The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers Down side of WSM?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I am referring to the 404 Jeffrey case at 2.1†for use in short action. It seems available in 270, 7mm, 300 and 325. I am contemplating a custom 6.5 WSM with thick barrel and heavy glass fibre stock. The whole setup to be sturdy enough to shoot in the same place with and without silencer. I need it for springbok, blesbok and jackal in distance. The gun maker says he will neck down some 270 or 7mm brass for me. Someone said that Lee makes a 6.5 die? I am a layman when comes to specials like this, so please give me the good and especially bad news about this option. Thanx Lochi Hunters pay for conservation. Without funds from hunting the African game cannot survive. www.affordableafricanhunting.com | ||
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Lochi, I am not much of a WSM fan but I am a 6.5 fan. I don't have anything to add, however, I am curious to see how the 6.5 WSM round works for you. I have been thinking of doing something in a sporter. The only problem I have with the WSM is you can't fit as many rounds in the mag. I don't know what improvement it offers over the 264 Win. Lou **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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The 7MM-WSM has a different shoulder angle then the other three. | |||
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One disadvantage of the WSM is that they are difficult to get to feed properly. I have several WSM's and i have converted two of them to single shots. They just dont feed easily. Other than that I suppose they are as good as any other cartridge. I will probably never build another rifles on the WSM or WSSM design.  6x NFR Qualifier NFR Champion Reserve World Champion Bareback Rider PRCA Million Dollar Club 02' Salt Lake Olympic Qualifier and an all around good guy! | |||
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Concur on the comments listed above. However... I have a 6.5WSM as does my hunting partner (we also have .338WSMs). Both guns, with light barrels, shoot very well. For the 6.5s we use .270WSM brass and the .338s, use .325 brass. To correct the feeding problem, try different magazines and followers. This cured our feeding problems in Rem700 short actions. Also, our 'smith modified them slightly to accept cartridges up to 3.1" long. Having had a .264 Mag, I'd have to say the 6.5WSM isn't as hard to find a good load for. Velocities are a little lower, but that is the price you have to pay. Yes, the fatter cartridges reduce your magazine capacity by one. We've skeletonized ours, but that just allowed easier loading. We figure two in the magazine and one up the spout is enough for our hunting needs. .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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Question should have been "What is the up side". Why suffer with a short action, fat dumpy cartridge at all? Just a dumb fad people jumped on. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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I do it for the fish You know, The Halibut!  .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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There is no down side, really. | |||
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If there is no down side then there can be no upside, is that correct? how far have we gotten with no up or down? | |||
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To me a downside would be the lack of reloading dies and brass. You can get dies and brass for the 6.5-06, 6.5x284 and the 6.5 rem mag and get the same performance. The 6.5-06 is a long action but you will get at least one if not 2 more loads in the mag and no feeding problems. There are a lot of benchrest shooters who swear by the 6.5x284 for long range and so there is a big future and lots of info on it. The 6.5 rem mag will push a 140 gr bullet at 3000 fps and the 130 gr bullet at 3100 fps with ease and it is commercially loaded (although like the 264 win mag not with any loads worth a damn). So to me I would let someone else solve the problems with a new case and use a proven caliber. JMHO ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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If you buy a Sako you have no feeding problems and no capacity issues (4 in the magazine). | |||
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hi guys Quote "rickt30 Question should have been "What is the up side". Why suffer with a short action, fat dumpy cartridge at all? Just a dumb fad people jumped on. " WTF are you talking about!! have you not heard of the 6BR or the 6PPC those two "fat dumpy cartridges" hold more records than youve had shits! Not to mention the 22BR 30BR the list goes on and on my friend, in essence a WSM is a BR on steroids, they rule!! I think a 270WSM would be perhaps close enough. Just read a report from a guy who shot a Eland with his Tikka T3 270WSM amongst other plainsgame using 150 gr pills. Food for thought! Regards Runas War is inevitable, if idiots are in charge of countries | |||
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This thread could be a lot shorter, if you had posted it as the "UPSIDE of WSM".... Life Member: The American Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Jan 20, 2009.. Prisoner in Dumocrat 'Occupied America', Partisan in the 'Save America' Underground Beavis..... James Beavis..... Of Her Majesty's Secret Service..... Spell Check Division "Posterity — you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." John Quincy Adams A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a 46." Duhboy....Nuttier than Squirrel Poop... | |||
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 Verbera!, Iugula!, Iugula!!! Blair. | |||
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I think the WSMs are pretty much only dislike by older people. | |||
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Personally I love my 270 wsm and I am quite fond of my 300 wsm. I agree that they are a young person's and or a true gun nut's round. In my personal experience, everybody that I know who dislikes the wsm's is generally against anything new all together. Having said that I think the 6.5 rem mag would fit your bill at a much lower price. Cheaper dies, brass, and established performance with published reloading charts put it ahead in my book. If used with a longer short action like the M1999 where the bullets (i.e. 130-140 grains) can be seated out farther, it will really shine. "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." -- General George S. Patton | |||
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WSMs are mint. i had a 300wsm a year ago but didnt like the rifle so i sold it. If i get another i think ill go the 6.5WSM route...but i also like the idea of a 6.5-06 and a 6.5X55... hell why dont i just get all 3? i really want a 6.5 for reasons unknown to me. anyway i really liked the look of the WSM case, looked beautiful with 190gr vlds stickin out of it! you know you want to build the WSM so stop wasting time and get onto it. | |||
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maybe some of you would like to share your 6.5WSM loads... thanks Montero | |||
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Nothing wrong with the WSM but if you are spending lots of money there are better choices. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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I've been using my 6.5 WSM for deer and antelope for the past few years and love it. It's a great round if your shots tend to be on the far side of 300 yards. There are a few drawbacks though. I've found that when working up loads you need to be really careful, as pressure seems to increase dramatically with very little change in charge (1-2 grains makes a big difference). I've tried H4831, RL22, RL25 and Retumbo in mine; the best accuracty and performance have been with RL25 and Retumbo. I also found that going with standard vs. magnum primers doesn't effect velocity that much, increased accuracy and kept pressure down. If your magazine box permits it, you can also bore the throat out a bit and gain quite a bit of case capacity by seating the bullets way out. The load I've settled on is: 130 gr. accubond Norma 270 WSM Case Fed 210 Primer 61 gr. Retumbo Velocity: 3275 fps While I love this cartridge, if I were to do it again, I'd probably just go with a 270 WSM. It would have been a lot less work! | |||
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thanks, talentrec. I am surprised that only 61gr of Retuimbo can produce such a high speed, though. montero | |||
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Thanx alot guys! Appreciated. Lochi  Hunters pay for conservation. Without funds from hunting the African game cannot survive. www.affordableafricanhunting.com | |||
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Yeah because they have enough experience to know that the WSM don't bring anything new to the table except marking hype..... Nothing new, different box... Life Member: The American Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Jan 20, 2009.. Prisoner in Dumocrat 'Occupied America', Partisan in the 'Save America' Underground Beavis..... James Beavis..... Of Her Majesty's Secret Service..... Spell Check Division "Posterity — you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." John Quincy Adams A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a 46." Duhboy....Nuttier than Squirrel Poop... | |||
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300WSM feeds great in my Winchester 1885 | |||
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Dies happen to be readily available from RCBS, and I know several folks who have 330 WSM/6.5's Most all of them would just do a .270 WSM if they were to do it again. The rifles shoot beautifully, and give them the 6.5 bullet they were after. I can't see where you gain that much, but it is all for fun, a person is pretty much ruling out factory ammo with this decision, so I say go for it if you have other standard rigs....if you only have a couple of rigs I'd probably make it a stock .270 WSM, if not a .270 | |||
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Sure carefully tuned up match cartridges in single shot rifles have shown a trend toward better accuracy. However bullets have improved a lot since the 222 was the king of the hill as has barrel quality. The PPC cartridges have the benefit of almost perfect brass. In a hunting rifle the WSM's show no improvement over many older cartridges. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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Or lack thereof... | |||
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Considering the WSM's in 270 and 300 offered nothing you couldn't get in High Energy or light magnum loading in the 270 and 30-06 they certainly brought nothing new to the table. Other than less magazine capacity and ugly brass maybe. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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I imagine that if the internet was around back when the .308 was introduced, all you '06 toaters would be having the same argument. "These new fangled shells are so small I loose them in my breeches" The fact is you do get slightly better performance than their counterpart with factory loads, slightly faster and flatter. Plus you have the option of a lighter more compact rifle. I have never had a problem with the "fat brass" getting hung up during a follow up shot. Come to think of it, I have never had to make a follow-up shot. If you are new to rifles a WSM is a great option. | |||
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I detect that some people here are having envy over the size of their brass!! 6x NFR Qualifier NFR Champion Reserve World Champion Bareback Rider PRCA Million Dollar Club 02' Salt Lake Olympic Qualifier and an all around good guy! | |||
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Both the 6BR and 6PPC are small cartridges used in single shot bench rest competition. Yeah they share the same length to width proportions. But they are much smaller cartridges. | |||
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In the end you are talking about selling new products because most shooter already have the earlier rounds. All the improvements are slight....if any. Of course if you want to get even slightly better why not use a super short magnum. | |||
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Actually, IMHO its only those people who do not own a WSM that have 'brass envy'  Its been in my experience that those who own the WSM can brush off the insults from non-WSM cause of lack of knowledge, or like you stated "envy". For the record, I one a non-WSM an love it. | |||
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I read many posts of shooters telling us why they don't like the WSM but not too many objectively discussing the downside of the family of calibers. If you don't like a caliber (in this case, the WSM family) it appears to me it would be difficult in being objective while discussing its potential downside. | |||
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1. The fat brass takes up more storage space. 2. I don't have any of the fat brass and I have plenty of the earlier brass. 3. Fat brass with no rim would look really dumb in a Sharps. 4. Fat brass might not fit my funnel. 5. Fat brass will not fit my existing loading blocks. 6. I can't find short fats on the ground at the range. 7. I never buy anything that is going to depreciate a lot and fat brass rifles are going to depreciate. 8. The short fats are more difficult to load in a falling block single shot especially with large hands and a scope. 9. Short fats will not work in a Marlin 336. 10. Short fats are not available in large battle packs at a discount. 11. Shorts fats probably will not work with long skinny bullets. Can you imagine a 6.5 short fat with a 160 grn RN? It might be seated against the primer to get it in the magazine. 12. After the bullet leaves the barrel the case does not matter any more. 13. Do any of the short fats use black powder? 14. How about a short fat in a Contender? 15. Short fat in an Encore? 16. Short fat in anything really cheap like an SKS or a Mosin-Nagant? 17. How about building a custom short fat on a classic double square bridge Oberndorf Mauser? 18. Short fat in a double rifle? 19. Short fart in a Mannlicher Schoenauer? 21. No short fat combination guns or drillings? The short fats do have some design limitations. | |||
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Small caliber bullets with large, steep shoulders can make for feeding difficulties. They seem to be less pronounced with stacked magazines as opposed to staggered magazines. Original Browning and Winchester rifles used staggered magazines to hold 3 down and were plagued with feeding problems, especially the .270 WSM. The larger diameter bullet of the .300 helped it load a little more smoothly. This is about as good as it gets in the WSM lineup (albeit it's a wildcat and belongs in the Medium Bore forum):  Why this isn't commercially available is beyond me, it would probably take a big chunk out of the .325 WSM sales though. A bullet that big really offsets the steep shoulder and should feed quite nicely. IMO Winchester would have been better off with the .270, .300, and .350 as the WSM lineup. The 7mm is nowhere near as popular (I'm seeing markdowns in my local shops as they aren't selling well), and the .350 shooting 250's at 2700fps+ buries the .325. ________  "...And on the 8th day, God created beer so those crazy Canadians wouldn't take over the world..." | |||
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SWEET!! | |||
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smoking lamp is lit. if you gottum, lite up. | |||
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This is such a typical response from the "older" folks as mentioned above. I bought my first rifle last year after 25+ years of hunting big game in Utah. I bought a 300WSM in a Sako Finnlight. 1-21 from above dont mean jack to me in that I dont care about a fart in a mannlicher. I wanted a lightweight rifle in a .30 capable of handling elk. The 300WSM does that. IN FACT IT DOES THAT BETTER THAN ANY OTHER .30 IN A LIGHTWEIGHT RIFLE. | |||
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