Couple of months ago I bought a SS lefty bolt action Savage .223 with the cheap ass black tupperware stock and fairly light barrel. First trip to the range revealed it wouldnt feed or shoot the FMJ factory ammo I had on hand. Since the rifle was new I didnt want to piss with it so I sent it back to Savage to have the feeding issues corrected. In about a month the rifle was returned to me and now it feeds very nice. Mounted a Pentax 4x14 scope on it that I picked up new for a song.
Loaded up 25 grains of Varget behind some 52 grain Berger bullets and hit the range. Four three shot groups averaged about 1 inch. Not as good as I like but I do not consider myself a very good bench rest shooter either. This morning I decided to up the charge to 26 grains and hit the range again. It was slightly windy with gusts to 15 mph on occassion. I planted the rifle on the rest and shot four different three shot groups never taking the wind into consideration. The smallest group was a fricking 1/4 of an inch! The largest was .60.
These rifles are ugly, the stocks are ugly, but they are cheap and man oh man do they ever shoot!

Because they're cheap; they definitely don't buy them for their aesthetics.

Well I don't have that much negativity to say about them...

I have a couple and I like them.. both are the 116 Stainless also, and a 12 BVSs...

they are great shooters..there is a lot of beauty in that alone..

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they are great shooters..there is a lot of beauty in that alone..

I like the way you put that! I have a rifle that is just plum ugly, but .... ! My interest in the Savage is along the lines of cheap but shoot well, so your comment about them shooting well caught my attention! (It's my work mate - he is in the market for a rifle. Now I know I can support his interest in them).

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Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
Because they're cheap; they definitely don't buy them for their aesthetics.

Back when the Savage stocks were various Hardwoods(Beech or Birch), finished with stuff that resembled dried chocolate milk, and the pistol grip was sized to fit King Kong, they were accurate, rugged, typically held zero and could normally be counted on to function. It was not a big deal for the average home Gun Smith to remove the chocolate milk finish, rasp a good portion off the grip and refinish the Termite Food which made it much more attractive and user friendly when holding. The easy Bolt Disassembly is a serious plus in a sand blown environment where the rifle is used every day. Only real problem back then(pre-synthetic) was the same as it is today - Termite Food can and does warp.

Todays Savages are better than ever, even with the "flexable" synthetic stocks. I'll always prefer the Savage's excellent accuracy, good looks and low cost over an exploding sako-scrap. The Snobs of the world are sure missing out on some fine inexpensive shooters.

Don't know if Brie, Fish Eggs and imported Grape Juice hurts a Savage or not.

Form follows function!
Peter.

quote:

they are great shooters..there is a lot of beauty in that alone..

+2!



I noticed thee word "cheap" used several times and I don't consider that the correct definition, perhap we could agree on "inexpensive"? Personally, "cheap" is something of inferior quality with a low price; "inexpensive" is good value for money but not poor quality. If there is a "cheap" part of their rifles that have missed my scrutiny - please advise?

For years they've been one of the only manufacturers who have remained loyal to us Lefties; obviously a big plus for alot of Southpaws.

I've owned three; still have two (heavy barrel models) and all three are absolute tack drivers. The only reason the third one went was because it was so accurate that every Leftie who ever saw it shoot wanted to buy it.....I finally sold it before Christmas after owning it for 30 years.

In years that many Arms Manufacturers were having great difficulty and disappearing I woulda though that perhpas Savage would have been in a position to succumb. Instead they gave the shooting public great inovation & accurate rifles at a reasonable price.

The marketplace decided....like it always does.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
The Snobs of the world are sure missing out on some fine inexpensive shooters.

Don't know if Brie, Fish Eggs and imported Grape Juice hurts a Savage or not.

From the snob in Nebraska where no Savages reside (nor will they) because I can buy an equally good shooting Remington and not have to send it back to have the feeding fixed!

You can spill anything on a Savage and not hurt it.....you can paint it camo and not hurt it.....you can leave it out in the snow, sleet, and rain all winter and not hurt it!

It can fall out of your horse's scabbard and it not be hurt.....your dog can piss on it and it not be hurt.....hell, your exwife can demand it in the divorce and you're better off.....

The greatest thing about a Savage is burglars can break in and steal it and you're actually better off!...there's more to life than accuracy!

Vapodog, you funny!
Are you saying that it is more important for a rifle to look good than shoot well??
And no, on average your remmy will NOT shoot with a savage, PERIOD!

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Are you saying that it is more important for a rifle to look good than shoot well??

I am saying that a rifle must not look like something you really want to hide.....that it must feed and extract and eject....that when one squeeses the trigger it eventually goes bang.....that the safety work.....that the sights don't fall off.....and while my personal experience with Savage is a long time ago....it's still the case that I read posts saying what I said a very long time ago....they have serious flaws that need attention.....

Accuracy is only one feature of a rifle and I can attest that if I was building a "hilltop to hilltop" varmint rifle it'd be on a Savage RH and LH port action! However if I have to carry it around actually hunting then it's marked "Mauser" or "Remington" or "Winchester" or "Sako" or etc etc.......at least if I need to fix one of these rifles (which is very rare) I have something when it's done.....when you fix a Savage you still have a Savage.....let the exwife have it in the decree.....you're better off!

(and yes.....the accutrigger is a great advancement)

An old man once told me that "pretty don't make the pot boil". IMHO no one can argue that Savage builds one of the top two or three best shooting rifles on the market today. For me personally they are the "BEST". The only non-Savage rifle I own that will approach Savage accuracy is a custom Ruger #3.
Rifles are like women. Each has her own personality. The majority of guys want to chase the PRETTY one. Give me the one that will "git er done"
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

I agree with some of you about a rifle must look good. God knows I sneak enough into the house telling my wife, "Oh, that didnt cost much" or "You remember, I bought that like 10 years ago". Of course she sees through all of that and humors me. We have a standing deal. She doesnt complain about the gun safe and I don't peak into her jewerly box.
I have a couple of really sweet rifles in my collection and that includes some rebarreled bolt actions that carry Lilja barrels on trued actions. But in all my life every Savage I owned was more accurate. They have there place in my heart and that is they are a functional, extremely accurate piece of inexpensive equipment. Heck, I am not a fan of push feeds at all but there is a time and place for a Savage

I have a M10flp that shoots under an inch with Yugo mil-surp ball. Who cares if its ugly?

VD ! Tell it the way you see it. Stop holding back.

Of the 9 Savages and Stevens only two never gave me feeding problems; the 12bvSS-Single shot and the Mod 340 in 30-30. The rest had to be worked on. Barrel swapping was my impetus. For building and testing wildcats they are just great.

The worst quality problem was with the 12bv-ss-s in .223. It was an early accutrigger and went really bad in less than 1000 rounds. The ejectors are not very forgiving with higher pressure. They tend to jam into the bolt face

A number of the Stevens take a lot of work to remove copper and crud; twice the effort as some of my Rugers. would I buy another? Just might do that. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
VD ! Tell it the way you see it. Stop holding back.

Wall, galllllllyeee Roger.....I thought I explained my self quite eloquently

Just wait until someone starts a thread on Weatherby or Ruger.....that's when

for Hot Core.....that's shit hitting the fan.....

I built my first rifle in 1952 on a 98 Mauser action and have had several custom target rifles built on Mod. 70 actions. Have owned only one Remington, a 40XC target rifle built on the 700 action in their custom shop. All of the above rifles are/were capable of sub moa accuracy. If it won't hold moa, I'm not interested.

The last three rifles I have purchased have been Savages. The first, a pre-accutrigger rifle in .338 WM is my favorite deer/nilgai rifle and shoots 5/8" five shot groups on a regular basis. I was so impressed with that rifle, I picked up an FP10 in .223; what a rifle! Shoots one hole groups and the accutrigger is something else! Yep, both of these rifles wear that (funcionally) beautiful tupperware stock . The last one is a 375 h&h Safari Express (pre-accutrigger) in a nice looking wooden stock which just barely slips in under the cutoff of shooting 1 moa.

As for dependability, none of the Savage rifles have had any feed problems, or fired on release of safety, which is more than I can say about one of the non-Savage rifles mentioned above .

Regards,
hm

OK...here's the story.....

Years ago I bought a brand spanking new Savage/fox side by side.....single selective trigger.....ejectors, vert rib.....a beauty of a shotgun.....I was maybe 20 at the time and shelled out dearly for that shotgun.....

The first day out the gun wouldn't eject the shell on the right side.

I poked it out with a wood dowel and upin inspection found a very heavy burr in the rim recess that was binding the ejector! I couldn't remove it so sent it back to savage.

six weeks elapse
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the gun is returned and I'm delighted to see it fixed and out to the range again to discover that now the left barrel won't fire.....a halfclick thing..... Back to savage!

six weeks later
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the gun is returned again and now I'm ready for the range only to discover that the gun actually fires on the safe position....(I'm not shitting you)...back to Savage again
weeks later it is returned
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once again with considerably diminished enthusiasm I head to the range and low and behold the vent rib comes loose and springs up from the receiver and three posts ahead of there.....now I'm pissed!!!!!

I return the gun with a semi polite letter to Savage asking them to send me a M-99 lever in .308 instead
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weeks later they did that.....here was my new Savage 99 in .308.....and I was delighted..... I bought some 150 grain bullets and headed to the range.....after my third shot the gun locked up on me tighter than a bulls ass in fly time!!!! I couldn't open the action at all and there was ammo still in the magazine.....so I put it back in the box and returned it to savage
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sure enough they finally returned it and I immediately tested the trigger with the safety on (see...I'm learning) and the son of a bitch fires.....again it goes back to Savage.....
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and weeks later it is again returned and I traded it immediately for a Winchester....

I swear this is a true story!

Pretty is as pretty does, Forrest. ALL mine have or do shoot knots. Only the CZ's can keep up accuracy-wise but they're both elegant and more expensive. 'Tween the two, I need little else.

Function over form, for me. If you've ever seen me at closing time, you'd understand!

Mark

Vapodog
I have a very similar tale of woe with a Fox b and M110. Soured me on Savages. I recently relented and picked up a cheapy Stevens in 223. It feels ok and shoots great.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
OK...here's the story.....

Years ago I bought a brand spanking new Savage/fox side by side.....single selective trigger.....ejectors, vert rib.....a beauty of a shotgun.....I was maybe 20 at the time and shelled out dearly for that shotgun.....

Growing up I was a 16gauge Savage side by side guy; not the fox. My buddy was a little more affluent than I and had one which he let me use on occasion. To me it was like hunting with a magic wand. roger

I don't think Savage then compares to Savage now.

This is why you see so many Remington 700 rifle barrels sell so cheap. youtube.com/watch?hf9zZqn00CA It seems the Savages bring a little more?

My son bought a used Savage model 12 in 22/250 with the tupperware stock and stainless fluted barrel and brought it back home for me to play with for a short while and I developed a hand load for it that shot very good. I told him my load was accurate but he acted like my loads were just elcheapo ammo. I sent him home with a lot of handloads when he picked up the rifle. He went to the range and shot some a couple weeks ago and called me right away bragging that his Savage shot .5" groups at 200 yds. He has wanted to swap rifles with me on occasion but I don't think I will get it away from him now.

Getting those kinds of groups shooting well-made handloads out of any major factory rifle is very possible when shooting in the 22 caliber centerfires, whether Rem, Savage, Sako, Ruger (?), Winchester and what have you.

No one in their right mind wants to bed an ugly woman if they can have one who's a pleasure to look at. Maybe the ugly one can do a few more things in bed for you than a good-looking woman, but you can always teach a good looking woman what you want. In the end, no matter what you do, if you've got an ugly woman, you're stuck. She's not going to get better looking.

Same thing with a rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
OK...here's the story.....Years ago I bought a brand spanking new Savage/fox side by side.

I got a barely used Savage/Fox Model B(?) outside the Main Gate of Cherry Point in a Pawn Shop. Traded a hump-back Remingto Auto Loader(totally worn out) and a Savage 22LR Pump(also totally worn out) - even for it. Mine had double triggers, the raised rib, F&M 26" barrels and shot fairly well. Never had a problem with it. Sold it to a close friend who abused it for a year and he sold it back to me. I can't remember what he had broken on it, maybe part of the Extractor mechanism, and maybe the Phenolic Butt Plate had a chip in it, but back then Gun Companies trusted folks enough to sell them parts. Wasn't much, maybe $6 total and it was back up and running fine. Can't even remember what I eventually Swapped it in on or if I sold it.

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xxx...so sent it back to Savage.

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six weeks elapse xxx...back to Savage.

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six weeks later the gun is returned xxx...back to Savage again.

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the vent rib comes loose ...return the gun with a semi polite letter to Savage asking them to send me a M-99 lever in .308 instead.

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tested the trigger with the safety on xxx... back to Savage.

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it is again returned and I traded it....

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I swear this is a true story!

I know only "one other" guy who can tear up an anvil with a rubber hammer!
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Glad to hear the Savages are able to survive that list of stuff you mentioned. I've not tried a lot of that stuff, but it is good to know they will still function after such treatment.
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Also appreciate you explaining the Fan. I thought it was the Symbol for the Wealth Redistribution "Change" being carried out World Wide in the "New World Order".

quote:

Originally posted by R. Walter:
Getting those kinds of groups shooting well-made handloads out of any major factory rifle is very possible when shooting in the 22 caliber centerfires, whether Rem, Savage, Sako, Ruger (?), Winchester and what have you.

No one in their right mind wants to bed an ugly woman if they can have one who's a pleasure to look at. Maybe the ugly one can do a few more things in bed for you than a good-looking woman, but you can always teach a good looking woman what you want. In the end, no matter what you do, if you've got an ugly woman, you're stuck. She's not going to get better looking.

Same thing with a rifle.

It might be possible but I been reloading since I was 12 and am now 55. Owned my share of Varmit rifles in .22 caliber with most of them being Remingtons. Never once owned either a untuned or tuned rifle that could shoot under .5 moa consistently. Knock em all you want but a Savage will shoot!

MOOREEE, Button rifled vs hammer forged, tuff to figger.

I like the appearance of my wood stock Savage Classic just fine. Why anybody wanting a jewel would by a plastic stock and expect good looks escapes me. I've seen one or two that look OK, but not at twice the price of a better out of the box Savage.

I don't think I could call the Savage rifle for sale here ugly, by any stretch..
I'd call it VERY good looking.


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...2/page/3#Post2924732

Don

This was about 40 years ago. I had a Savage 110 and I wrote a letter to Savage asking them what it would cost to have it rebarreled. They sent a letter back saying they could not do the work because the employees were out on strike.
I sold the rifle and never bought another Savage product.

Thats a good reason,lol.
Livin' in the past are we?

quote:

I don't think I could call the Savage rifle for sale here ugly, by any stretch..
I'd call it VERY good looking.


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...2/page/3#Post2924732

Same as mine, except mine is in .243 and has a detachable box magazine.

DMB, that is one purdy rifle! I wish I had some money to buy one in 270Winny.

Here is why I love mine, all three of them.

When it came time to by my first "real" bolt action, I went to my hometown sporting goods store and asked to see an nice Remmington 700.

The old guy behind the counter, who knew my father fairly well, handed me a nice one, but kept saying "You won't like it". That annoyed me (remember this clerk was a family friend), so I asked him what I should buy. He pulled out a Savage 110. His reason was that the 110 would shoot better out of the box, was cheap, and ugly enough not to be messed up crawling through the mess were I was going to go hunting.

That .308 has been shooting under an inch at 100 yards for years now. It is ugly, and not as pleasing to the eye as a Model 70, but it works. A friend bought a nice Remmington about the same time, with a pretty laminate stock, and then spent $400 getting it to shoot like my cheap Savage did for the same price.

Savage rifles are excellent tools. They are not presentation or collection grade guns, but guns that will do the job and do it well.

The Remington guys always claim their 700's shoot just as good. Oddly enough they never participate in postal matches. I'll stick my $1000 worth of Savage against $1000 worth of Remington anytime.

I have only 1 Savage in .243, I inherited it from a family freind. It's a model 99 lever action that's at least 50 years old and it will shoot .5 groups all day long. What a rifle, I think I'm going to get a 22-250 in that cheapo stevens and see how she shoots. Who cares what it looks like as long as it performs afield. Most of the time no one sees it, it's in the safe. Functionality and accurate is what I'm after and if Savage delivers inexpensively, WHO CARES WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. This isn't a beauty pagent. If you want your firearm to look pretty, sit home in front of the fire and look at it, don't take it into the elements or the field you might ruin her!!!

"Rifles are like women. Each has her own personality. The majority of guys want to chase the PRETTY one. Give me the one that will "git er done""

Well said, the jigger --

However, I must admit that I have a respect and appreciation for both the Pretty-- and Git er Done models.

I don't have the expertise that many of our contributors have... but I can give a testimonial:

-Got my first Whitetail with a bow, then seeking to top off the freezer, I coughed up $48 for a 8mm Turkish Mauser with the original 1945 iron sights.

Whenever I had a hankering for a "reach out and touch 'em" deer gun, mstarling was kind enough to offer to loan an extra rifle. My favorite borrowed beauty was the M1 Garand that made it out of Mike's safe to bag the Black Bear.

Knowing I was in the market for a tack-driver albeit while on a tight budget, Dr. Mike gave me a "heads-up" when Bobby Tomek put Savage 110 .30-06 on the AR Classifieds. As I recall, Bobby had procured the piece to use for parts or put a different barrel on her-- but when she performed so perfectly at the range, he had a change of heart.

I'm grateful to both mstarling and Bobby Tomek as this Git er Done gal has tagged my two biggest bucks with reliability and accuracy way beyond her humble financial demands.

Sure, there are prettier pieces to be put in the safe, but I've no complaints with the function of Savage Sally.

I can't afford beautiful custom rifles chambered for classic cartridges, but Savage rifles have afforded me opportunities to at least hunt with some of those cartridges without a second mortgage. I've had 2 110s, a 116, and a 99 chambered for classic cartridges like the 300 Savage, 220 Swift as well as wildcats like the 416 Taylor and 280AI. I feel like the Savage platforms usually gives me good performance from the cartridges I've tried and hunting with them has been a joy and sometimes an eye opener.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:

quote:

Originally posted by R. Walter:
Getting those kinds of groups shooting well-made handloads out of any major factory rifle is very possible when shooting in the 22 caliber centerfires, whether Rem, Savage, Sako, Ruger (?), Winchester and what have you.

No one in their right mind wants to bed an ugly woman if they can have one who's a pleasure to look at. Maybe the ugly one can do a few more things in bed for you than a good-looking woman, but you can always teach a good looking woman what you want. In the end, no matter what you do, if you've got an ugly woman, you're stuck. She's not going to get better looking.

Same thing with a rifle.

It might be possible but I been reloading since I was 12 and am now 55. Owned my share of Varmit rifles in .22 caliber with most of them being Remingtons. Never once owned either a untuned or tuned rifle that could shoot under .5 moa consistently. Knock em all you want but a Savage will shoot!

You and I have been handloading just about the same... 45 years for me. And my experience is just the opposite of yours.

My Rems all shoot 0.5 MOA or better (in 22 and under calibers) with a little lightening on the trigger and the right handload worked up. I've got Remingtons, Winchesters or Rugers in 17 Rem Fireball, 17 Remington, 221 Fireball, Hornet, 219Zipper, 222, 223, 22-250, 225 Win, Swift, 22-250AI, 223AI and 204Ruger.

Of those the only ones that don't shoot .5MOA or better are the Hornet and the 225Win.