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.224 deer bullets/just the facts-PLEASE!
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Okay, I'm gonna try this. I am hoping we can do this without it spiraling into the abyss like all the other threads here lately. If you have actual, real experience using .224 bullets on deer sized game, please post your results here. No theories or second hand stories, just real facts, you did it yourself and this is what it was. Tell what bullet you used, the cartridge, impact velocity (twist rate would probably help as well) and the results. What I am looking for is to find out which .224 bullets are up to the job at hand, and at what speeds. I think I know about half a dozen of them but want to know what you guys think.

PLEASE, I ask that we don't bring all the other BS from the other threads in here. If you want to beat someone up, use one of the threads already going for that. You have lots to choose from. I know it will be tough but I think we can do it.

I have only ever shot two deer with a .224 bullet, both were mid-sized whitetail does. Rifle was a Rem 40XBKS in .220 Swift. Bullet was (God forbid) a 55 V-Max pushed by a moderate load of 3031. Both were punched through the ribs, no major bone, at ranges of 50 to 100 yards. One was bang flop, the other went about 50 yards. Lungs were totally destroyed on each. Not the bullet I would choose again, but it did work both times, and I did have plenty of experience with how it performed on coyotes (not blowing up) or I wouldn't have tried it.

Next?
 
Posts: 417 | Location: TX panhandle | Registered: 08 November 2005Reply With Quote
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My hunting partner and I use CCI Br4 primers, 24gr of hodgdon Benchmark powder and 63gr Sierra bullets with a velocity of approx 3000fps in our 223's. we also use 26.5gr of W748 with everything else the same as above. We have shot a number of deer with these loads with excellent results. We have not lost a deer yet with these loads and most have not gone more than 25yds. All of the deer we have shot with these loads, have been shot at less than 200yds and shot broadside only. We have shot does up to 135lbs and bucks up to 180lbs with no problems. As always, shot placement is key especially with the small caliber.
 
Posts: 892 | Location: Central North Carolina | Registered: 04 October 2007Reply With Quote
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Just the facts.
I've loaded both the 222 Rem and 220 Swift for deer/hogs. Knowing what varmint bullets do, I chose the 55g TBBC b/c they were the only 22 deer bullet at that time AND I got to talk to Jack Carter when I ordered them. I killed alot of hogs and some deer. In the 222 they would generally give complete side penetration, but not exit and looked very nice. Seldom DRT kills. In the Swift, side lungs shots would pass through and kill but again seldom DRT kills.
Then my old stand by came out--the partition--in 22, so I loaded them up same as the 55 TBBC.
VERY similar results. I collect partitions so I waited for a big WT doe to face me then put the Swift 60 PAR in the center of her chest at a/b 110yds. She ran 50 yds & died. Recovered the little pill for my collection a/b 6 ribs back. Looks like the little brother to the others on my dresser.
I will also admit to losing larger body shot hogs when using the 22s. If you want a certain kill on larger hogs w/ a 22, shot them in the eye or below the ear. Just my experience.
 
Posts: 1135 | Location: corpus, TX | Registered: 02 June 2009Reply With Quote
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I really like the 55 Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and 60 Partitions for deer.

Just my Opinions,

ddj


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Posts: 966 | Location: Northwest Iowa | Registered: 10 June 2008Reply With Quote
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60gr Partitions and 62gr TSX's are the two I've used. Always waited for a lung shot and never had any trouble with either.

Terry


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Posts: 6315 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 18 May 2002Reply With Quote
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I've used a 22-250 with both 50g. Nosler BT's and 53g. Barnes x's for small mule deer at around 3800 fps. Bang flop with one at 345 yards, literally a hit in mid jump and then just straight down dead.

Just took a small mule deer buck with a .223 with 40g. Nosler BT's at 3925fps with a one shot kill at around 280-300 yards broadside into the chest, one step and down dead.
 
Posts: 1788 | Location: IDAHO | Registered: 12 February 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by TEANCUM:
.223 with 40g. Nosler BT's at 3925fps


3925 out of a .223 Eeker

I don't have any .223's, but I sure would have thought that was out of their realm. Isn't that why God gave us the 220 swift? Big Grin
 
Posts: 3628 | Location: cajun country | Registered: 04 March 2009Reply With Quote
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I've killed 3 deer with .224 caliber bullets.

#1 taken with a Remington load with a 22-250 at night with a nuisance permit with the initial shot taken at probably 80 yards. I think the bullets were 55 gr. The first shot almost took off a front leg (I wasn't used to shooting at night). The second shot hit the lungs and put it down in short order.

#2 taken with a handload using 70 gr. Speer Semi-Spitzers with a 22-250 at a range of 360 yards. One shot through the lungs dropped it where it stood.

#3 taken with a handload using 70 gr. Speer Semi-Spitzers out of a 222. The bullet entered just medial to the left shoulder and angled through and exited the right chest. The deer went about 100 yards and died. The initial shot was taken at probably 80 to 100 yards.

I don't know at what velocities the bullets were going but it was apparently fast enough.
 
Posts: 2911 | Location: Ohio, U.S.A. | Registered: 31 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I use Sierra's # 1360 which is a 55gr. FB spitzer going 3,998 about 15' ahead of the muzzle. On a broadside shot there are no lungs left and never had one go more than 50 yds or so, most are DRT. 1-14 twist

Stepchild


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Posts: 1326 | Location: glennie, mi. USA | Registered: 14 July 2003Reply With Quote
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The 65gr Sierra Game King is the best 224 bullet I have ever used for hunting. I use it in my 223 PSS 1 in 9 twist providing excellent accuracy and having the confidence to make responsible shots.


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Posts: 1652 | Location: Deer Park, Texas | Registered: 08 June 2005Reply With Quote
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Back in the early 80s, I did some experimenting with the 22-250 and a number of bullets and spanning several seasons. My findings concluded thta as long as you used the proper bullet and placed it where the deer lives, the results are going to be quite conclusive.

The best of the bunch at that time were the Hornady 60 grain SPire Point and 60 grain Hollow Points, the 55 grain Sierra GameKing spitzer and the 55 grain BTHP GameKing.

Since then, I have also used the 53 grain Sierra flat base bench rest, 63 grain Sierra SMP, 64 grain Winchester Power Point and the 70 grain Speer among others.

Of the lot, the 70 grain Speer was my least favorite, though it worked decently. The wound channels were smaller and there was less tissue destruction, but it killed cleanly nonetheless.

The better bullets available today like the Partition, Trophy Bonded, etc. only make the results even more certain.

No, the .22 calibers are not for everyone. And no, they are not my first, second or even third choice for hunting. But there is no denying they work. I never had a deer run more than a very short distance, and most simply folded on the spot.

In an ADC-type situation, I also used a .223 to take out a number of hogs, and it worked like a charm. I used the Sierra 53 grain flat based bullet as I needed a projectile stout enough to make it to the lungs but fragile enough so as not to exit.


Bobby
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Posts: 9412 | Location: Shiner TX USA | Registered: 19 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I've killed several does and had 7 other bucks and does killed yb kids with a .223 on my ranch, 3 of them being the "first" deer. All were killed withfactory ammo or reloads purchased from Dallas Reloading, both using Winchester 64 gr Power Point bullets. All died either on the spot or within 50 yards. All were heart/lung shots.

I'm not about to say there are not better bullets but these seemed to do the job for us. I don't remember the exact details of every kill but most were under 100 yards and I think one was about 125.


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Posts: 17099 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: 07 May 2001Reply With Quote
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Have used .223's on hogs, deer etc,
but as Bobby said--
not my first, second or third choice-

Partitions, Bear Claws, etc are my preference,
though the GameKing has worked.

Have also used 90gr customs(bonded) out of a 22 Newton

All work, just reduces the margin for error. IMO

(As I have said before elsewhere, my Dad used a 22 Hornet, head shots only, range of 150 or less--
never saw him miss--or lose an animal )


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Posts: 4593 | Location: TX | Registered: 03 March 2009Reply With Quote
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I've taken one whitetail, a dry doe, with a Winchester 64 grain powerpoint in a 22 inch 1:9 boltgun. The shot was about 200 yards across a harvested field at legal first light. The bullet passed through both shoulders without hitting the leg or shoulder bones, punched ribs coming and going, pulped the front lobes of both lungs, and severed the plumbing from the top of the heart. She ran about 50 yards toward a shelterbelt with a field of unharvested corn on the other side. She stopped and staggered about as though she didn't know how to get through the trees. Then she noticed she was dead and fell over. There was a fine misty spray of blood on the snow on either side of her tracks from the point of impact to the spot where she expired. After that morning I passed on several shots that would have been a cinch with a 45/70, 30'06, or maybe even a 243 loaded with Nosler Partitions.
 
Posts: 1733 | Registered: 31 January 2006Reply With Quote
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I used a 55 grain Sierra FB in a .222 at about 2900 FPS on Texas smallish deer with excellent results.

Most .224s are excellent performers on grouping and most folks using one are good shooters.
 
Posts: 908 | Location: Western Colorado | Registered: 21 June 2006Reply With Quote
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Several years ago I shot 2 whitetail doe with a Steyr AUG.
Both shots were @ 100 yards.

One was with a reload with a 60gr Hornady HP.
Hornady stated their 60gr HP bullet was tougher than thier 60gr SP and was better for deer.

The second was shot with Samson factory 63gr SP.
This ammo is from IMI [Israeli Military Industries], and is some of the most accurate 223 ammo I have ever shot.

Both shots were complete pass throughs, both deer fell in their tracks.

If I was to shoot a deer with a 223 today, I would use the Samson load, I still have some left, or the Federal Tactical load as it uses the Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullet.

I also think I could kill deer no problem with Winchester factory 55gr Ballistic Tip.

However, I think using a 223 for deer is a lot like using a handgun or a bow.

I would wait until I had a mostly broadside shot, and shoot the deer right behind the shoulder. If you can wait for the correct shot the 223 will kill deer....

But if I was hunting for a big buck I would pick something bigger that would kill a deer from ANY angle.


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Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Lots of deer shot with

63 grn Serria semi-pointed out of a 223

I've had a few drop to a 40grn serria in a 22 hornet pushed along at a moderate 2650-2700 if I looked at my books.

I've had good luck with hornday bullets when I did'nt try to push them so hard that they turned inside out. 60grn spire point out of a 22-250 at around 3350fps has tag a few does and bucks on our little hunting ground

When you step up to the 22/6mm or swift-- 60grn partition or one of the super bullets X, berger vld's, GS customs, or others that I dont know much about.

I know for a fact a 22/6mm is a deer puncher with a 60grn partition pushed easy to 3600fps.


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Posts: 2289 | Location: Texas | Registered: 02 July 2005Reply With Quote
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On small Texas does I have used the 53 gr. TSX in my 22-250 on two, one DRT, one ran 10 yards. 1:12 twist running 3700 fps.

I took one last season with my AR using the Sierra #1365 SBT, DRT.
1:9 twist running 3100 fps.

I am loading the 65 gr. Sierra SBT for the AR and plan on taking a doe with it this year. It did great on two javelina a few weeks ago.

Bob


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Posts: 3065 | Location: Hondo, Texas USA | Registered: 28 August 2001Reply With Quote
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I don't know for sure how many deer; probably 12 or 15. Too many hogs to count. Used so far:

55 gr Ballistic Tip
60 GR Partition
TBBC from the Carter days (I think 55 gr)
40 gr V-Max (yes, you can get to 4000 fps)
Sierra 52 gr HPBT in my AR

I never got the accuracy I wanted from the early Barnes 224 bullets so I never got to use them on game. I never lost an animal using .224 bullets.

This year I'm hunting with my 550 Magnum and I don't think bullet choice will be as critical....


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Posts: 11142 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003Reply With Quote
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The old Nosler Solid Base (lead tippped) bullets made pretty good deer bullets. I took two does with a single shot (their necks lined up and I couldn't resist the opportunity) with the old 55 grain Zippedo out of a 22-250. I've also taken deer and hogs with the successor to that bullet, the 55 grain Solid Base. I was able to luck into some 60 grain Nosler Solid Base that I've loaded for my grandson's first deer hunt this year. MY theory on why Nosler dropped the Solid Base design is that they were just too damn close in performance to their more pricey Partitions.

Anecdotally, the Hornady 55-60 grain bullets have a reputation for holding together pretty well, as does the WW 64 grainer.

I have a friend who likes to shoot deer and hogs with a 55 grain .243 Ballistic Tip out of a .243 Ackley Improved at around 4,000 fps. I'm always amazed at the success he has. In the meantime, I'm shooting hogs with a 180 grain Accubond from a .300 H&H and they're running off Confused
 
Posts: 13245 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonecreek:
The old Nosler Solid Base (lead tippped) bullets made pretty good deer bullets. I took two does with a single shot (their necks lined up and I couldn't resist the opportunity) with the old 55 grain Zippedo out of a 22-250. I've also taken deer and hogs with the successor to that bullet, the 55 grain Solid Base. I was able to luck into some 60 grain Nosler Solid Base that I've loaded for my grandson's first deer hunt this year. MY theory on why Nosler dropped the Solid Base design is that they were just too damn close in performance to their more pricey Partitions.

Anecdotally, the Hornady 55-60 grain bullets have a reputation for holding together pretty well, as does the WW 64 grainer.

I have a friend who likes to shoot deer and hogs with a 55 grain .243 Ballistic Tip out of a .243 Ackley Improved at around 4,000 fps. I'm always amazed at the success he has. In the meantime, I'm shooting hogs with a 180 grain Accubond from a .300 H&H and they're running off Confused



I use to live in the eastern part of Montana as in boo-coo deer and antelope. It "seemed" at least that the .22-250 was the preferred deer/antelope round for a great number of guys.
I've shot a lot of both deer and antelope with a .22-250 using the Hornady 55 grain SP W/C (with cannelure), a stout load of IMR 4895 and CCI 200's clocking near 3,700FPS out of a 26 inch McGowen barreled 788 Remington. That bullet has a heavier jacket than a lot of other .22 bullets and is very effective on deer and goats if placed "exactly" where it needs to be. I no longer hunt big game with .22 calibers so no way I'm gonna spend big $$$ for a specialized big game bullet in a marginal caliber for my uses. Just my opinion.
My preferred shot is a broadside, standing still (I don't shoot running game), lung shot.
I shoot a lot. I have shot many many big game animals in my life (I'm an old fart). I pass on more shots than I take when armed with a marginal weapon (I don't like tracking wounded game). Keep in mind out here the size of the deer vary a great deal, some whitetails might weigh 110LBS on the hoof where a big Mulie might go as much as 350 (that would be a huge buck). This one I shot a couple years back with a .44 Mag. (also a controversial way to hunt) he'd a gone at least 300 standing.



With that in mind what might be a marginal shot on a 110 LB whitetail would kill it on the spot and the same shot on a trophy 350Lb Mulie buck might well have him off to the high peaks (mulies are tough).

I stayed completely off the other thread cause I'm right in the middle on this (with qualifiers) and I don't want to squabble, I've killed a lot of critters with a .22-250.
That said. Fact! I have hunted with a number of dudes that get way excited at the sight of game, take hurried shots that weren't in the "exact" spot they intended and guess who got to walk miles and drag a critter back those same miles and that's if your lucky and that ain't just with marginal calibers. Extrapolate your own conclusions for those "personal" "actual" experiences. Then have a great hunting season, ours starts tomorrow Big Grin.


"If a man buys a rifle at a gun show and his wife doesn't know it"...Did he really buy a rifle?
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Posts: 1181 | Location: Bozeman Montana | Registered: 04 April 2003Reply With Quote
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JTPinTX,

I/my son have used a Rem 700 LVSF in 22-250 with 1:14 twist 22" barrel and 53gr Barnes TSX bullets @ 3850fps with great success. This has been over the last 5 or so years

I am not into keeping a count, but I would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 dozen deer/antelope. With deer accounting for 95% of this total.

The shots have been from 40-450 yards with all shot types of shot angles. I have yet to recover a bullet, but I did find some petals once, while processing a deer. The penetration on this combination has been outstanding and I don't feel the need to "limit" my shot selection any more than normal. A good shot presentation is just that. No time while carrying that combo have I passed up a shot, that I would have taken with a "bigger" gun.

We have had just two problems, the most recent being a little over a week ago. But both of those problems can be directly attributed to the nut pulling the trigger and a "bigger" gun wouldn't have helped the situations. Both of which, ended up with the venison in the freezer.

I can without reservation and 100% confidence state that this combo will get the job done.

I purposely stayed out of the 223 for "threads" because I have zero experience with a 223 on deer/antelope.
 
Posts: 2034 | Location: Black Mining Hills of Dakota | Registered: 22 June 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by montdoug:
I stayed completely off the other thread cause I'm right in the middle on this (with qualifiers) and I don't want to squabble, I've killed a lot of critters with a .22-250.
That said. Fact! I have hunted with a number of dudes that get way excited at the sight of game, take hurried shots that weren't in the "exact" spot they intended .

Well written and to the point. beerroger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Daniel77 you can push the 40gr bullets to 4000fps i have done this in a rem 788 and a howa 1500.I just don't do it all the time.I have used the 60gr part with good hits,they don't go far.Good Luck
 
Posts: 1371 | Location: Plains,TEXAS | Registered: 14 January 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel77:
quote:
Originally posted by TEANCUM:
.223 with 40g. Nosler BT's at 3925fps


3925 out of a .223 Eeker

I don't have any .223's, but I sure would have thought that was out of their realm. Isn't that why God gave us the 220 swift? Big Grin


Easily done with a 26" barrel a 40g. Nosler BT and a healthy dose of RL-7.

This is a load that I got from Seafire2 and tried it in 2 .223's. The gun I'm shooting now a Rem 700 had to back down a grain and still got about the same velocity as the other.

Your mileage may differ.
 
Posts: 1788 | Location: IDAHO | Registered: 12 February 2005Reply With Quote
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However, I think using a 223 for deer is a lot like using a handgun or a bow.


best analogy I have seen so far on the subject...

whatever you use, it still boils down to hunter skill and knowing both the limitations and skills of themselves and their equipment...

bigger calibers can just make poor shot placement more forgiving at certain times... but still is no substitute for the skill of the rifleman and hunter to know both his skills and his equipment's; abilities and limitations...
 
Posts: 9316 | Location: Between Confusion and Lunacy ( Portland OR & San Francisco CA) | Registered: 12 September 2007Reply With Quote
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I pass on more shots than I take when armed with a marginal weapon (I don't like tracking wounded game).


I don't either. I shoot deer in or near heavy cover. A tracking runner is not my style of hunting. I like them down in 30 feet or less.
 
Posts: 13978 | Location: http://www.tarawaontheweb.org/tarawa2.jpg | Registered: 03 December 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by seafire2:
quote:
However, I think using a 223 for deer is a lot like using a handgun or a bow.


best analogy I have seen so far on the subject...

whatever you use, it still boils down to hunter skill and knowing both the limitations and skills of themselves and their equipment...

bigger calibers can just make poor shot placement more forgiving at certain times... but still is no substitute for the skill of the rifleman and hunter to know both his skills and his equipment's; abilities and limitations...


Yes, I also agree conceptually with this post and analogy. Grouping the 223 as a tangible tool in the same class for deer hunting with a handgun or bow is one thing. However, I don't group the users of the 223 in general with those who choose handguns or bows for deer. Although there are some similarities, it seems to me that many - many of those using the 223 don't have the same frame of mind about the limitations as do those who choose to hunt deer with a handgun or bow. In a big way, many seem to be hunters of a different class altogether.

Now, I'm not talking about everyone, and grouping everyone into the same pot. Obviously there are many many 223 hunters on this forum who can easily recognize the realistic combination of the limitations of their chosen hunting tools, in combination with their skills, and act prudently. But I think these guys are in a special class, and a small percentage of the overall group that will use the 223 for deer. There is at least one guy herein who is probably representative of the other 90%, IMO. I admit that it's probably something that can't be proven, but I think it is so. I also admit that by including only those on this forum, and their use of the 223, as a group, most likely it is appropriate to put them (10%) in the same class as the more ethical (90%) handgun and bow hunters.

From what I've seen, generally handgun and bow hunters seem willing to accept the limitations of their tools, far more readily than many of those using the 223. For example, some readily and brag about it, taking 300 yd shots with their 223, which would be like a bow hunter taking an 80 yd shot and bragging about it. I've just not heard about or seen that. In both cases - 300 yd shots 223, 80 yd shots bow - certainly it can be done, and certainly shot placment is important. The difference is that to many 223 users this seems normal, and to the bow hunter it is not something they talk about, much less to brag about, and even less - gain approval and acceptance from cohorts.

That's what seperates the bow and handgun hunter from the other 90% of the 223 deer hunter, IMO.

KB


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Posts: 12818 | Registered: 16 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by seafire2:
From what I've seen, generally handgun and bow hunters seem willing to accept the limitations of their tools, far more readily than many of those using the 223. For example, some readily and brag about it, taking 300 yd shots with their 223, which would be like a bow hunter taking an 80 yd shot and bragging about it. I've just not heard about or seen that. In both cases - 300 yd shots 223, 80 yd shots bow - certainly it can be done, and certainly shot placment is important. The difference is that to many 223 users this seems normal, and to the bow hunter it is not something they talk about, much less to brag about, and even less - gain approval and acceptance from cohorts.

That's what seperates the bow and handgun hunter from the other 90% of the 223 deer hunter, IMO.KB

thumbNicely written! claproger


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Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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When my dad retired and sold the farm he built a new house on the lake on 25 acres and mentioned he'd like something smaller than his 7mm Rem Mag since there were houses on three sides. I sent him a used Savage 340B in .222 Remington.

He used 50 grain Winchester factory loads to kill dozens (yes, several dozen) of deer over the next 15 years. None ever ran. None ever went more than 50 yards. Most dropped in their tracks. Some would trot off several yards and look around before falling over dead.

He shot every one of them through the lungs, broadside from 200 yards or less and most at less than 50 yards. They were all in the open with quite a way to go to get to cover.

In the hands of a patient, expert shot who knows the limitations of the cartridge, they work wonders.

Me, I like to zap 'em with a 100 grain Nosler BT @ 3,531 fps from my .25-06. I can reach way out there and I don't have to wait for the perfect broadside shot.


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Posts: 165 | Location: Seymour, Mo | Registered: 15 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Well, for the most part I am really impressed. this thread ran a long ways with alot of good information before the debate on whether you should or should not began filtering in. I think everyones mind was made up long ago on whether you "should" or 'shouldn't", and further debate really isn't going to change it. I am just interested in what works when you have already decided you are going to.

For the record, at this point I am primarily a bow hunter, and would prefer to never take a bowshot over 25 if I didn't have to. I did double lung a doe at 40 one time and watched her fall, but probably won't take a shot like that again. When I do put down my bow my primary deer rifle is a 30-06 with 165's, followed by a 7x57 with 150's. However, there are special situations where a light caliber does make sense and can be very effective. That is what I am talking about, and what I aimed the discussion at. I am not trying to call anyone out or anything like that, just trying to clarify my position. As such, there has been alot of very useful information in this thread. Thanks for the data guys, and keep it coming.
 
Posts: 417 | Location: TX panhandle | Registered: 08 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
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Originally posted by seafire2:
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However, I think using a 223 for deer is a lot like using a handgun or a bow.


best analogy I have seen so far on the subject...

whatever you use, it still boils down to hunter skill and knowing both the limitations and skills of themselves and their equipment...

bigger calibers can just make poor shot placement more forgiving at certain times... but still is no substitute for the skill of the rifleman and hunter to know both his skills and his equipment's; abilities and limitations...


Yes, I also agree conceptually with this post and analogy. Grouping the 223 as a tangible tool in the same class for deer hunting with a handgun or bow is one thing. However, I don't group the users of the 223 in general with those who choose handguns or bows for deer. Although there are some similarities, it seems to me that many - many of those using the 223 don't have the same frame of mind about the limitations as do those who choose to hunt deer with a handgun or bow. In a big way, many seem to be hunters of a different class altogether.

Now, I'm not talking about everyone, and grouping everyone into the same pot. Obviously there are many many 223 hunters on this forum who can easily recognize the realistic combination of the limitations of their chosen hunting tools, in combination with their skills, and act prudently. But I think these guys are in a special class, and a small percentage of the overall group that will use the 223 for deer. There is at least one guy herein who is probably representative of the other 90%, IMO. I admit that it's probably something that can't be proven, but I think it is so. I also admit that by including only those on this forum, and their use of the 223, as a group, most likely it is appropriate to put them (10%) in the same class as the more ethical (90%) handgun and bow hunters.

From what I've seen, generally handgun and bow hunters seem willing to accept the limitations of their tools, far more readily than many of those using the 223. For example, some readily and brag about it, taking 300 yd shots with their 223, which would be like a bow hunter taking an 80 yd shot and bragging about it. I've just not heard about or seen that. In both cases - 300 yd shots 223, 80 yd shots bow - certainly it can be done, and certainly shot placment is important. The difference is that to many 223 users this seems normal, and to the bow hunter it is not something they talk about, much less to brag about, and even less - gain approval and acceptance from cohorts.

That's what seperates the bow and handgun hunter from the other 90% of the 223 deer hunter, IMO.

KB


Kaboom (aka flock shooter)

You are entitled to your opinion, just seems like almost always your opinions are pulled from some orifice and are not reflective of the actual facts that you base your arm chair opinion on.

Your example of the 80 yard bow shots again is against the reality of what the facts are. I have taken a Pope & Young bull elk at over 80 yards and have it hanging on my wall. One shot, through the lungs and he goes about 25 yards and tries to bungle below tipping over dead in about 20 seconds. One of my sons took a bull elk right at 80 yards with one shot that scored 335. I've taken mule deer bucks at over 80 yards repeatedly with a 90 pound compound and found it not to be that hard if you practice a lot at those ranges.

Out in the West the area is more open than many places and shots are longer. Many of the bow hunters here in the West will have pins, if they use sights and most do now, at 70 and 80 yards.

It's like Clint said " A man's got to know his limitations". Your limitation are much greater then many on this board and your opinions reflect that. Just don't think that everyone has to have the same limitations that you do.
 
Posts: 1788 | Location: IDAHO | Registered: 12 February 2005Reply With Quote
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BTW montdoug, I though that was a good post. I think we probably think quite a bit alike on the subject.
 
Posts: 417 | Location: TX panhandle | Registered: 08 November 2005Reply With Quote
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BOOMAround 3 years ago I ran tests on Hornady 22 caliber 60 grain Barrier bullets. One feature that really sparked me was the thick jacket. The accuracy tests proved totally acceptable, and the penetration and apparant tissue desruction were really surprising. from the muzzle the bullet went through .062" of soft plastic, .062" of mild steel,.125" of hard plastic and 9"of totally water saturated compressed paper.The bullet was moving right at 2900fps.
I sent a double handful of these bullets to an avowed .223 deer hunter to try out on black tail. Still waiting for the results. beerroger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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I have kille 3 good mule deer bucks with a 22-250 and Sierra's #1365 loaded no more that 3500fps Also some antelope-all DRT
 
Posts: 18 | Registered: 27 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Around 3 years ago I ran tests on Hornady 22 caliber 60 grain Barrier bullets.

I've got a double sack full of those bullets (500 or so), but I can't find anything that shoots them well. Perhaps I just haven't looked hard enough.

I thought that they might make good deer/hog bullets and would like to hear from someone who's tried them.
 
Posts: 13245 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I shot 2 bucks with a 223, 1 using I think 64 grain power point about 100 yards, lung hit and ran about 50 yards. The other was using 45 or 55 grain Ballistic silver tip and the buck was about 200-250 yards, it was a luck shot to the head, talk bout a mushy mellon.
 
Posts: 529 | Location: S.E. Oregon | Registered: 27 January 2009Reply With Quote
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I had forgotten about the barrier bullets, I would like to know more about them. I think they would be a good one to try. I plan to set up a .224 penetration test before long, once I get some test projectiles rounded up. Well, honestly, I'm sure it will be next spring, we are full blown into deer season and high school football right now, and time is at a premium. If you need to ditch a few of those Stonecreek, just let me know.
 
Posts: 417 | Location: TX panhandle | Registered: 08 November 2005Reply With Quote
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I shoot a 22/6mm for 99% of everything I hunt.

My load for years was a 69gr sierra match king at 3575fps. It worked great on groundhogs and coyotes....but on deer if they were close it would surface splash. I had a buck at 35 yards that I shot and it made a skoal can sized hole and broke 3 ribs on the entrance and didnt exit.It killed the deer but I was unhappy with that performance.

I then worked up a load with the 70gr barnes X bullet. It shoots great at 3750fps. I have shot one deer at close range with that load. A doe at 30 yards with entrance right in pocket off of shoulder and exit in the meaty part of the opposite leg by the elbow. It was a bang flop.

thanks
224TTH
 
Posts: 79 | Registered: 13 May 2003Reply With Quote
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I have killed hundreds of deer and hogs with my .224/5.56 guns. Favorite/go to rifle is a custom m700 with a 1:7 twist douglass match bbl. I shoot the 70gr TSX at 2850fps using 24grs of TAC powder

THE BEST bullet for medium sized game is the Barnes TSX, the heaviest your bbl will stabilize. The faster the twist the better for more rpm tissue damage.

Second best is Sierra's 65gr SBT but not driven over 3300 fps or it loses it's integrity.

After that the TBBC, NP, 64gr PP are all "6 one half dozen the other".

I have taken close shots(15 yards), long shots(400 yards), frontal chest, broadside, severe quartering, etc. Use a TSX, put it where any good bullet needs to be and you will have a dead animal. I prefer the 70gr bullet for penetration, SPEED DOES NOT KILL. I have never lost an animal with my 224's and usual tracking is under 30 yards.

I even killed a 250# cow nilgai with my 22/6mm this Aug. using the 70gr TSX. On impact she fell in a heap, regained her feet and went 30 yards then fell again not to get back up. The bullet hit the back of the lungs broadside and was lodged just under the skin on the off side.

If you are shooting a Swift, 22-250 or a high speed wildcat use the TSX because very few(I can't think of any) cup and core .224 bullets can handle high impact velocities.

Perry
 
Posts: 2249 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 01 November 2005Reply With Quote
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