Hi Guys,I been watching this forum for a while now and finially have a question to ask those of you who own a rifle chambered in the Bob. I have one myself based on an old Mauser98 action (photos attached), however I am considering the purchase of a factory rifle in 257Roberts. I am just wondering if anyone can tell me if the Kimber and new Ruger rifles are based on short, standard or mid length actions??
Cheers.

Not sure on the Kimber, but the Ruger is on the full length '06 action. Two of the MKIIs in the house and both have been very accurate and reliable. Only difference on the Hawkeye is trigger, a more slender stock, and matte finish.

Thanks for that, much appreciated

Just checked Kimber's website and it's an 84, which is their short action. The Ruger, as stated above is a standard action. I've a Ruger M77 MkII and love it. Had Roger Ferrell work the trigger and bed it back in the spring and she's really slick now. But I'd like to take a look at the Kimber Montana.

David

Wildman..I went the opposite direction...I had a Ruger M77 in 257Rbts...it was a long action. Then I built another Rbts on a m98 action...it shot better than my Ruger so the Ruger found a new home!! Still have and use that 257 Rbts. Mauser though!!

Z

Hey Zee, Thanks, as you may have noticed there is a thread running on this back home, I just wanted to clear it up once and for all. The poor old 257 is not popular over here but Im doing my best to make it so!

Know what you mean with the Mausers... Would like to get my hands on one of those Kimbers!

Thanks again guys for the info.

I'm toying with the idea of chambering a LE Mk.4 in 257 Roberts. I'd prefer a rimmed case - maybe make them from 7x57R if I could get some. It seems like an ideal caliber for my part of the world - goats and deer and long range peafowl and magpies.

Just because Seafire likes it when I post this...



My Remington M7MS in .257 Roberts. Shoots sub 3/4" with four different loads, with 100 & 117gr SGK's dropping into a 1/2" group. Truly an amazing rifle. I just loved the look of the Mannlicher stock - and that hasn't changed.

Yes, it's a short action. IMO, yes, you can pick up a bit of velocity in a long action, but does it make for any more killing power? IMO, I'd be better off going AI when the time comes as opposed to Long Action. Still, there's no wrong way to do it.

The Bob is a great round.

rnovi, are you loading to SAAMI pressures or to 'modern' pressures? I ask because the No.4 action can only take the original SAAMI pressure for the Roberts - which is why it is a consideration for me - I would be able to use factory ammo.

P.S. That's a beauty!

rnovi
SWEET

303 guy...

A Mr. Epps of Canada did a .25 on the .303 case which is so close to the .30/40 Krag US case... Both factory shoulder and "improved..."

You can reach the Epps gun shop thru .303british.com by a link. No idea if they have a correspondent down under but here, anyway, .303 brass is alot more common than 7x57R... luck.

rnovi,
I like it when you post the pics of that rifle also.

SD

Nice rifle rnovi.

IIRC, Remington used a long action on the 700 Classic in 257, but the 722, 700 ADL, and 700 Mountain Rifles were all short actions. All of the factory built Ruger 257s that I've seen have been built on long actions. I have 4 of them; a tang safety 77R in 257AI, a 77 RL Mk2, a 77 RL Mk2 that has been reworked into a 77 RSI configuration, and a 77V employee special. My favorite factory built 257 Roberts is the Remington 700 Mountain Rifle, as it seems like a nearly perfect vehicle for a 257 hunting rifle.

Jeff

Wildman

Most "modern" actions are either a bit short or a bit long for the x57 cases, 257 being no exception.

Funnily enough the Mauser action (wonderful old thing that it is) is "just right" for x57 case lenght rounds.

Here in NZ we are very lucky that one of the most sought after Mauser actions - the Czech small ring is readily and inxepensively avaliable - the VZ-33. Both this action and its cousin (the G33-40) are of beautiful pre/early wartime construction, seldom need heat treatment, and are light - mainly cause the small barrel shank enables a trim rifle to be built.

I've just about finished my VZ-33 in 257 Roberts, and with scope mounts it weights a scant 3.1 Kgs - all blued steel and walnut. Geoff Slee has a great "Rigby styled" classic stock pattern for a small ring (just watch if you use a VZ-33, his inlet is too long for the VZ-33 bottom metal which doesn't use locking screws).

When I get my rifle blued in a few weeks I'll post some photos.

Cheers - Foster

PS 303Guy - I have my No4 303/25 going, it seems to shoot well (early days yet) and is a honey to carry - Slee also has a Classic stock pattern for the No 3 that is adaptable to a No 4.

Thank you all for the kind comments folks! It really is the pride and joy of my safe.

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
rnovi, are you loading to SAAMI pressures or to 'modern' pressures? I ask because the No.4 action can only take the original SAAMI pressure for the Roberts - which is why it is a consideration for me - I would be able to use factory ammo.

P.S. That's a beauty!

303Guy - yes, I am loading to "modern" pressures. Both loads are published max loads - can't remember which manual, Hodgdon I think. I pulled the loads from "Loadbooks USA" and show zero pressure signs. I haven't chrono'ed the 47gr. H4350 - 100gr. SGK loads, but the 44 gr. H4350 - 117SGK load clocks an honest 2750fps in a 20" bbl. It's a guess, but I'm thinking right on 3000fps with the 100gr. load.

I don't think I'd recommend that load for an older Mauser action.

Back to my original comment on the .257 Bob in short vs. long actions. I should have noted that I am using a modern action. From what I've seen, about the only way I've found to get a Modern Mid-Size action is from Montana Arms. I think they have a mid-size action that appears to be ideal for the Mauser cartridge.

So, let's see some more pics your .257's guys!

Here's my Montana Rifle .257 Roberts. It has the mid-size magazine length of about 3". I had the action worked over by Serengeti and I had the bolt jeweled and knurled by Dennis Olsen.

It's got a McGowen Precision 23" barrel with a #2 contour, a McMillan Edge stock, Talley mounts, and a Leupold 3.5x10 scope. It weighs 8lbs 4oz and balances well for my taste. I found it likes the 110gr Accubond bullets best.

quote:

.303 brass is alot more common than 7x57R...

This is true here also but .... I am still using my Sako 303 cases from 25 years back, so .... a good supply of x57 Rimmed cases should last me the rest of my life! And then I could still use x57 brass but suffer ejection problems - since I reload, that would not be a problem anyway as I catch the cases still in the reciever.

I have never heard any downside of the 257 Roberts - that must be a good sign!
Niether have I heard any downside of the Montana action - sure looks good!

wildman, I have no doubt the 257 is as superb goat cartridge. How does it perform on red deer and pig? (I somehow imagine a pig needs a heavier bullet with more penetration but then I have only shot two pigs in my life - both African bushpigs. One with a 223 and the other with a heavy bulleted 303. I prefered the 303 DRT effect).

Pig? It's all about bullet placement given the size of the pig. Hit 'em behind the ear and it's lights out. Here's a 250# piggie I hit with a 117 SST. The bullet did not exit. And, IMO, I wouldn't use an SST on pig again. Just plain too explosive.



The 110 AB's or a 120 Partition or a 100+ Barnes would be about perfect for Pig. Still, I'd try to place my shot behind the ear...Pigs is tough - I shot a 60# piglett through both shoulders with a .308 last year...it still plowed forward for 40 yards on just the power of it's hind quarters. Both front shoulders were destroyed, lungs and heart gone. I shudder to think about how that 250# pig might have reacted if I hit him anywhere but where I did.

As to red deer, not sure. Some people use the .257 with 1117/120's on Elk. General consensus is that it's a tad light for Elk, but doable within reasonable ranges and a proper shot placement.

quote:

Originally posted by duckboat:

It's got a McGowen Precision 23" barrel with a #2 contour, a McMillan Edge stock, Talley mounts, and a Leupold 3.5x10 scope. It weighs 8lbs 4oz and balances well for my taste. I found it likes the 110gr Accubond bullets best.

I've seriously toyed with having a 7x57 built like that, only blued with wood. Very nice rig! Very nice!

quote:

.... I shot a 60# piglett through both shoulders with a .308 last year...it still plowed forward for 40 yards on just the power of it's hind quarters. Both front shoulders were destroyed, lungs and heart gone. ...

HOLY ... ummm ... COW!
Now that you mention it, I was witness to a bushpig being shot in the butt with a shotgun. Smashed both rear leg bones and it ran off about 40 paces!
I've only shot one red deer and witnessed two other. They are tough too!

I have 2 Roberts. Both on long actions.
One is a 77RL, I recomend it highly, but I had to dive myself half crazy till I finaly made a shooter out of it.
The other is a custom springfield. Great rifle and really prety.
I have a mexicam mauser action sitting here, but I think its sold. But it would make a great .257 Roberts.
I also have a FN side safty in The Roberts AI. So as you might guess. I rather like the round.
I would like to find a remington 722 so chamberd. Or If i should find myself in the financial position, to get another made by mel forbes at NULA.
...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by wildman:
Hi Guys,I been watching this forum for a while now and finially have a question to ask those of you who own a rifle chambered in the Bob. I have one myself based on an old Mauser98 action (photos attached), however I am considering the purchase of a factory rifle in 257Roberts. I am just wondering if anyone can tell me if the Kimber and new Ruger rifles are based on short, standard or mid length actions??
Cheers.

Wildman,

The new Kimber in .257 Roberts is on their small short action, the 84M. This action is smaller in size and weight than just about any action that will handle the Roberts. A complete Kimber 84M Montana goes just over five pounds and I have two of them (in 243 and 308).

With a scope on the rifle its a superb handling piece. Sure I have heavier rifles for just plain varminting, big bore and target but for an all around rifle the Kimber 84M Montana may have an edge on anything in todays market for those wanting a neat, light rifle.

Another thread on the Roberts in a Kimber.

I swear you guys are moding your posts after I read them!

Nice Pig rnovi!!

Im not sure how anything goes on pigs mr 303, I guess like you I hardly ever see them while out deer hunting. That red hind is the biggest thing Ive shot with it, however I shot that from only abot 10m away when I woke up from sleeping under a tree in the bush to find her feeding head down right in front of me! Safe to say the 117gr SST exited through both shoulders... That bigish Billy there was shot at about 100m, lung shot, no worries! Again with the 117gr SST. I am hoping to shoot a red stag with it and some Tahr but might have to get some Barnes or those Accubonds for those larger animals. The 243 has a big following over here and has been used for all of the above but Ive always thought, what the 243 can do, the 257 can do better

Again nice rifle duckboat, if only we had more tidy choices in NZ

Cheers for the link Savage_99, Im just a little worried about the accuracy issues that seem to follow the Kimber wherever its goes...

I shot the .257 in a Rem 722 in my youth and killed deer and elk with it..Loved that little rifle..Used the 117 gr. RN corelokt and the 100 gr. Silvertip...

Shot the 250 Savage a lot more, and shot a lot more game with it..elk and deer..My dad shot over 50 elk with the 250-3000 and the 100 gr. silvertip or whatever he had...never lost one..

Today I have a Savage 99F in 250-3000 and a Ruger 77 FWT in 250 Savage..I love the 250 and the 257..

They leave the .243 sucking hind tit in the big game dept IMO and I used the .243 a lot when it first came out..I know what the balistic charts say but I am totally convienced the 250 and the 257 are hands down a better big game round...

Thanks wildman. It's good to hear personal experiences of hunters. Now that I have found out the choices in 257 bullets, the 257 is getting my attention! It's more logical for me. a) It's based on the 7x57 case - my favourite. b) It's a bigger case and can handle a heavier bullet and factory loads are within a No.4's capabilities. c) It LOOKS good!

My mind is about made up. Now to locate a barrel to fit to my No.4. I'll be doing the threading and fitting my self. I don't mind reworking the magazine since 303's have cr*p magazines anyway! (I have this idea of using the magazine for a spent case receptical and feeding the rounds single shot. I shoot like this at the range - I hold my finger over the ejection port with magazine out and the cases just drop down through the magazine port).

Have a look at Hodgdon's data;

quote:

75 GR. HDY HP Hodgdon Varget .257" 2.795" 37.0 3155 34,700 CUP 41.0 3453 43,700 CUP
90 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon Varget .257" 2.775" 36.0 2990 36,300 CUP 40.0 3269 44,900 CUP
100 GR. SPR SPBT Hodgdon Varget .257" 2.770" 34.0 2724 34,400 CUP 38.0 2981 44,900 CUP
115 GR. NOS PART Hodgdon Varget .257" 2.780" 31.0 2462 34,300 CUP 35.0 2701 44,900 CUP
120 GR. SIE HPBT IMR IMR 4831 .257" 2.775" 44.0 2810 45,000 CUP

As you know, Varget is our AR2208. I wonder whether ADI have an equivalent for IMR 4831?

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
Thanks wildman. It's good to hear personal experiences of hunters. Now that I have found out the choices in 257 bullets, the 257 is getting my attention! It's more logical for me. a) It's based on the 7x57 case - my favourite. b) It's a bigger case and can handle a heavier bullet and factory loads are within a No.4's capabilities. c) It LOOKS good!

My mind is about made up. Now to locate a barrel to fit to my No.4. I'll be doing the threading and fitting my self. I don't mind reworking the magazine since 303's have cr*p magazines anyway! (I have this idea of using the magazine for a spent case receptical and feeding the rounds single shot. I shoot like this at the range - I hold my finger over the ejection port with magazine out and the cases just drop down through the magazine port).

Have a look at Hodgdon's data;

quote:

75 GR. HDY HP Hodgdon Varget .257" 2.795" 37.0 3155 34,700 CUP 41.0 3453 43,700 CUP
90 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon Varget .257" 2.775" 36.0 2990 36,300 CUP 40.0 3269 44,900 CUP
100 GR. SPR SPBT Hodgdon Varget .257" 2.770" 34.0 2724 34,400 CUP 38.0 2981 44,900 CUP
115 GR. NOS PART Hodgdon Varget .257" 2.780" 31.0 2462 34,300 CUP 35.0 2701 44,900 CUP
120 GR. SIE HPBT IMR IMR 4831 .257" 2.775" 44.0 2810 45,000 CUP

As you know, Varget is our AR2208. I wonder whether ADI have an equivalent for IMR 4831?

I belive H4831 is AR2213sc however IMR 4381 is a little faster from what I gather...

I have only used AR2209 which is about the same as IMR/H 4350. With the 117 SST was was getting ~2800fps from 43grains of the stuff; 22in barrel. I looked up the 7th ed. of Nick Harveys mannual he he suggests 50 grains of the stuff for a 100grain bullet!!! Now that load is 5grains OVER what the ADI mannual suggests!! Needless to say caution is required... He does get 3330fps though... Pretty close to a 25/06!


The No4. sounds fun, Ive been trying to find a smith to do a 45/70 conversion for a while now with no luck

quote:

The No4. sounds fun, Ive been trying to find a smith to do a 45/70 conversion for a while now with no luck

The 45/70 has got to be the most logical choise! The original Lee rifle was developed for it! I want to persuade a friend to do just that! I cannot think of a better bush/pig gun! Someone chambered a LE in 45/90! Said it kicked a little! I'll see if I can find the link.

quote:

Now that load is 5grains OVER what the ADI mannual suggests!!

Those would be 'modern' pressure loads. Not for the No4.

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

The No4. sounds fun, Ive been trying to find a smith to do a 45/70 conversion for a while now with no luck

The 45/70 has got to be the most logical choise! The original Lee rifle was developed for it! I want to persuade a friend to do just that! I cannot think of a better bush/pig gun! Someone chambered a LE in 45/90! Said it kicked a little! I'll see if I can find the link.

quote:

Now that load is 5grains OVER what the ADI mannual suggests!!

Those would be 'modern' pressure loads. Not for the No4.

45/90 eh, well that just sounds fun!! Im still looking for a population of wild cattle in the south island!

Still the lower pressure loads in the 257 are good enough for most things in NZ

My Ruger Mark II .257 Roberts, shooting 100 grn Sierra Game King with 49.5 grn H-4831SC is absolutely deadly on Pigs, Deer, Coyotes and Turkeys. A lot less recoil than my other guns (.270, 7MM Mag, 7 MM STW). After I get tired of being beat up from the big boys, it is a pleasure to shoot the Bob. My loads are warm so work up to them , I plan on reducing the load so my daughter will start shooting it as well.

I realize the 257 is better with a long throat and a long magazine as it will give the 25-06 a run for the money...but what's the point? if you want more power then buy a 25-06 or a 257 wby..the beauty of the 257 Robts and the 250 Savage lies in a light slim rifle that doesn't recoil but still has enough sting to get the job done...

quote:

I am just wondering if anyone can tell me if the Kimber and new Ruger rifles are based on short, standard or mid length actions??

I think the first few posts answered your questions.....

For that matter I'd not be afraid of buying a used "Bob".....Mine is a terrific rifle and in the Winchester long action.....it's a real killer of deer and pronghorns.....

I'm sure it'll do fine on larger stuff as well.

Here it is wearing an antique Weaver (ElPaso) K-6 scope

Vapogog, nice pics, I'd almost forgotten that my first 257Robts was a Featherweight just like that one. I'd shortened up the block in the Mag so I could seat bullets out to 3", had it long throated as well (Sorry Ray ). It went to someone whose son couldn't live without it & I had my BSA medium action with its shot out 7x57 barrel rebarreled to 257 Robts as well. The 3" long mag box was ideal for what I wanted & I had it throated likewise. Its my go get rifle in just about every instance now cause I know it will do the job. A full charge of Norma MRP with 120 grain Speers or Nosler solid bases ( I've got about 3 generations supply of them ) gets about 2920 fps & cuts the mustard just about anywhere I go around here.
Steve

Vapo,

That is a very good looking rifle!!
Great lines...
And that scope is JUST perfect for that particular rifle.

Don

It has accounted for two wall hangers.....a 5X5 mule deer and a 5X5 whitetail.....both 1-shot kills (neither animal went more than 15 yards) and interestingly enough both with 100 grain interlocks.




I used a .25-06 for deer for many years.....and even a .257 Weatherby.......today the .257Roberts is the one that gets used.....

It has accounted for a few prairie dogs as well.

I had a "Bob" in a Browning A-Bolt short action but the long action IMO is the right home for the old cartridge......a M-98 is an ideal house for one.

Have always been an admirer of the 257 so I had the second rifle I have ever commissioned built as a 257. It's a Mdl 70 classic extensively customized and shoots 3/8" groups all day.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I realize the 257 is better with a long throat and a long magazine as it will give the 25-06 a run for the money...but what's the point? if you want more power then buy a 25-06 or a 257 wby..the beauty of the 257 Robts and the 250 Savage lies in a light slim rifle that doesn't recoil but still has enough sting to get the job done...

Ray, it's just a case of optimizing the cartridge's design rather than restricting the performance with short magazines and shallow throating.The "***light slim rifle that doesn't recoil***" will still be had. roger

If "the beauty of the 257 Robts and the 250 Savage lies in a light slim rifle that doesn't recoil but still has enough sting to get the job done", wouldn't that be a strong argument in favor of the 25 WSSM?

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:
If "the beauty of the 257 Robts and the 250 Savage lies in a light slim rifle that doesn't recoil but still has enough sting to get the job done", wouldn't that be a strong argument in favor of the 25 WSSM?

Jeff

No. Sorry. I just couldn't help myself. call it a senior moment.
Paul B.

Paul: Could you be so kind as to stop laughing long enough to explain why? thanks