I've been presented an option of two Ruger rifles. One is a 257 Roberts ruger Hawkeye in blue and wood the other is a 25-06 Stainless ruger Hawkeye with plastic stock. They are priced the same and both on sale right now.

The use will be deer and antelope up to 350+/- yards. Maybe some coyote shooting, but not likely.

Which do I choose?

I'm torn between owning a "bob" (a great classic) or a functional stainless 25-06. I really don't think one can out do the other in ballistic performance in this range.

If you are not a handloader, I'd pick the 25/06. If you ARE a handloader, IMO, the Bob wins.

I own a Roberts and it does it all for me. I load long and it is chambered with a long throat so I get a bit more out of the rifle. Throating costs money and it would have been cheaper to go 25-06 in the first place.

As a long-range varminter, there is a bit of advantage to the 25-06. The 25-06 burns more powder to do it and I don't like the extra noise. Then, too, powder costs money.

I got the Ackley fever in the past but fire-forming cases is a pain. If you forsee Ackley fever, get the 25-06, it'll be cheaper.

With the 100 grain Speer spitzer, my Roberts might well be capable of a 400 yard shot on a deer or antelope. It shoots as flat as I want for reasonable hunting ranges.

With a 120 grain bullet, the Bob is limited, I believe. A 25-06 would be better on a cow elk hunt if you expected to take a long shot. I have a .35 Whelen, so this is just theory for me.

If it were me, I'd go Bob, especially if it were a nice piece of wood.

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
If you are not a handloader, I'd pick the 25/06. If you ARE a handloader, IMO, the Bob wins.

If you ever consider "taking it outside", the Stainless & Synthetic rifle will be a lot more forgiving. Plus the extra bit of Power at 350yds is ALWAYS nice to have.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

I have shot 25-06 since before commercially availible. With 120gr Partitions and heavier bullets it just does better than the BOB. The 25-06 with 54gr of IMR-7828 and 120gr Partitions is just hard to beat for thin skinned game.

I had this same dilemma back in the late '70's so I bought a .25-06 Mark X barreled action and before I ever shot it, I had it re-chambered to .257 Ackley Improved. I think the AI cartridges look cool!

It shoots 115-120 gr bullets MOA or less at just under 3000 fps. It's my favorite deer-antelope-sheep rifle. It's made one shot kills on at least 30 (each) deer and antelope, 5 sheep, a mountain caribou, and a 330" (net) 6-pt elk.

If I didn't handload, I'd probably go with a .25-06 over a standard .257 Roberts.

Personally I have shot both a lot and I think the Roberts is just cute as hell.
But for my money the 25-06 whether you handload or not is WAAAY more cartridge.
If you were to buy a Remington and have it throated out to where you can take advantage of the long magazine of the 700 you can hand load a 25 to where it will damn sure impress you.
Either way in my opinion there is no comparison, for pure horsepower the 25 runs away from the Roberts.
Unless of course you stifle it in a barrel shorter than 24 inches, in which case you might as well go with the Roberts as all that you would have is a louder Roberts in the short barreled 25.
So decide what you really want in the package first, a short handy 257, or a longer kick ass 25-06.

although some of have wished Ruger would have offered the 257 R in a stainless and synthetic package, I'd still go with the Roberts in the wood package....

If I wanted a Stainless synthetic package that bad, I'd have the 25/06 turned down to a Roberts, " just because"....

I strictly prefer the Roberts.. even if the 25/06 is considered "Superior".....

I don't see a down side to either choice tho...

25 wssm

I'd go .257 Roberts AI.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
25 wssm

I'd go .257 Roberts AI.

i second the hand load vrs. factory load thing concerning the 257bob vrs. the 25-06 if don't load your own.
secondly, as much as i like the bob and ackleys, and the bob is one of the better cartridges to "improve", it still suffers a little pushing the heavy stuff. getting honest 25-06 performance out of a roberts case, even improved is pushing the case life advantage that the ackley is supposed to be about. if you are going to push 125's allot, the '06 case will do you better. it might be a bit more finicky than the roberts, as it is overbore for the caliber, but there's plenty of loading info and finding a good load and factory rounds with the heavier bullet will perform better than in the roberts, improved or not.

The 25-06 will be a tad flatter shooting than the Roberts. At unknown distances beyond 300 yards that can be important. With the 25-06 and 120 grain bullets you can top 3100 fps in a 24" barrel using RL-22. That is a very flat shooting, hard hitting load.

350 yards is a long freeking shot !
I am a quarter bore nut, I have 2 roberts 1 AI 40 and a .257 Weatherby.
Givin your choice I think I would go with the Roberts just cause I like the wood and blue rifle.
But for the ranges you speak of I think the 25,06 is a better cartridge.
But, if you hand load , the Roberts can also do the job prety well.
From a 22 inch tube, it is quite reasonable to expect speeds in the 3150 ball park with top end loads, shooting 100 grain bullets.
That is probably about 100 to 150 FPS less than you might expect from a 25,06.
Somthing about that mauser taper seems to make rifles shoot very acuratly in my experence.
...tj3006

Don't know the terrain where you hunt, but how often do you really need the small advantage of the bigger cases over the Bob? I'd bet it wouldn't be often.

I had problems with the cup and core bullets with the 25-06 that I never had with any .257 Roberts. Some times the deer are just too close and the bullet comes apart on the hide and ribs. Never suffered bullet failure with the Roberts. roger

Depending on the stock, you might be better suited going with the wood over the plastic.IMO

The gains you will get with the 06 over the Roberts will not be that much if the accuracy isn't there as well.

As for down range performance, either should suit you well out to 300yds. There are several bullets which would serve the 257 well even out to that range and not give up much. With the 25-06 things really start to shine at further ranges. The heavier bullets really drive home even out to 500yds.

If you run a side by side, with easily attainable velocities from each, using a 115gr bullet with say 3000fps for the 06 verses 2800 for the Roberts, you will see there isn't much difference. However 2800 is about it for the Roberts where as the 06 can usually easily hit 3100. Using the Partition this makes it very capable WAY out there if your on your game. But out to 300yds there is hardly enough difference to worry about if you hand load. If not most factory loads hardly reach 2800fps no matter what bullet weight with the 257 so you already start out handcuffed.

The main reason I mention the 115gr is that I have found it to be a great trade off for the heavier bullets with the extra velocity I gained from it in my 25-06 as compared to what an old neighbor was getting with his AI Roberts. With the 100rg loads he stayed on my heels but anything heavier he lost ground fast, and even being improved he could only reach mid 2900's with his.

The ultimate choice will be yours in the end. I love my 25-06's but I also roll my own so I get what I want from them. Even with that you can get factory loads which break 3100fps for the 25-06, but I saw nothing over 2800 for the 257.

Given the two rifles, I would go with the 25-06. Ruger still insists on putting Bob in a long action (I think the Hawkeye is the same). So if you got all that mag you might as well use it...

I prefer Bob in a SA - always had extremely good results...

Frankly I'd go with the 25-06.

But that being said unless I miss my guess Ruger chambers the Bob in a short 308lenght action, in which case I'd like to bend it over the head of whatever engineer at ruger decided to do something so monumentally STUPID.

AD

Well after much consideration, I have opted to to go with a 25-06, however not a Ruger like I had originally planned. I chose to be frugal with my $$ and go for a Stevens (I'm partial to Savage/Stevens) and then use Gun-kote and Aluma-hydeII to help give it some weather resistance.

The options to use heavier bullets brought me to this decisions. I love the 257 Roberts, but the locally limited options in ammo have also turned me to the 25-06.

Bartsche, I am interested in the cup and core problem out of the 25-06. I was thinking of buying one to shoot 100's at deer from 15-150 yards and coyotes when I see them. Last year I shot two deer with 130 grain Nosler flat base seconds running 2900 fps at no more than 30 yards, thru the lungs and two dead deer. I want a 24 inch barreled gun of the same make as my .270win (a 6 lug weatherby) (as savage guns are 22 inches or I would try one of their new accustocks) and had wanted to shoot 100 grain TSX or 100 grain accubombs. Your comment makes me think I would be limeted to monolithic bullets at 3200 fps on 15 yard deer. I have shot deer with 130 powerpoints at 3000 as well but again thru the lungs was not a problem. Was this an isolated incident or did you have multiple failures with the 25-06 on short range deer.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
Frankly I'd go with the 25-06.

But that being said unless I miss my guess Ruger chambers the Bob in a short 308lenght action, in which case I'd like to bend it over the head of whatever engineer at ruger decided to do something so monumentally STUPID.

AD

Allan,
You will be happy to know that Ruger makes the quarter bore Bob in a long action and as far as I know, always has. There is no problem loading the magazine with 30-06, 280 or 270 rounds. You can seat the bullet out as far as you think is appropriate.

quote:

Well after much consideration, I have opted to to go with a 25-06, however not a Ruger like I had originally planned. I chose to be frugal with my $$ and go for a Stevens (I'm partial to Savage/Stevens) and then use Gun-kote and Aluma-hydeII to help give it some weather resistance.

The options to use heavier bullets brought me to this decisions. I love the 257 Roberts, but the locally limited options in ammo have also turned me to the 25-06.


"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then is not an act, but a habit"--Aristotle (384BC-322BC)

I just bought a Sendero with the 26 inch stainless barrel just because Barnes released an 80 grain TTSX that ought to come out of that barrel on the high side of 3600 and qualify as a full fledged "Bambi surprise".

.257 Roy.

quote:

Originally posted by Mort Canard:

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
Frankly I'd go with the 25-06.

But that being said unless I miss my guess Ruger chambers the Bob in a short 308lenght action, in which case I'd like to bend it over the head of whatever engineer at ruger decided to do something so monumentally STUPID.

AD

Allan,
You will be happy to know that Ruger makes the quarter bore Bob in a long action and as far as I know, always has. There is no problem loading the magazine with 30-06, 280 or 270 rounds. You can seat the bullet out as far as you think is appropriate.

Not too long ago I handled a Ruger in 6mmRem which is essentially the same cartridge as the "Bob" but it was chambered in a short action

So I would've expected them to follow the same stupidity on the bob.

As for "cup and core" bullets being a "problem" in the 25-06 it's a non-issue, just don't buy cup and core bullets.

"False economy" is a pet peeve of mine.

as for heavy bullets in the 25-06? Why?

I've previously owned three 25-06 rifles
I didn't buy any of them to shoot 120's at speeds that I can achieve with my 30-06 with 165's.

You don't buy a Ferrari to tow a trailer either.


AD

You can get 3100+fps with 165's in an '06??

BTW, I've had lots of Bob's and prefer the short action. Seating the bullet out to 3" gives no practical advantage IME.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy P Coaltrain:
Bartsche, I am interested in the cup and core problem out of the 25-06. I was thinking of buying one to shoot 100's at deer from 15-150 yards and coyotes when I see them. Last year I shot two deer with 130 grain Nosler flat base seconds running 2900 fps at no more than 30 yards, thru the lungs and two dead deer. I want a 24 inch barreled gun of the same make as my .270win (a 6 lug weatherby) (as savage guns are 22 inches or I would try one of their new accustocks) and had wanted to shoot 100 grain TSX or 100 grain accubombs. Your comment makes me think I would be limeted to monolithic bullets at 3200 fps on 15 yard deer. I have shot deer with 130 powerpoints at 3000 as well but again thru the lungs was not a problem. Was this an isolated incident or did you have multiple failures with the 25-06 on short range deer.

I think the 110 grain accubonds will do all you are asking out of the 25-06.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

You don't buy a Ferrari to tow a trailer either.


AD

Maybe you don't buy one for that specific reason, but sometimes living a real life forces other needs on you.

When I graduated from university, I won a big bunch of lucrative graduate fellowships, scholarships, etc. The one I chose to accept had a caveat....I had to be physically there, over 2,000 miles away by road, on Saturday or it would be given to someone else. It was about noon Wednesday when I received the offer by telegram.

As I had nowhere to leave my guns, academic research data, meagre furniture, loading equipment, etc., I had to take them all along or throw them all away. So, I went to the industrial part of town, found a welding shop, and had a trailer hitch (and lights socket) installed on the back of my brand new Mk.I E-type Jaguar (bought new for $6,050 cash!!). Then I went over to U-Haul and rented a 14-foot "van-type" trailer, towed it back to my apartment, collected guns, furniture, other belongings, and new wife, and got on the road. We traded off driving and except for a 3-hour rest in Boise, Idaho drove essentially 24 hours a day. We made it with enough time to spare to get some sleep in a motel early Saturday morning.

Truckers, incidentally, seemed to love us, especially at night. I found out why a bit later....from behind, the Jaguar was completely invisible. The trailer blocked all view of it. At a truck stop getting petrol, we found they had all commented over their radios on the young couple who at first glance seemed to be piloting a self-powered U-haul trailer across America at 75 miles per hour (in the days before interstate freeways were completed)!

So I suspect that with rifles, as with other things, there are times you want them to be capable of doing things you didn't actually buy them for. Hence heavy bullets in .25-06s.

I know this isn't a direct answer to the question. But, I have four rifles chambered in 257 Roberts. That chambering to my way of thinking is about as good as it gets for the quarter bore.
However, I just bought a Weatherby Vanguard in 25-06, (one with a Walnut stock...Grins) to reach out and touch something past the 257's capability of hitting. It's the second 25-06 I've owned. The first I bought in 1957, and it went the way of many rifles I've had and am now sorry I don't have today.
Haven't shot the Vanguard yet as the snow is DEEP, and our rifle range isn't accessable now. I have lots of loads worked up, using the new RL-17 for some of the loads, and will hit the range as soon as the snow goes away.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
You can get 3100+fps with 165's in an '06??

BTW, I've had lots of Bob's and prefer the short action. Seating the bullet out to 3" gives no practical advantage IME.

MY issue with ?x57 cartridges in 308 length actions was with a 6mmRem in a Remington Varminter with Nosler Solid bases.
seated to Kiss the rifling (happy spot for accuracy) they wouldn't fit in the magazine
box.

Not with each of my 30-06's and not with all the barrels I've had on them

But with care and a willingness to let RL22
"be all it can be" while using neck sized fireformed winchester brass... Yes, you can
get 3100fps with 165's out of the 30-06.

the "Velocity is a pressure sign" crowd can't but with the same lot of primers & powder I've been grinding my way through for a decade....

When you are loading one brand of brass for one specific rifle loaded with the same lot of powder and same lot of primers there are a whole host of variables you need not concern yourself with.



AD

quote:

Yes, you can
get 3100fps with 165's out of the 30-06.

If you ever see me at the range and you are going to shoot that load, please warn me first so I can vacate...

you can only make the load "work" (get ALL the propellant in the case) with certain lots of fireformed winchester brass,

You simply cannot get too much RL22 into a 30-06, not possible, no way no how.

It's a volume limitation, not a pressure limitation

Oh, and BTW, I've never broken 3050 without
a Fed215M to light it all up.

And it takes a max dimension chamber to fireform that brass into before neck sizing.

I suppose it'd be a bunch easier with an AI or "gibbs" chamber, and I'm still baffled that Nosler didn't play around with RL22 and 165's in the 30-06AI

BTW, Do you actually work at being snide and obnoxious
or is it a natural part of your character?

AD

I have used the 257 Bob and 25-06 for deer hunting. The 257 will get the job done but give yourself a little extra range. Get the 25-06.

.25-06 is the way to go.

"BTW, Do you actually work at being snide and obnoxious
or is it a natural part of your character?"

can't help it, I have a soccer ball IQ.