Well I remember a lot of you gave me a ration of crap about not knowing what I was doing in regards

to reloading for those 22 Hornets ,I and two shooting buddy's were loading for a couple of years back .

I wondered how many of you might have read Terry Wieland's article in Rifle Shooter

, on the subject titled A Reloader's Rocky Road in the July/August 2009 issue ?.


It Might interest you to see what's written !!!!!!!!.

Not my intent to give you another ration, but I have loaded for 8 hornets over the last 15 years, Browning, Ruger, TC Carbine, CZ, HR, and an old Savage.

All shot very well ( with the exception of the HR cause of its 27 lb trigger pull ) with less fuss than some other calibers I load for.

Sorry the Hornet did not work for you, but I think it is one great little round. Almost 3000 fps from 12 - 13 grains of Lil Gun and a 40 grain Sierra. About the most fun you can have with your pants on.

I'll give you a small sample of what he wrote .

After slugging the bore I fire formed new Winchester brass. The bore was tight .2225"

the chamber was very close to K Hornet specs . Using data from a conservative manual I started middle

of the road 2400 gave me a sticky lever same with IMR 4227 plus pierced primer . Hodgdon's lil'gun

blew a large rush of gas past my face with a resounding crack plastering my hand with soot .

The action refused to open .

Cautiously I returned to the range with some seriously reduced loads even from the mid range .

hodgdons gives range of 12.0 -13.2 Lil' Gun for a 45 grain .223 sierra bullet .

The low end blew out the breech plug and put the rife out of commission .

He contacted Hodgdon's .


Pick up a copy and read it for your self .A lever action wasn't the only

rifle he used either .

I would never own another rifle chambered in it period !.

My issues were accuracy which NEVER CAME ABOUT out of 3 separate rifles !.

If yours works I'm happy for you !.

Doc:

I have not read the article so I can't comment on its content. But over the years 45 or so, I have and do own several Hornets, and also a K on a Remington rolling block. The K shot less than an inch, and I didn't know its pedigree, I traded it off, and I wish I had not. As to the Hornet, now I shoot a 1941 Model 23 Savage, I collect Model 23's, never have had any problems with it, nor any other Hornet I have owned. It shoots 35 grain V-Max's and 13.5 grains of Lil Gun in to nice groups right at .75".

Whats all the fuss??

Jerry

Well, guess the hornet is not for everybody . . . I have also not read the article.

I have had no issues, used to use 4198 or 4227 pushing the 46gr Win HPs, but have switched to the 35gr v-max pushed by 13- of Lil Gun, great combination, great accuracy, lotta fun. Dunno, maybe the rifle(s) itself? I shoot hornet in 2xBlaser and an Anschutz, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

geez - i've had literally dozens of hornets & k hornets and never experienced anything like that. even with conversions on .222 barrels, even the old K chuck which was done up on S&W K22's never had anything like that

My hornet, an Anschutz 1431/32, has a rust damaged bore and a reamer scratched chamber which is a bit large. It took a bit of effort but the end result is an effective and accurate rifle with plenty of punch!

I have not read the article, but will.
I have three hornets, two Anschutzs, and an old Kimber of Oregon. All are sub one inch guns. I will own more of them.

I have not read the article, but it sounds like a gun problem.

It's difficult, if not impossible, to get enough Lilgun in a Hornet case to cause problems, especially with a 45gr bullet.

I believe many of you will find great interest in that article .

As I originally stated mine was an accuracy issue as were my two buddy's . I simply figured it was

" My Gun or Me " but when my long time shooting partner was unable to get it or his TC with #2 Barrels

to shoot with any consistency under 1.25" @ 100 m I began to feel something else was wrong .

Then when Dave was unable to make his shoot under 1.5" , after we had all used every known formula

with every combination powder primer and weight of bullet . I GAVE UP !.

The article dealt with Loading problems more than inaccuracy concerns .

Please remember I look for a gun that with proper ammunition that will print SMOA with bare minimum

of #5 rounds and generally don't even consider it a accurate weapon unless , it will do # 15 counted

three groups of #5 SMOA . So maybe I'm pickier than some of you or maybe you got good ones and we

got lemons ! ?. I know I personally am done with that caliber period !.

With a few different makes of .17 .222 .223 .22/250 I won't miss it believe me .

Go figure this one ; I have one AR Bushmaster that will put #15 55 grain bulk bullets

inside a dime at 100 M and it likes 62-69 grain the best of any of them .

Now that's just unheard of with a Stock trigger which must be 10 lb. if it's an ounce !.

I'm serious when I tell you I'm afraid to change ANYTHING on it until it starts losing accuracy !.

What rifles did you have problems with?

Mine was a Winchester bolt gun I'm not positive of the model # as it was mid 60's vintage maybe a 43 ?.

I wasn't impressed so I no longer own it and when it refused to group It didn't matter too me .

Others were a TC single shot and B boy had 2 barrels 20 some inches and another shorter 14 16 ?

I don't own any TC products !.So I'm not sure of particulars although I have shot several

of my friends calibers from his TC's and for the most part they seem to be solid rifles !.

With the exception of that chambering ?.

A Ruger model 77 that was Dave's and I only shot 20-30 rounds out of it with my loads and a few of B Boys

loads NONE would print under 1.25" consistently at 100M EVER !.

Between Myself and B Boy you're talking 90+ years of reloading experience !.

B Boy is ANAL RETENTIVE about Log book reloading records !. I can verify any load from any of his

100's yes 100's of Rifles back too 1967 . Powder OAL temp. distance bullet primer grouping .

He's never used a computer in his life keeps all hand records as well as Targets to verify log books !!!.

I'll NEVER EVER post his name or even give a clue as to where he may reside, because if the fire dept.

ever had any idea as to the paper he has stored ;let alone anything else He would be gone in a heartbeat !.

For a friend there isn't a thing I wouldn't do nor he borrow anything he owns help you with ANYTHING !.

Never hunted a day in his life which spans better than 7 decades now but has cast shot loaded owned

still owns more firearms than any 10 people combined that I know . PAPER PUNCHING FANATIC

and a Hell of a FISHERMAN and my VERY GOOD FRIEND !.

He loves Old Military weapons and makes them shoot in most cases better than new without re barreling

!. Load development is what he lives for .

Doc:

My buddy has a Model 43 Winchester in 22 Hornet, and he has experienced the same thing as you, WITH RELOADS!! Now if you switch to factory Winchester ammo, it shoots under an inch, right with my Model 23 D. I don't believe it is the rifle, as I own a Model 43 in 218 Bee, and it shoots under.5 (sometimes)@100 if I do my part, and its not to windy.

Jerry

Well Jerry I will say two things more on this subject then that's it .

The Hornets we shot fared better with blunt nose bullets ?. However I no longer own that caliber

and NEVER WILL AGAIN !.

I didn't read the article and have no desire to. I base my conclusions on experience and not what appears in print somewhere.

With that being said, I have never, ever had any problems with Hornets in any shape, form or fashion.

But I always kept things simple and enjoyed terrific accuracy and case life. Then again, I knew to be careful with the delicate little case as excessive sizing will take its toll. And in the TCs, I knew how to measure and handle headspace issues -- and a 10" Contender barrel made for some terrific in-the-field adventures and quite a few dead varmints.

I never tried to turn it into a .222 or .223, either.

Back then, H-110 was THE powder for the Hornet. It should still rank among the best today.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the .22 Hornet. Thousands of shooters/hunters have enjoyed it for many decades.

I currently have three 22 Hornet rifles, and all shoot very well.
Loads for each rifle differ, but they all shoot well.
As mentioned above, I tried stuffing as much Lil-Gun in the Hornet case as I could get in, and never experience a pressure problem. But, 13.0 grains of it with Sierra's 45 grain Hornet bullets shoots about as well as I could hope for. My last 3 shot group with a Ruger 77/Hornet measured 1/4" at 50 yards, using the Lil-Gun load.
I also have a Browning Huntsman Hornet and a Winchester Model 54 Hornet.
Have never had good luck with pointy bullets in any Hornet. Only the 45 grain Sierra Hornet bullets shoot well, for me anyway.

Two things, guys:

The article excerpt says the bore was very tight, at .2225". That is a huge flag! Even if he was shooting .223 bullets out of it, pressures were going to go through the roof very quickly. The writer should have known that...

I have an NEF K Hornet, and I would pay handsomely for another jug or two of the old Accurate Arms Data 2200 powder. A flat ten grains of that powder, a small pistol primer and a Winchester 55-grain soft point shoot into one hole at 100 as long as you want to shoot them, assuming you do your part. Also, half a grain of AA #2, an unsized Lyman 225107 coated in alox and a cotton plug to keep powder on the primer is a subsonic one hole load at 25 yards.

I love my K!

Cartridges come and go, and the Hornet is what, 80 or 90 years old?

Both guns and ammo can be finicky at times, but if it was THAT finicky it would have been history long ago.

quote:

The article excerpt says the bore was very tight, at .2225". That is a huge flag!

I wouldn't call that 'very tight'. That's just a normal .224 groove diam hornet. If it was the older .223 groove diameter hornet it would have a tighter bore of .217. Even that will shoot .224 bullets just fine.

I have heard of hornets having sloppy and oversize chambers which includes misaligned chambers. Not sure why a T/C barrel would have those problems.

The Hornet is approaching its century mark and has millions of happy and satisfied followers.

With that in mind, if I was having beau coup problems loading for it I would have to look at the firearm or to my reloading bench for answers.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
Mine was a Winchester bolt gun I'm not positive of the model # as it was mid 60's vintage maybe a 43 ?.

I wasn't impressed so I no longer own it and when it refused to group It didn't matter too me . ... Others were a TC single shot ...However I no longer own that caliber

and NEVER WILL AGAIN !.

Hey Doc, Looks like you are fighting an Up-Hill battle without much secondary support.

The above portions of your posts look as if " I " would have written them. Only difference is I had more than one M43 - none of which maintained a consistent accuracy.

And for Bobby, that is 35 years of wrestling with them - first-hand experience. I agree that experience carrys a lot of influence. However..., all of my first-hand experience was prior to Lil`Gun and prior to 22cal Bullets smaller than the old 0.223" and 0.224" 45gr Hornet Bullets. So, my experience is handicapped without those crutial components which seem to work well for everyone that tries them.

Glad to hear folks are enjoying their 22Hornets and wish you all the best, with the most consistent small accuracy possible. You do not have to concern yourself about me hoarding 22Hornet rifles, dies, nor components.

Hot Core ; I lost that Hornet battle and coincided defeat years back !.

I took an original M1 Garand no reworking other than chemically cleaning the bore , prior to cleaning

it shot 4-5" at 100 m . With just load development now shoots two loads all day long under 1" .

Another one which was spitting 3-3.5" groups will now print .875-.675 all day long .

I did polish the bores and recrown one of them . It also took an average of 25 rounds to foul the

bores so they would shoot properly again . Corrosive ammo left moderate too severe pitting in them .

I reviewed some of our records pertaining too the Hornet and the best grouping we achieved was using

4198 & H 110 powders . The worst by far was Lil Gun .

As anyone who has ever loaded for that cartridge knows ,there really isn't squat for room up or down

or start too maximum loading for it !.

Shooting the .22 Hornet can be addictive. I started out with a Savage 40 years ago, and have not been without a Hornet ever since. My current Hornets are a Anschutz 1733 and a Contender. I went thru the .223 and .224 bullet issues 30 years ago and decided that the .223 40 grain Sierra Hornet bullet worked best for me. Since then I've tried other brands of .224s and gone back to the .223, even in a new Anschutz. IMR-4227, and 4198 always seem to work, and those tiny powder charges make a can of powder last a long while.
LLS

quote:

Shooting the .22 Hornet can be addictive.

Now that's the truth! It is a fascinating little cartridge! I have never tried the 40gr 223 hornet bullet in mine. Mmmmm.....

Hornet rifles that I've had experience with:

Savage 23D
Winchester 43
Ruger #1
Ruger #1 (K-Hornet)
Ruger 77-22 Hornet

All shot well with the exception of the 77-22. It was the worst factory rifle I have ever owned!

I read Weiand's article, I think he's got a rifle problem and hasn't figured it out yet.

I traded my Mini-14 223 for my hornet. Never regretted it. But then it is an Anschutz 1431/32. Now that little beauty is so sweet to shoot with. I just happened to have a look at my Speer No 10 Reloaders Manual and saw that they used a 1432 for their load data!

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Two things, guys:

The article excerpt says the bore was very tight, at .2225". That is a huge flag! Even if he was shooting .223 bullets out of it, pressures were going to go through the roof very quickly.

Not necessarily. I've used .224's in older .223 Hornets and had no indication of high pressure. And Doubless, you would pay dearly for 2200 if you can find some. I saw a full jug at the gunshow in Grant's Pass this weekend, $160. I've still got a full 8 pounder left, think I paid $60 for it back in the day.

But craigster, .2225" bore is not tight! That's just a normal .224 barrel. And my 1431/32 is an older hornet with a 223 groove barrel (.217 bore) and I shoot .224 bullets with no pressure problems at all.

Hi there! I bought a CZ527 American in .22hornet about a year ago. The only (factory-loaded-)ammo I could get hold of were poor quality. But when starting to reload with quality components things turned out for the better!
I have heard many a "horror-story" about how difficult the little 22h. was to reload:, crushed case-necks, stretching and cracking cases and so on. But I have not encountered any problems.
Decided to size the cases as little as possible, using a Forster FL die set I set the sizing die so high that the die only touches the shoulder, and sizes only about 5mm/,02" of the neck. So far (3-times reloaded) no headspace-problems and virtually no stretching.
Brass is Winchester, excellent quality I think. Weight is similar to most europeans. Later, since the Win 22h. cases were sold out everywhere I bought some Remington cases, these were 10% lighter than Winchester. Fortunately I got the nickel-plated ones so they can easily be held apart.
American powder is hard to find in these parts so I tried the Vith. N110. Primers CCI small pistol.
Powder charge below 8grains: dirty cases and low speed. With approx. 9,3gr, cases fill well up and velocity is 2600-2650fps with various 45gr bullets.
Tried a little different 45gr bullets (and Win HP 46gr), hard to pick one as several gives excellent accuracy (>25mm/100meter). The classic hornet bullets from Sierra and Hornady are great. (Both in .223 and .224, cannot tell the difference.) But maybe I will stick with the Sierra 45 spitzer(#1310). Perhaps the most accurate in my rifle, and BC. is relatively good, (less wind-drift.) Long and sleek bullet, but I modified one of the mags to accept longer OAL. However it does not expand as easily, at longer ranges in hornet speed it may not expand at all. Mostly going to use it for hunting grouse in winter-time and don't want a "too-brutal" expanding bullet, so the tougher 45spitz. might be perfect?
Anyways I am very happy with the little hornet! Great fun shooting the little rascal. Mounted a little silencer so that earplugs are needed, recoil= what recoil?

quote:

Great fun shooting the little rascal. Mounted a little silencer so that earplugs are needed, recoil= what recoil?

Me too! Great little cartridge and rifle. You might want to lube your loaded rounds to prevent case stretch. I have reloaded my cases so many times I long since lost count! (I'm loading 55gr Hornady's to about 2700fps with Lil'Gun. I have also used 60gr Hornady's - those need enough velocity I think).

quote:

Originally posted by df06:
I have not read the article, but will.
I have three hornets, two Anschutzs, and an old Kimber of Oregon. All are sub one inch guns. I will own more of them.

I receive excellent accuracy, in my Kimber Of Oregon Hornet; using powders: WW-296, H-110, and the no longer available WW-680. Also use SR-4759 for light Small Game loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Doc:

My buddy has a Model 43 Winchester in 22 Hornet, and he has experienced the same thing as you, WITH RELOADS!! Now if you switch to factory Winchester ammo, it shoots under an inch, right with my Model 23 D. I don't believe it is the rifle, as I own a Model 43 in 218 Bee, and it shoots under.5 (sometimes)@100 if I do my part, and its not to windy.

Jerry

Wish I could find a Winchester M-43 in .22 Hornet. I've owned ALL the calibers it was chambered for: .25-20, .32-20, .218 Bee, BUT NO HORNET

That old WW-680 always gave me the best accuracy. AA-1680 never measured up like it was touted.

Using H-110 and Lil Gun now.

quote:

Originally posted by crowrifle:
That old WW-680 always gave me the best accuracy. AA-1680 never measured up like it was touted.

Using H-110 and Lil Gun now.

Same here! I have about 1/2 can of WW-680 left, and when that runs out I guess I'll try Lit-gun or just TRY to find some WW-296.

Doc:

I have been away for a few days, so I haven't had a chance to get back to you!! That said, in my Hornet I use the 35 grain V-max, which is not as,you put it a "blunt bullet". I'll give you this though, you got a good thread going, and I know what it is to "hate" a cartridge. I know I must hate one very much, but I can't think what it is. Oh yeah, it's the 338-06, what a pos.

LOL

Jerry

I think every once in a while the "We hate Hornets guys" get bored and say,"hey fella's, I got a idea! Lets fire up the We love Hornets guys by running down that little round they love so much!!!" Heh-Heh-Heh-Heh .
No matter, I still love em and while all of mine have been late model Anschutz, CZ and Cooper offerings I've yet to have a clunker! Knock wood!
As to gun writers I live in a town that has three of the major main-stream contributors living here. I've come to one unmovable conclusion. They wake up every morning and pull their pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else on this site. Some of em shoot a lot and write stuff that makes sense to me and some of em have a deadline to meet and just crank out an article that's all fluff . I agree with some of their stuff and some doesn't fit with my experiences at all and I shoot a lot too.
Gun writers are just guys that are smart enough to figure out how to make a living off of their hobby, good on em . Just cause it's written in a magazine don't make it so!!!
All that said, today I am going to resist the urge to defend the venerable old Hornet and K-Hornet and say to those that don't like it..."OK, have a nice day ".
Today I ain't taking the bait .

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
... today I am going to resist the urge to defend the venerable old Hornet and K-Hornet and say to those that don't like it..."OK, have a nice day ".
Today I ain't taking the bait .

Either way, it's a fascinating little cartridge!

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
Either way, it's a fascinating little cartridge!

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
I think every once in a while the "We hate Hornets guys" get bored and say,"hey fella's, I got a idea! Lets fire up the We love Hornets guys by running down that little round they love so much!!!" Heh-Heh-Heh-Heh .

Hey MontDoug, Now of all people, you should know that "Spinning-Up" a Hornet user is no real challenge. Doesn't even take an iota of serious thinking to come up with a burr to stick under their sitter and get them romping, stomping and in their Full Defense Mode. Heck, they are "almost" as thin skinned as those 17cal lovers.

quote:

No matter, I still love em ...

I had that impression. It is good to hear someone keeps working with them.

quote:

As to gun writers ...I agree with some of their stuff and some doesn't fit with my experiences at all ...Gun writers are just guys that are smart enough to figure out how to make a living off of their hobby, good on em . Just cause it's written in a magazine don't make it so!!!

Completely agree, especially since so much of it is Full of Beans.

quote:

All that said, today I am going to resist the urge to defend the venerable old Hornet and K-Hornet and say to those that don't like it..."OK, have a nice day ".
Today I ain't taking the bait .

Right back to you - have a great day Blasting Varmints, even if those weenie Bullets bounce off.

Hot Core ole bud there are about a gazillion p-dogs, gophers, rock chucks and badgers out here that if they were still with us would wish real hard that Hornets, K-Hornets and .17 calibers in general were as inaccurate as some guys say they are .
A couple a weeks ago a real nice fella I met off this site was passing through this area with his lovely wife. My wife and I were fortunate enough to get to spend some time with them and one of the things we did were he and I sneaking off for a day of rat smacking. I believe he'd attest to the fact that combining what to some guys is the "worst" of both worlds (the .17 caliber and the K-Hornet as in a .17 Ackley Hornet) creates a round that dumps rock chucks like a safe fell on em.

"QUOTE"
Hey MontDoug, Now of all people, you should know that "Spinning-Up" a Hornet user is no real challenge. Doesn't even take an iota of serious thinking to come up with a burr to stick under their sitter and get them romping, stomping and in their Full Defense Mode. Big Grin Heck, they are "almost" as thin skinned as those 17cal lovers. clap
"QUOTE"
Hot Core I oughta figure a way to fight back and run down somebody else's "FANTASTIC, WONDERFUL, AMAZING," favorite rounds . Unfortunately for me however I'm an equal opportunity gun lover, I love em all!!