Hi,

I have a M700 long action in 30-06 and want to rebarrel it into some 6.5mm cartridge. The rifle will be used for hunting and practicing at ranges from 100 to 400 meters, maybe I´ll practice at longer ranges when I get comfortable up to 400m. My weight aim is basically to copy the 700 BDL factory rifle. That means I´ll only have 24" barrel. I´m not sure which cartridge to go with but I was leaning towards towards the 6.5x284 but have been reading that 24" barrel is to short for it. Therefore I´m having seconds thoughts about it and have also been considering the .260 Rem. I will probably mostly be shooting the 123 or 139 scenar bullets.

So my question to you is which 6.5 cartridge would you chose for your 24" barrreled hunting rifle if you were in my position?

Thanks,
Jon

P.S. I reaload so I´m not limited to factory ammo

6.5x55, the cartridge the .260 wants to be. In that Remington action you can stoke it a bit more than the M96, you have excellent brass available (read: Lapua)as well. Get an 8" twist, feed it with slowish powders under the 139 pills and have fun.


Eric

What Tahoe said is accurate and right on. However, the 6.5 x 284 would also work better in a long action than it does in a short action because the longer bullets could be seated out further for more powder capacity if the battel was throated to allow that.

People are shooting the 6.5 x 284 in handguns for the added velocity it gives over the 260 Remington. It will also give an advantage with a 24 inch barrel as well, so its mostly a matter of personal preference. Either will punch holes in paper or deer with equal effiency and I doubt that the paper or the animal will ever know the difference...Rusty.

Don't know if you have polar bear in your back yard, but more of them have probably been killed with the 6.5x55 than with any other cartridge, and with the full jacket military ammo at that.

Personally, I like the 6.5x55, but since you're starting from scratch with an 06 length action, I'd go for the 6.5-06. The 6.5-284 is too much of a hassle fireforming brass and you may lose one down because of its larger diameter case. Factory 6.5-284 brass is expensive. The 6.5-06 and 6.5-284 are ballisitic twins. Lou

First off a 260 that is throated long, instead of that gawd awful short throat that SAAMI specs come up with, will blow the doors of a 6.5x55 Swede. With that said hands down the 6.5-06. It's a long range winner too.

I'd go for the 6.5-06 for one single 6.5mm rifle, It's the thinking man's .270, and it just works!! Reloading cannot be simpler with the plethora of .30-06 based cases around. I've usually made my brass from .270 cases, cause they are easier to squeeze than .30-06, and usually less expensive than .25-06 cases. You can hardly beat a 6.5-06, plus you can always sell one easily once you are tired of playing with it, I've seen three of them go that way. If you can live with less power, then go to the 6.5x55mm or the .260 Remington. I'd also suggest the 6.5x57mm, but the brass is too expensive.

LLS

My favorite long action 6.5mm bore cartridge is the 256 Newton. That said, it is a PITA to form cases when compared to either the 6.5-06 or 6.5-06AI.

Although many people ignore this point, if you look, you'll find that the 6.5x55 and 284 cases are exactly the same length. 6.5x55s are generally throated deeper to handle the 156/160 grain bullets, while most 6.5-284 reamers will cut a shallower throat that is more favorable to bullets in the 120 to 140 grain range.

Cut to the chase, I'd recommend the 6.5-06AI if you are looking to squeeze the maximum performance potential out of your 24" 6.5mm bore rifle. If you stand a little less performance and a little ease of making cases, I'd go with the 6.5-06.

Jeff

Max,
Well I figured someone would stick up for the Swede's little brother, the .260 . And in the load manuals you're correct. However, in modern actions, the Swede can be loaded to higher pressure than the small ring Mausers, in fact there is a slightly modified case (to keep it from chambering in the Swede mausers) called the 6.5 SKAN which is loaded to said pressures. That said, loaded to similar pressures, case capacity tells, and the 260 has less horsepower.


Eric

Tahoe,

Not by much, I believe, if I'm correct, the Swede only holds 4 or 5 grs of powder more? And is that actual capacity with being able to seat a bullet? Like I said, a 260 throated out, like I did to mine, keep the bullet out of the powder area, the 260 doesn't give much worthwhile up to the Swede even when the Swede is loaded in a modern bolt action. I know the Swede is dear to alot of shooters, and rightfully so as it's a great round, but really not any better then the 260. The 260 can be had in a shorter, lighter, and stiffer action too.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
Personally, I like the 6.5x55, but since you're starting from scratch with an 06 length action, I'd go for the 6.5-06. The 6.5-284 is too much of a hassle fireforming brass and you may lose one down because of its larger diameter case. Factory 6.5-284 brass is expensive. The 6.5-06 and 6.5-284 are ballisitic twins. Lou

Dr Lou has it right.

A really slim profile barrel will give you the weight you want in 26" barrel gaining better slow burning powder efficiency. Did that with a 6mmX.270 IMP and lost no accurracy from a wippy barrel. roger

I really like my .260 rem. in a ruger M-77 22 in. its very flat and accurate. with a 120 gr. sierra and 42 grs of RL-15 over a croney it is 2920 fps have killed big white tail at over 300 yrds. .260 rem is a short action. i think all the others are long actions. i like short action rounds.

Well everyone has an opinion, here's mine.
When speaking of the 6.5 designation if you are all about accuracy then the 6.5-284 is the king hands down and yes brass is available from several sources without having to re-size from something else (.284 Win). The 6.5x55 is probably second in the accuracy department but loses some horsepower when compared to the 6.5-284. The .260 is in all respects the ballistic twin of the 6.5x55 Swede but I'm not aware of benchrest records abounding with it. I'm not saying it is in-accurate just saying it is up against tough competition with the 6.5-284. The 6.5/06 is a dandy but slightly over powder capacity for the bore size, in other words you are wasting grains of powder to eek out more velocity and as far as I know it is a re-size propasition only when it comes to getting brass.
My first choice in your shoes would be the 6.5-284 and the 6.5x55 Swede as second, I already have a Swede and will have the 6.5-284 real soon or a wildcat 6.5 WSM shortly.
Good luck in your endeavors.

It's a known fact that the 308 family of cartridges are inherently more accurate due to a more efficient shape for powder combustion. The 308 long ago replaced the 30-06 for long range accuracy. There are no flys on the 243 Win either. I sincerely doubt that the 6.5 Swede is more accurate then a 260. How could one claim the 6.5-06 slightly over powdered for the bore size when the 6.5-284 has just about the same exact capacity? By the way the 260 has quite a reputation at the silhouette shoots.

quote:

It's a known fact that the 308 family of cartridges are inherently more accurate

Known to who?
This is pure

I thought 284 capacity was close to '06, just like the 350 mag?????/

Anyway, I thought the Swede had about 2 gr more capacity, but as someone pointed out, there likely are more 6.5 Swede's with records than 260, 260 is a good round, but I owned and shot some, and maybe will again, but other than having an action that weighs a few ounces more, see the Swede as my choice, but I am not trying to stretch range. The 284 and '06 case will perform albeit more blast, recoil, and less barrel life, not a trade off I want, but some are willing to do so.

I don't know what real difference in the field will be seen by using a larger case vs moderate, but with good accuracy and shot placement, the 260 and 6.5x55 should range easily to 400 on game if not further with heavier bullets.

If I were building a long action, I would go with 6.5 Swede and a Swede Improved would bump you up to say 2900-3000 w/ 140gr depending on barrel and the blast and barrel life would be improved and you can use Lapua brass.

It seems there might have been a 6.5/270 in a factory form in europe. Don't know about dies/brass

here:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/C...r/412921/Main/405623

6.5x64 Brenneke

I just like things simple, would do a Swede and enjoy the qualities it has. That is just me. A 270 loaded with a good 140 or 150 bullet should give a 6.5 a good run for the money, or even a 280 if you want to simplify things more, but I do like 6.5's for their high BC/SD with milder recoil than other larger bores.

Having a long action to build, I would put a long action ctg in it.

My furthest deer was at 400 with a 6br/105 AMAX
so don't worry about needing more power to that range.

Some 6.5/284's are built on long actions, I would ask if you want the shorter barrel life with that round though.

I love my 6.5 Gibbs, but if I did it again I'd probably go with a 6.5/06. The fireforming with the Gibbs is a bit of a PITA, and an extra 100fps isn't something you'd ever notice in a hunting rifle.

I am thinking about a 6.5 WSM though....


Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

It seems there might have been a 6.5/270 in a factory form in europe. Don't know about dies/brass

thats just a 6.5-06.

.264 Hawk! Z-Hat Custom Guns.

For a long action, 6.5x55. For a short action, the .260 Rem. Virtually ballistic twins. Not enough difference between the two to get yer panties in a wad.

I'd have to agree with Doc Lou on this one as well. I have, or have owned most of the cartridges mentioned above including the 260, 6.5x55, 6.5-284, 6.5-06AI, 264 Win Mag and if I was to make just one from a long action 700, it would be a plain 6.5-06. There is nothing wrong with any of them, as has been pointed out here, but for my money, it would be the best of all worlds.

All of mine are 1/2" shooters, if I do my part, so accuracy is not an issue with any of them. As I fireform more 6.5-06AI brass, I think how much easier it would be to just throw a piece of 25-06 brass in the die and go on. But none of them is a real problem.

The 6.5-06 (either standard or AI version) would be a much cheaper and easier fit for your 700 long action. In fact, nothing would be required other than a new barrel.

Going to a 6.5-.284 would require magazine work (not always fully successful) and likely reduce your magazine capacity by one round. You would also have an overly long magazine (but that's not much of a problem.)

Insofar as loading either of the '06 derivatives, necking down '06 brass allows you to set the headspace perfectly for the first firing and minimizes case stretching. Either cartridge will get you within about 100 fps of the .264 Winchester, which means you'll have an excellent long-range medium game gun. Hint: Check out the 125 and 140 Nosler Partitions for all-around performance.

jonj

I have a 6.5-06 built with a 24" barrel, and I am able to wring out 3200fps with a 120 grain bullet. Since the action is the correct length, screw on the 6.5-06 barrel, and go shooting. The 6.5-06 is really a fine cartridge, and I just fell heir to a can of Norma 205, and I can't wait to see what she will do with some of that!!

Jerry

Jerry

quote:

I love my 6.5 Gibbs, but if I did it again I'd probably go with a 6.5/06.

I have a marvelous 6.5 X 55 in a '98 Mauser and the only thing that keeps me from running a 6.5-06 reamer in it is that it works so damn well!!!!

Vapodog, sounds like you are experiencing what others have for over 112 years.

My point about 6.5x64, is that it is a legitimate ctg, factory brass is out there, but never owned one, but it sounds from owners you can cut a chamber for the 6.5-06 and NOT have to turn necks, I like that to keep things simpler, less time.

I think a 6.5 WSM might have had a loyal following if it were saami'd, but 6.5's have not traditionally been popular as we know in the US, perhaps the 270 took the sales of potential 6.5's.

For a do it all round in a small bore, the 6.5-06 has the performance. Me, I'd rather get more barrel life in a Swede and not form brass but that is me.

How about a 6.5 Grendel (6.5 PPC improved)?

www.65grendel.com

Mine is a CZ527 that was 7.62x39, but now wears a 19 inch LW barrel in 6.5 Grendel and is topped with a Burris 2x-7x Compact.

Sorry, just realized you were working with an 06 length bolt action. If it was me, I would go with a 6.5-06 of some type as I have copious amounts of 06 brass laying around.

This sure got a lot of responses in short order...

several years ago, I looked at the same thing with a long action available... although in a Model 70 instead...

I had the luxury of getting to play with a few friends rifles.... in 6.5 x 55, 6.5 x 284, 6.5/06 and 6.5/06AI...

With being able to have a long action with a long magazine and a chamber reamed to take a long seated bullet, I actually found out exactly what the Swedes did when they designed the 6.5 x 55 in 1894....

Despite more case capacity, I was not able to get any appreciable increase in velocity using the longer 06 case or the 284 case....than the Swede gave me with using the case capacity to the fullness of it, and seating the bullet out long....

I also had very very good showing in velocity and better accuracy using the mid range powders, like RL 15, IMR 4064 and 4895, W 748, BLC2.......

So my recommendation would be the 6.5 x 55... on a long action and take advantage and have a deep throated chamber...

ON my project, I went with a ballistic twin of the 6.5 x 55... just because brass was easier to get... the 6.5 x 57... using 257 Roberts brass instead, necked up...but I have several 6.5 x 55s, and a 6.5 x 55 on a long action featherweight barrel also....

Both the 6.5 x 55 and the 6.5 x 57 each run at the same velocity to 50 fps slower than a friends 6.5/06 Ackley...with him using 10 to 12 grains more powder...

I even bought the reamers and the reload dies for the 6.5 x 284.. from all that I had been told about it... but after building the 6.5 x 57... I never saw the need for the 6.5 x 284... as I was already getting the velocities that the 284 version was claiming....my 6.5 x 57 does have a 28 inch barrel, and the 6.5 x 55 has a 26 inch barrel on it... and the military Swede has a 29 inch factory barrel on it...

cheers and good luck..
seafire

Seafire

I think your chronograph is off. There should be an appreciatable difference in velocity between the 6.5 Swede and the 6.5-06 with appropiate barrel lenghts. Same as your friends 6.5-06 Ackley. Now I'll say that you would have to shoot a variety of 6.5-06 Ackley's out of a variety of brand of barrels too. Your friends barrell may be tight and/or rough, both which would reduce velocity. Also what length barrel does he have? I know the 6.5 Swede is a good round, but it's not that darn good to beat a 6.5-06. Next you'll be saying you're wasting powder and burning your barrel out fast if you have a 264 Win Mag, because it doesn't have that much appreciatable velocity then your 6.5 Swede. I just don't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by MaxPayne:
Seafire

I think your chronograph is off. There should be an appreciatable difference in velocity between the 6.5 Swede and the 6.5-06 with appropiate barrel lenghts. Same as your friends 6.5-06 Ackley. Now I'll say that you would have to shoot a variety of 6.5-06 Ackley's out of a variety of brand of barrels too. Your friends barrell may be tight and/or rough, both which would reduce velocity. Also what length barrel does he have? I know the 6.5 Swede is a good round, but it's not that darn good to beat a 6.5-06. Next you'll be saying you're wasting powder and burning your barrel out fast if you have a 264 Win Mag, because it doesn't have that much appreciatable velocity then your 6.5 Swede. I just don't think so.

Mine must be off too because I've found the same thing. I figured when I had my 6.5x06 made that it would blow away my wife's 6.5x55,,,,,wrong! I love my 6.5x06 but now I also have a 6.5x55 mod 70 and guess what? It too runs my 6.5x06 up against the fence! Figured out how to fix that tho, I use 129gr Hornadys in my 6.5x06 and 140gr Hornadys in the 6.5x55. Now, velocity wise, my 6.5x06 is king again. I dearly love them both.

Well I guess you fellows must be right then, just amazing.

Seafire/Don Fischer:

What kind of velocity are you getting with these Swedes?

I have trouble imagining getting 3000fps with a 140gr bullet from a Swede. My buddy with his 6.5/06 gets that easy, and I easily get another 50 fps with my Gibbs.

I get over 3200 fps with the 120gr'ers.

Cheers,
Canuck

I can run mine at 2950, with a 140 grainer... and just leave it there.... I gather playing with the loads may produce a little more velocity, but another 50 to 100 fps isn't going to make or break anything special.. except maybe the brass....

If people aren't getting it, the secret is a long throat, and then seating the bullet way out there, just like the round originally was from Mauser....

Then you get to use ALL of your powder capacity, instead of like the 6.5/06 case, you have the bullet protuding into the powder room, so that it can fit the magazine length....so you really don't get all that much more powder in the 06, and I am sure that the bullet having more bearing surface in the 06 case over the 6.5 x 55 case( being seated deeper) sure offsets the little extra powder of the 06 case in favor of the round with the bullet seated way out there...

I reamed out a 22.250 chamber in a barrel with a one in 8 twist on a long action, where the 75 and 80 grain match bullets can be seated way out on the 22.250 case... it allowed more powder, no increase in pressure and more velocity...

I am no scientist, I just play around with loads and see what they yield...but I do notice patterns...long throats and bullets barely seated... do give you higher velocities with less pressures concerns...

well if you notice where I said I built a 260 Rem on long action and I throated the throat out further because SAAMI specs call for a very very short throat on the 260. So my 140's don't go past the neck/shoulder junction and I too can get that 2900 some fps out of my 260.

As I said earlier:

I get 3200 fps out of my 6.5-06 with 120's, and 3100fps+ with 140's.


Jerry

Well maybe I'm not wrong, Jerry is getting 3100 fps plus, and I bet he's not pushing it to the limit either. That's about 200 more then your 2950. Where the difference is, is flatness for longer distances.

Just in case it is an issue in the decision, 6.5-06 brass is available from midway. It is A-Square brass with proper headstamp. No need to fireform.

Fast Ed
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=217293

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Well everyone has an opinion, here's mine.
When speaking of the 6.5 designation if you are all about accuracy then the 6.5-284 is the king hands down and yes brass is available from several sources without having to re-size from something else (.284 Win). The 6.5x55 is probably second in the accuracy department but loses some horsepower when compared to the 6.5-284. The .260 is in all respects the ballistic twin of the 6.5x55 Swede but I'm not aware of benchrest records abounding with it. I'm not saying it is in-accurate just saying it is up against tough competition with the 6.5-284. The 6.5/06 is a dandy but slightly over powder capacity for the bore size, in other words you are wasting grains of powder to eek out more velocity and as far as I know it is a re-size propasition only when it comes to getting brass.
My first choice in your shoes would be the 6.5-284 and the 6.5x55 Swede as second, I already have a Swede and will have the 6.5-284 real soon or a wildcat 6.5 WSM shortly.
Good luck in your endeavors.

RE: 6.5x284 vs 6.5 Swede accuracy:

"This can be seen in the fact the 1999 British Long-Range Benchrest Championship was won by a Tikka Continental in 6.5x55. Group size was an almost unbelievable 10 rounds into 4.4 inches at 1,000 yards."

I cannot imagine a 6.5x284 being much more accurate, but there are NO flies on the Swede for accuracy, I have owned 4, and 2 260's and a custom 6.5/308 (built prior to Rem intro) and the 260 was more fickle with loads, it shot well, but sometimes there were frustrating fliers with no attributable cause, the Swede shot consistent period.

Nothing against the 284 version or '06 other than more powder, blast, recoil, and barrel life shortened to a point where it would not last long for me and need an expensive rebarrel.

I think the best balance is the Swede, then 260 in a short action, and the new 6.5x47 Lapua in a short action which should contend for the #1 spot in accuracy for a 6.5 round in a short round.

A 6.5 Grendel has a niche application, handy carbines and/or AR-15 type platforms. It performs very well for it's size and to me stomps the 6.8, but that is not the topic here.

Sure, barrel a long action in either '06 or 284 case (to get bullets seated out) for all out speed.....IF you are willing to sacrifice what you will in reduced barrel life, etc.

Let's see, give/take 40% of the 1000 yds distance (400 meters) x that 4.4 " 10 shot group= small groups at 400 with the 6.5x55, and enough power and trajectory for the hunting and practicing you may want, and you can practice more without burning that barrel. That is my choice/recommendation.

If you were trying to kill deer at 800 yds OR compete at 1000 yds, then I might say use the 284 or '06 case if not larger.

Seafire brings up a great point, chamber deep throat for more powder. That is how my 338/06 was chambered by Hart, for 250's though I shot 200-225's, it shot faster than what most believe that ctg will do.

I just wanted to give confidence to someone contemplating 6.5 Swede accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by MaxPayne:
Well maybe I'm not wrong, Jerry is getting 3100 fps plus, and I bet he's not pushing it to the limit either. That's about 200 more then your 2950. Where the difference is, is flatness for longer distances.

Well Max, if Jerry is getting 3100 fps out of an 06 case, then he has my compliments...I don't know ANY guys making that claim.. but being a handloader, I know things are possible that are not listed in the reloading manuals always...

But that being 150 fps faster than my 6.5 x 55 handloads... well a couple of clicks on the scope adjustment and all of the sudden our point blank range is equal again,....

The way I load, I get an accurate load, chronograph it lastly... out in the field I zero it 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, and then figure out what my max point blank range is...

from experience I can tell you that 150 fps MV difference, is going to give me about 15 to 20 yds more point blank range with a 140 grain bullet.... so I don't think that will set the world on fire....

I think that any 6.5 with a good 140 grain bullet makes an excellent cartridge capable of quite a lot....150 fps faster or slower than my loads.... we aren't talking all that difference in the real world in the field...I am not much of an arm chair ballistican when we speak of foot lbs etc...

I want something that works, the 6.5 x 55 works just fine... I will never build a 6.5/06 myself... but will never knock a guy who carrys one... and I have noticed.. if you carry a 6.5 bore or a 338/06 bore in the field, and meet another hunter carrying the same... well they tend to get pretty 'clan like' real fast....( and I don't mean Ku Klux Klan!)

Just some numbers I ran.

6.5x55 capacity=3.7cc

6.5-06 capacity= 4.2cc

ergo, the 6.5-06 can suport an initial 16% higher energy load.

140gr. bullet- The highest published velocity is 2800 fps. with 48 gr. of powder for the 6.5x55.

KE( transfered energy) = 1/2 mv^2 , = 2414ft.lbs.(6.5x55).

KE ( transfered energy) of the 6.5-06 would be 2800ft.lbs. which would yield a 3015 ft/sec. velocity.

The expected velocity difference would be about 215 fps. with all things such as throating, seating, and most efficient powder being equal.

Now if someone chooses to write a change notice to the laws of physics than that's a nite mare of a different fairy tail. roger

Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..