I would say that the 22-250 is really a good choice, but I have been told it can be hard on a barrel too--I'm not experienced enough with it to draw my own conclusions, but someone here can probably provide some empirical data as to whether that is true or not.

I know a lot of folks have taken Antelope quite effectively with them, and they are great on prarie dogs. I used the 70 gr. XXX and it is awesome on the speed goats.I tend to go with more standard stuff caliber wise so far, but some of those wildcats guys mentioned sound pretty cool.

The Sauer Varmint 22-250 I've got is way accurate, and I've got a Sako Grey Wolf on the way for when that barrel tanks......

Good Shooting--Don

One problem is that as you go toward higher and higher velocity, and better wind reiistance, you get less and less barrel life. A 6.5 X 284 barrel lasts about 1200 rounds, according to most who use it. A .257 Weatherby probably a lot less, maybe less than 500.

A cartridge made to solve this is the .243 CM. It is a sort of .243 Ackley Improved with a long enough neck so the bullet always seats in front of the "doughnut" which is formed by case sizing. The theory is to load this case a little "light" with very slow burning powder, usually H1000, and very good long-range bullets, such as the 115 grain DTAC. Users claim 3000 rounds of barrel life and accuracy/wind good wnough for national competition at 1000 yards.

For a better discussion, go to www.nationalmatch.us and search on it.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
Keep in mind that with modern laser rangefinders trajectory is not the problem it once was. Its still quite difficult to figure wind drift when it's blowing.

If you have any rifle for big game such as a 30-06, 308 or 270 and a varmint rifle then your next purchase should be a laser. Download some free ballistics program and carry the copy with you when you practice at long range and of course for hunting.

As to the shooting products I have no use for anything that Weatherby has designed. So I would use a 243 for varmints and one of my bigger bores for game. If the range was long I would use a magnum.

My unsolicitated opinion is that Savage99 gives the best advice here, which is essentially to practice in the wind. A .300 RUM drifts as much at 700 yards as a pokey .308 Win does at 615 (same bullet, just 700 fps or so less velocity), so velocity isn't going to make anything shoot twice as long as another round. High BC helps, as Indy points out, but there is no substitute for practice, like once a week.

A mere 2 mph wind blows my RUM bullets 7 inches at 750 yards. At ranges over 500 yards, you have to dial in any little puff or you risk missing.

I hope you guys feel bad! (Another AZ, Sav99)

This guy quite clearly WANTS an new gun and you guy's are recommending practice! Don't you realize you need to be supportive of his endevour? The least you could be understanding of his sickness!!! Nate

My vote would go for the 25-06 hands down.

Throw in another vote for a hot 25, either 25-06, 25-284 or 257 Wetherby. I can't see taking the increased recoil of the bigger bores for volume varmint shooting, and I can't see goinng to a smaller bore for big game shooting.

But the real issue is, can you build the gun the same way for varmints as big game? I'd want a heavy long barreled gun for varmints, and would opt for something lighter for big game.

I have to say 25-06, but then I'm prejudiced since I've been shooting one since 1969.. that's the last century for those of you from Rio Linda! lol

I am surprised no one has suggested either 257 Roberts or the 257 Roberts Improved. 6mm Remington will reach out and touch those speed goats AND prairie dogs also.

JMHO

John

I love my Roberts but the man said "Thee Flattest Shooting" so it didn't make the cut.

When I run out of 115gr XLC's for my .25-06 I'm going to try some Berger VLD 120's and 125gr Wildcat's for the longer distances. My Roberts has folded deer up with 100gr Nosler BT's but not at amazing distances. Nate

How about running 120gr XLC's out of a 6.5X68?

How much more flat shooting do you want?

James

The .257 Bob is no slouch with 75 grain v-maxes at 3500 for flat shooting or a 3160+ fps 100 TSX both realized in my 22" M77Mk2, still the .25-06 is even faster and flatter and more available at the factory level, though the Nosler custom .257 stuff looks good.

Allen Magnums are as flat as you're going to get. Go to longrangehunting.com for more info. His magnums push the limits and use heavy bullets going really fast.

quote:

What is the flattes shooting rifle for long range shots. The animals it would be shooting range from prarie dogs to antelope to springbuck

I like flat shooting rifles also and I own three of the the flattest shoot rifles made two are factory loaded and one is a wildcat they would all work for your purpose/

1. .223 WSSM pushes a 40gr nosler BT at 4400 fps, and shoots .3 MOA. Loaded with a 53gr TSX it will smooke any deer or antelope.

Pics of rifle and Group

2. .257 STW pushes 100gr TSX at 4000 fps and shoots under .5 MOA. Great for anythng up to Bison and Elk.

3. 7mm RUM The flatest shooting factory round loaded today 120gr TSX anything you want. I'm considering loading the 175 gr TSx for Brown Bear will let you know how it works.

Buy one of each no one should have only one flatt shooting rifle.

Dr B

Rodents arn't worth a bullet.
.300 Pegasus.

When I really want to reach out and do something in I reach for my Sendero in 7mm Ultra Mag. It has worked on everything I have ponted it at and recoil is very reasonable. I usually use a 160 Accubond.

If you can put up with a left hand rifle, like I did, I have a Weatherby, 240 Wby mag that would fit your needs. I always figure I would only need one shot with a great rifle. If you want right handed, my Sako Forester in 243 is also available. Both, FLAT shooters.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the .264 Winchester Magnum.

Maybe it's now obsolete and no rifles are made for it anymore?

range is the key here, in my opinion.. next, how much are you going to shoot next, then of course budget...

sub 300 yards, I like the 257 wby, haven't shot a 25wsm but should be close, ammo is easy to find and relatively cheap... 240 wby is also a good choice, but ammo is not so easy to get.. 223 is very good to 300, ammo easy and cheap..

300-500 yds, you need energy to take something even the size of an antelope or springbuck, I shoot a 300RUM also, and with a 150gr bullet, it's flat fast, ammo is not super easy to find, but it's not expensive for the most part... 300 WSM in good next choice, but I might limit it to the 400yd range...

Money and flllattttttt shooting not a problem... 300 Pegasus... this is the 180gr pounder, ammo is not cheap, and you better stock up when you can...

Ok, some of these may not be perfect for this forum, but for flat shooting, downrange energy, and less wind drift... you have to have trade offs somewhere...

even the 7mm RUM and 7mm SAUM are good intermediate rounds...

Hill country rifles in TX, and McWhorter's in GA are good choices for reasonably priced custom guns, and they make full blown customs also... my Hill country 300RUM shoots legitimate .300 3 shot 100 yd groups with Remington factory 150 grainers.

You want the flatest shooting cartridge out there? Then the .17 Rem. I have one of the origionals of the 700 BDLs in this caliber. Stainless barrel, case hardened reciever, nice gun. It's shot caribou, seals, large birds, the works. Shoot's flat out to 200 yards I hear. Don't have a scope so I've never shot with it beyond say 4 to 4 and a half hundred yards. Very accurate too. Good gun.

Two large "If's" follow:

1. IF you are okay with the Savage it makes your decision simple and cost effective.
Switch barrel rifle on the long 112 action, repeater of course. 256 Newton, aka 6.5-06 Improved, or the 6.5-284. Second barrel 22-250 or 22-284. Takes five minutes to change barrels. If yo go with a 6-284 instead of the 22 it makes into a short action repeater with two scope, a 3-9X and an 8-32X pair of Bausch and Lomb scope in QD rings.

Rich

243WSSM

The 140gr .264 dia polymer tipped bullets are the way to go if you want performance at long range, they have a much higher B.C. than any of the .25 cal bullets,without going to exotics or extreme twist rates.They'll also do much better in the wind.
The 6.5X55 Ackley improved would be a good round.
Or the 6.5 remington Mag.

i would go with the .260 rem.

Hi Uplandhunter, I too was on this quest. I finally settled for a custom in 6MM rem AI.It will have a 28in KRIEGER semi heavy on a Sako long action. If we've worked out the exterior ballistics right, it should, hands down beat out the 240 weatherby mag. Anything from 87 v max to 107 smks in an 8 twist. Will be used for anything from deer to varmints (inc birds). Should have the trajectory of a laser with the lighter bullets and with the heavier ones be good to 1k. This will be FLAT and would suit your purpose admirably.

ATB

Z

Zaitsev: I beg to differ with you regarding the 6mm Remington Ackley Improved vs. the 240 Weatherby Magnum!
You see I own similar Rifles in BOTH calibers AND, I own an Oehler Chronograph!
AND, I own a new Sierra Loading Manual Volume Number "V" (5!)!
For instance the Sierra folks show the 6mm Remington Ackley Improved shooting (SAFELY!) their 70 grain bullets at 3,600 F.P.S. and the 240 Weatherby Magnum shooting the same bullets at 3,700 F.P.S.!!!
Thats 100 F.P.S. faster for the 240 Weatherby Magnum than the 6mm Remington Ackley Improved! So your statement that the 6mm Remington Ackley Improved "beats the 240 Weatherby Magnum hands down" is simply - NOT CORRECT!
Dittoes, by the way, on the superiority of the 240 Weatherby Magnum over the 6mm Remington Ackley Improved with 80 grain bullets AND with 100 grain bullets!
The Sierra folks DID NOT test or recommend safe loads for the 6mm Remington Ackley Improved in bullet weights above 100 grains! They did show and recommend loads for the 240 Weatherby Magnum in one heavier weight than 100 grains - but alas no comparison is available there in print!
I will keep my "safe" loads in the heavier bullets to myself (the specific charge weights and powders) as these "high intensity" cartridges are just that - highly intense!
Suffice it to say that the 240 Weatherby again prevails over the 6mm Ackley Improved in these cases as well!
Indeed 100 F.P.S. when you are up around 3,700 F.P.S. is not a large "percentage" of superior speed for the 240 Weatherby magnum OVER the 6mm Remington Ackley Improved, but it is still SUPERIOR and in NO WAY indicates the 6mm Remington Ackley Improved "BEATS" the 240 Weatherby "hands down"!
The contrary is true in my experience and with this solid source (Sierra Bullets LLC) for back up!
Same bullet at a faster speed yields a flatter shooting "Rifle" than with the slower bullet from another Rifle!
The 240 Weatherby Magnum wins this one and better satisfies the original posters inquiry.
Case settled!
Both the 6mm Remington Ackley Improved and the 240 Weatherby Magnum are fine cartridges and I have been VERY happy with them for some time now - both at the range in in the field on Varmints and medium sized Big Game!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Savage99: I feel I have to inquire as to just why you are besmirching the fine line of Weatherby cartridges and "products"!
I have owned Weatherby Rifles and scopes in the past and got VERY good service from them!
I still own one Weatherby (Made In Germany) Rifle and have one other custom Rifle in a Weatherby caliber!
I get SPLENDID service from both!
You are going to have to "burp up" some pretty strong evidence to back up your "vague" attempt at besmirchment of the fine "Weatherby line" of products if you wish to influence me (or anyone else!)!
The Weatherby line of "products" has proven itself over the past 5 or 6 DECADES and has MANY followers and admirers!
Indeed Weatherby Rifles are STRONG sellers at Gunshops and Gunshows every where I travel. I am going to be sharing a Hunting camp here shortly with a Hunter who uses one of Weatherby's newest cartridges (338/378 Weatherby Magnum) and I KNOW FOR A FACT he is one of the most successful Elk Hunters around today! I was spotting over his shoulder a couple years ago when he brought to bag (with one shot!) an excellent 7x7 Bull Elk here in the high plains of the Rocky Mountains!
I have also seen him harvest other heads of Game with this Rifle including Deer and Antelope!
He LOVES this caliber/Rifle.
The 300 Weatherby cartrdige and Rifles chambered for it are VERY popular and VERY efficient afield! To say the LEAST!
I have shot the 460 Weatherby and for me I have no use for it - as I probably never will Hunt African Dangerous Game, but the rest of Weatherby's line I am sure I could find a use for and be happy with!
It seems most all "Weatherby type" Hunters I come across in the Varmint and Big Game fields really ENJOY and are happy with their Weatherby products!
Indeed one of my Taxidermists uses his 30/378 Weatherby Magnum for Coyote Hunting as well as Big Game!
I forget the EXACT yardgae but my friend "holds on hair" with this caliber out to 350 or 400 yards when shooting Coyotes!
He handloads it for Coyotes with a Molied VLD bullet of 150 grains. He recently killed 92 Coyotes in one month with this Rifle/cartridge (he came in second place in this eastern Montana Coyote contest with that performance by the way)!
Yeah HE's happy with his Weatherby "products" and has used them for quite some time now with no apparent loss of accuracy in his Rifle! Just amazing field performance.
He has used this Rifle as well for long range Antelope and Mule Deer Hunting. I am sure (but do not know for a fact) that he has used it for Elk Hunting as well!
It would be interesting to know what you base your derision of the fine and long lived and popular Weatherby line of "products" on?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

I was spotting over his shoulder a couple years ago when he brought to bag (with one shot!) an excellent 7x7 Bull Elk here in the high plains of the Rocky Mountains!

Big deal... I did exactly the same thing with my lowly .270 Winchester. (Okay, mine was just a 5X5. I guess the bigger antlers make them harder to kill...)

Anyone who wants to gain a couple hundred more fps than a "standard" cartridge in the same caliber (burning an extra 20% powder in the process!), go ahead and buy a Weatherby... To me, they are overpriced, ugly-actioned firearms offer no significant benefit above standard chamberings. Additionally, brass is extremely expensive, and factory ammunition is ridiculously priced!

The flatest shooting rifle I own is my 257 WBY mag. It shoots the 87 gr bullet at 3779 FPS and for deer it shoots the 100 gr bullet at 3530 FPS
and the 117 gr bullet at 3323 FPS. Thats all I need.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:

Anyone who wants to gain a couple hundred more fps than a "standard" cartridge in the same caliber (burning an extra 20% powder in the process!), go ahead and buy a Weatherby... To me, they are overpriced, ugly-actioned firearms offer no significant benefit above standard chamberings. Additionally, brass is extremely expensive, and factory ammunition is ridiculously priced!

You can get bulk Remington brass for the .300 Weatherby at about the same price as what you'd pay for .300 Winchester Mag. brass.

I agree that factory ammo in Weatherby Mag. calibers is very expensive.