deer if used within the parameters of its limitations and those of the shooter.

It is when people that sing the praises of the .223 as a deer gun, stipulate that they won't use the .223 if an actual trophy deer is on the menu, that I have a problem.

CHC--You seem to be about the only one promoting the theory of not using on a trophy buck. You often add that caveat. I don't see the ones that do it adding it. Hell those horns don't make em bullet proof.

For a lot of us with limited access and time, a genuine opportunity at any nice old buck with a big rack is a true rarity. A little more bullet weight and diameter ensures two big holes to leave lots of blood even if the shot angle isn't a perfect broadside. I think this is extra insurance most are willing to pay so that they can be absolutely certain of taking home their big buck, should they find him.

I shot a small hog with 62 grain TSX bullets out of a Colt M4 and was thoroughly underwhelmed. While it very well may have run just as far as if I had shot it with my .270, there was zero blood through some thick, nasty central Florida bush. Fortunately I had the dog on hand and he solved the mystery of the missing piggy in short order.

In the end, I know you can kill deer with a .223, but with so many better options, why bother?

quote:

CHC--You seem to be about the only one promoting the theory of not using on a trophy buck. You often add that caveat. I don't see the ones that do it adding it. Hell those horns don't make em bullet proof.

The reason you don't see it is because you don't want too. Your the one that openly praises the virtues of the .223 as a deer killer, but if I remember correctly, you have openly stated that you personally rarely if ever use the .223 for your own deer hunting.

This is not the only forum I am on, and I also visit with a good many hunters during the year.

So I get quite a cross section of opinions concerning the use of various calibers for hunting deer.

Since you have forgotten, there was a poll done on this site, in this topic section last year on the use of the .223/.224 rifles for deer and those calibers came out on the short end of the stick.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
For a lot of us with limited access and time, a genuine opportunity at any nice old buck with a big rack is a true rarity. A little more bullet weight and diameter ensures two big holes to leave lots of blood even if the shot angle isn't a perfect broadside. I think this is extra insurance most are willing to pay so that they can be absolutely certain of taking home their big buck, should they find him.

I shot a small hog with 62 grain TSX bullets out of a Colt M4 and was thoroughly underwhelmed. While it very well may have run just as far as if I had shot it with my .270, there was zero blood through some thick, nasty central Florida bush. Fortunately I had the dog on hand and he solved the mystery of the missing piggy in short order.

In the end, I know you can kill deer with a .223, but with so many better options, why bother?

Because I enjoy using it. I guess for the same reason some others prefer to hunt with handguns on occasion, others bow hunt all season and some enjoy harvesting deer with elephant rifles. All are somewhat limiting but if the hunter prefers to use them and they are legal, what's the problem? Here in Mississippi our hunting season is 4 months long and opportunities to harvest aren't rare. The deer here aren't that big and the .223 in my hands handles them just fine. I wait for the shot to present itself and I don't rush things. I've got 4 months to harvest 6 deer and I get to go as much as I want. I even had a drop dead gorgeous custom .223 built for the purpose.

When I hunt my soybean field I usually take my .264WM, when I hunt my wooded property sometimes I choose my .223. I've had to pass up shots on good deer using both. That's just part of hunting. I don't use a .223 exclusively, I've got a .338-06 in the safe that's been calling my name for the last couple of seasons and I think I'm going to do some hunting it this year too .

Yes, the .223 does limit your opportunities. That said, so do most other cartridges to some extent or another. If you wanted to stick strickly to that logic as some here seem to, why use a .257R when the Lazzeroni Scramjet and Warbird are avalible?

I think a lot of this boils down how, where and our oppotunities to harvest. Crazyhorseconsulting is right about this, if I only got to go hunting a few times a year I probably wouldn't understand using a .223 either but, that's not my case. If it cost me an arm and leg and each trip was a substantial investment the .223 wouldn't get out of the safe. If I paid someone a lot of money to take me hunting and point out a deer to shoot I definatly would take something bigger. In my case none of that applies. I've got 4 months to harvest 6 deer and I could do it in the first week of hunting season if I wanted to. Not everybody's situation is the same. It's easy to pick out scenarios where the .223 wouldn't be appropriate , it's just as easy to pick one's where it is. It's a shame some can't take that into consideration.

Ya'll have a good time with this and I hope everyone has a great season this year!

Terry

CHC--You have a GREAT memory. You stated if you remember correctly I have stated I don't use the .223 hunting. HMMMM just a few posts back I stated that, but have seen it done numerous times. I also stated I was in fact carrying a .223 last time I hunted but didn't get a shot. That poll you mentioned had more OPINIONS from folks that had never been there done that nor seen it done. Those with ACTUAL experience gave a much different view. Go back and review the numerous times this subject has came up and it's ALWAYS CHC promoting that people wouldn't use it on trophy buck. BTW I would.

Blah, Blah, Blah, and the beat goes on.

Anyone is free to use whatever caliber/cartridge that is legal where they hunt, that they choose too.

I have no problem with that. It is their choice and if they are happy with the results, that is their business.

My problem is when someone/anyone does not openly admit that certain cartridges/calibers have more limitations in regard to usage than other calibers/cartridges do.

As I said in the past on this subject, at one time I recommended the use of .222 and .223 rifles for beginning hunters, especially kids and women.

As I researched things a little more, I realized that I was doing the same thing as folks that start their kids out bird hunting with a .410.

The smaller rifles and the .410 actually require more skill and knowledge, because of their limitations. With the advancement in stock designs, there really is no excuse to start a beginning hunter, especially deer hunters with anything smaller than a .243.

I have seen plenty of white tails killed with a .222/.223, as I have said before I have killed a deer with a .22 Hornet and know folks that have killed plenty of deer with a .22LR.

All I am saying and have been saying is that just because it can be and is done, I do not believe it is the best choice.

Your last line speaks volumes, CHC, and fits ALL forums no matter what the subject.

I can't understand the reasoning behind some arguments, but that doesn't stop the arguments from coming and coming and coming.

Just like politics, "spin doctoring" on AR is just words without meaning.

Well TC1, I do envy you for your opportunities.

Maybe someday...

Best of luck this season.

My biggest problem is that CHC posted that the .223 wasn't good for trophy animals. My question is why do we treat "does/fawns/culls" differently? You can't tell my daughter that these weren't trophies.

Age 9



Age 10



They were sure as hell were trophy memories to me. I'd never saddle my daughter with a rifle/cartridge that I didn't trust or wouldn't use to get the job done.

I hear ya. Great post.

Taylorforce1--I think it's great that you are getting youth involved, especially a girl, and I believe you are doing it correctly. Her chances are much better with a smaller cal she can handle than what they would be with a cannon she is afraid of. While the doe has no antlers to mount, you can still make her a trophy. Take the ankles and bend into a 90 degree angle and tie in that position. Soak in a mixture of 1 1/2 cups of 20 Mule Team Borax and gallon of water, soak 3 days. The Borax will prevent it from stinking and those ankles will hold that bend as if welded. Mount on a board using lag bolts into the hollow of the leg. The hooves pointing up. This makes a neat hat rack or gun rack. You can shine the hooves with shoe polish. You can also remove the bone from the tail and soak that in the Borax and mount it to the board as a decoration. Even without the "trophy" you created memories for both you and your daughter that neither of you will forget---good job. As you stated, the rifle/cartridge will get the job done---the pictures prove that. Who would possibly say your daughter is not a happy camper? Best of luck to her on the elk.

CHC-Of course the .223 has limitations. Name one that doesn't. I know many magnum users have the "hit em anywhere" attitude because it is a magnum and that aint true, guy at the gun counter may have said it, but it's false. Bad shot is a bad shot regardless of the size of the gun.

quote:

My biggest problem is that CHC posted that the .223 wasn't good for trophy animals.

Taylor, you really need to learn how to read.

I never said that .223's were not good enough for "Trophy" Animals.

I said that many hunters that believe in using the .223's when hunting does, openly admit that they use larger calibers if they are going somewhere where an actual TROPHY buck was a possibility.

Their words, Not Mine. I have seen plenty of deer killed with .223's and skinned and gutted plenty of deer killed with .223's.

And just for your information, all I ever hunt anymore is does. I seriously doubt that you have figured out how to make antlers taste good or were tender, Now Have You?

How about a blast from the past for all you no remembering anything nimrods.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...91/showpollresults/Y

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
CHC-Of course the .223 has limitations. Name one that doesn't. I know many magnum users have the "hit em anywhere" attitude

I hit em in the ass with magnums and let the shock wave kill them.

This is such a tired argument. Bow hunters hunt trophies. Bow hunters have to get close and take very specific shots. You have to be more selective with your shots with a bow than a 223.

As long as it's legal in your state, you should hunt with whatever you are comfortable with.

It's funny that this topic comes up every year. I don't feel the need to hunt deer with a 223 because I have 7 other medium/big game cartridges that I'm more comfortable with.

How can I condemn anyone else for using it if I've never tried it? Obviously many people have a lot of success using that caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

My biggest problem is that CHC posted that the .223 wasn't good for trophy animals.

Taylor, you really need to learn how to read.

I never said that .223's were not good enough for "Trophy" Animals.

I said that many hunters that believe in using the .223's when hunting does, openly admit that they use larger calibers if they are going somewhere where an actual TROPHY buck was a possibility.

Their words, Not Mine. I have seen plenty of deer killed with .223's and skinned and gutted plenty of deer killed with .223's.

And just for your information, all I ever hunt anymore is does. I seriously doubt that you have figured out how to make antlers taste good or were tender, Now Have You?

I love the I only hunt for does anymore comment, it's way too funny. Does that win you some kind of special award or make you a higher and mightier hunter? I hunt whatever my tag is good for, one area that I hunt only recently started issuing doe tags in the last three years.

I clearly understood that you said it other postesr and people said the .223 wasn't on the table for trophy deer. What I understood as well is that you aren't in total disagreement with this line of thinking as well. You've practically said as much in your other comments on this topic.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
The smaller rifles and the .410 actually require more skill and knowledge, because of their limitations. With the advancement in stock designs, there really is no excuse to start a beginning hunter, especially deer hunters with anything smaller than a .243.

I never needed an excuse to hunt or let my daughter hunt with a .223. I let my daughter choose what rifle she was going to use, and she picked the one she shot the best and had the most confidence in. Which is what I'd have done as well if she had me pick it for her as well.

What about this do you NOT understand????

If a person is content with the results they are getting, regardless the caliber, then by all means stick with it, but that does not mean that EVERYONE else is going to agree that it is the best choice.

And the reasons I hunt does are two fold, One, antlers don't cook very good, and TWO, In the counties I hunt in I can kill a total of 5 deer during the season, that means Lora and I can kill 10 deer between the two of us.

At no point in any of these dead end discussions have I EVER said that a .223 Will Not Kill Deer, I just believe that it is NOT THE BEST OPTION in all situations.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
What about this do you NOT understand????

I understand you well enough, and you have your own problems as well.

quote:

If a person is content with the results they are getting, regardless the caliber, then by all means stick with it, but that does not mean that EVERYONE else is going to agree that it is the best choice.

I never said it was the best choice. I said I wouldn't hesitate to use it, that I have faith in my ability to shoot it and confidence in good bullets. I also stated my perceived limitations of the cartridge, and again they are lack of blood trail and limited range.

quote:

And the reasons I hunt does are two fold, One, antlers don't cook very good, and TWO, In the counties I hunt in I can kill a total of 5 deer during the season, that means Lora and I can kill 10 deer between the two of us.

I don't care why you choose to hunt what you hunt, I just find it funny that you think this factoid is relevant to the discussion. I also fail to see how corn fed (you've stated you use feeders before) deer are going to "cook" differently based on sex, handle the meat properly and deer of like ages are going to taste pretty much the same. Plus killing bucks is a good management tool when used in conjunction with hunting does to maintain a healthy herd. Ignoring on sex is never a good thing just ask a biologists.

quote:

At no point in any of these dead end discussions have I EVER said that a .223 Will Not Kill Deer, I just believe that it is NOT THE BEST OPTION in all situations.

No you haven't, you've just been hiding behind disclaimers like "the majority of .223 users have expressed", "in my research", or my favorite "I used a .22 Hornet once". These are not strong arguments to get your point across especially when you stay very vague without discussion of key points of your research or perceived shortcomings of the cartridge. Your best defense so far is to type in all caps a few words and imply a comprehension problem on my part.

I am merely stating my opinions and passing along information I have gathered over the years.

I did not say the "Majority" of hunters that use the .223, won't use them on actual Trophy bucks, I said that "Many" .223 users have openly stated, both verbally in face to face discussions and written(typed) on the various forums, that they opt for something larger.

There are any number of reasons why they make that choice, the point is they Do Make That Choice.

Their reasons for making that choice are relevant to themselves, but in the overall scheme of the discussion those reasons are irrelevant, it is the fact that they make the choice.

As far as your comments about my including comments about hunting does being irrelevant, they are just as relevant to me as your comments are to you.

And since deer hunting is big business here in Texas, many paying hunters really don't shoot enough does on any property to maintain a healthy buck to doe ratio in the area, and I have shot more than enough bucks in my lifetime, so being able to take out the animal other hunters won't makes sense.

Three FACTS still remain regardless of your opinion or comments.

1. I have NEVER said that a .223 will NOT kill a deer.

2. I have NEVER said that a person HAS TO USE A MAGNUM OF ANY SIZE when hunting deer.

3. The .223 is NOT THE IDEAL OPTION for deer in all circumstances when a shot is presented.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I am merely stating my opinions and passing along information I have gathered over the years.

I did not say the "Majority" of hunters that use the .223, won't use them on actual Trophy bucks, I said that "Many" .223 users have openly stated, both verbally in face to face discussions and written(typed) on the various forums, that they opt for something larger.

So you never said majority, well I guess it could have been a typo.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

There it is folks, in plain/simple English, and it is the EXACT same comment that the majority of .223 users I have talked to have expressed.

Like I said you never once explain your position out side of very vague responses, because you like playing both sides of the fence to keep the argument going. You'll never totally be on one side or the other for fear of making commitment.