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Steve, what powder are you using for such speeds? An ADI powder? | |||
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I reckon you missed that bit.  I don't want to list the load here because its higher than I've ever seen published but the older (green & white packet) Remington cases digest it quite happily. They weigh lighter than the newer cases I have & I'll shortly need to work a load up for these which I feel sure will go short of this one by a 1/2 or 1 grain. In truth I might be tempted to settle for about 2850fps for the sake of accuracy if thats what it takes as I think the difference ballistically is negligible. AR2213 or H4831SC as it is, should also give similar results. With the extra chamber length & bullet seated out to 3" COAL, I'm able to load very little short of 257 Robts Improved loads at what I feel to be safe pressures. No measureable head expansion, tight primer pockets & no primer flattening to speak of. Steve | |||
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I strongly recomend H-414 in the Roberts woith 100 grain bullets. With heavier stuff I like the 4350s. I want to try the new RL-17 one day too...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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Ummm .... that's AR2213SC or H4831. According to my loading tables, AR2213SC is the top performer for heavier bullets and AR2208 is tops for lighter bullets. The Hodgedon tables gives H4895 (AR2206H) as tops for lighter bullets BUT at higher pressure! So we seem pretty well covered in our part of the world. (ADI makes a lot of the Hodgdon powders. I suspect that the hodgdon ones are more consistant from lot to lot - bigger runs = better blending, maybe?) Here’s a list of ADI to Hodgdon Powder equivalents: AS30N=Clays AP50N = (No Hodgdon) AS50N = International AP70N = Universal AP100 = (No Hodgdon) AR2205 = H4227 AR2207 = H4198 AR2219 = H322 Bench Mark1 = (No Hodgdon) Bench Mark2 = BenchMark AR2206 = (No Hodgdon) AR2206H = H4895 AR2208 = Varget AR2209 = H4350 AR2213 = (Discontinued) AR2213SC = H4831 AR2217 = H1000 AR2225 = Retumbo AR2218 = H50BMG Regards 303Guy | |||
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Zimbabwe, That is a stunning rifle!!!!!!! Don | |||
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I did say it was a senior moment.  Paul B. | |||
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So it is therefore safe to assume that your particular senior moments contain thoughts with no validity? | |||
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It probably would be a strong arguement but that which it can do has already been done and history shows that there just isn't the interest in 25 caliber as there is in other calibers. It'll be interesting to see if the 25 WSSM will last the test of time.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Ah yes sorry... I have just got myself a tin of 2213sc so will see how we go, Cheers for that. It good to hear a few other people in NZ with the Bob | |||
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Pedant  Of coarse, strictly you're right, but AFAIK you would be unlikely to be able to buy AR2213 or H4831 these days. Though for people like me with a cupboard full of all sorts it could be significant. From the little load work I have done with 2213 (old kind) it was within 1 grain of MRP. I suspect that with the old style H4831 volume would have been the limiting factor it was so coarse grained.
Cool list, I knew a lot of them were cross overs but not sure how far it went, that is good stuff to know, thanks. But surely the list should read AR2213sc = H4831sc Haaa, gotcha Steve | |||
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 Actually, I had the impression that ADI were making AR2213 before Hodgdon started sourcing H4831 from them so they reformulated the quite close AR2213 to H4831 specs and renamed it AR2213SC. But that's just a guess. They make some pretty good stuff! It must be the Kiwi connection that makes the Auzzies so good. I wonder why that is? Those folks who have a 25 calober swear by them. The 243 has virtually no velocity or range edge over the Roberts but the Roberts has a distinct 'heavier bullet' edge and a lot more power at extreme ranges (going by the tables). The Roberts drives 85gr bullet to the same velocity as the 243 does a 80gr bullet, giving them the same trajectory but better wind bucking for the 257. And then the handloader can take it up to equal the 243 pressures and overtake the 243 in speed. See ...! Oh well ... Edited to add; Check this out! 100gr & 85gr 257 Nosler ballistic tip versus 80gr 243 Nosler ballistic tip. Those would be maximum possible velocity with carefully chosen powders and running the Roberts at 243 pressure. Regards 303Guy | |||
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My my, ain't we touchy. What give you the right to say my thoughts have no validity? What was said was in jest, not the smilies. ( A sample in case you didn't get it.  ) and you get your lace panties in a wad.I guess some people just haven't any sense of humor. IT WAS JOKE, get it? Paul B. | |||
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My, my, yes, someone does seem to be touchy... It's easy to misconstrue and miscommmunicate on forums (smilies or not). I was just trying to understand what your position is. If I got YOUR lacy panties in a wad. sorry. | |||
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No, no wadded panties here. Just a very dry snide sense of humor at times. Guess it's because I already have a couple of .257 Bobs and a couple of 25-06s, I just don't see the need for latest and greatest wonder round. If the .25 WSSM floats your boat, hell paddle away and enjoy it. "Every man has the right to scratch his fleas in what ever manner he chooses." Paul B. | |||
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Paul B, how would you compare these two calibers with the 243 and 6mm Remington? Is there any noticeable difference between the 25-06 and the 257 Roberts? P.S. The 'dialogue' was funny! Regards 303Guy | |||
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Hey, Paul, no harm, no foul. I'm a 25 cal nut too. Got my 1st 25/06 in the '60's when it was still a wildcat. Have had several 257's, and a couple of 257AI's. Have hunted more with them in the last 25 or so years than anything else. I did succumb to the lure of the 25WSSM. Same capacity as the Better Bob and that M70 FWT is a sweet little rifle. But, although it's been fun to play with, I'll admit it won't do anything the others won't do. And I wish winchester would have brought out the 257 in the FWT instead. | |||
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Vapodog, Its called regression..We start life with small calibers and go to big ones, then reverse to small ones as we age...Just like your were born naked and hairless and you shall return to naked and hairless!  thus my choice of the 25-35 and the 250-3000 Savage (the guns of my youth) They don't recoil, they don't blast and they are very accurate and they kill about as well as anything with a properly placed shot, and the big bores don't kill any better with poorly placed shots, the results are the same any way you cut it....oh my!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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...and wrinkled! | |||
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I must admit that I am still impressed with big numbers and big looking bores, but.... when I see a humble little 22 Hornet zapping a goat with 55gr bullets at 80m and it looks like a 308 has gone through it, (except for the smaller holes in the skin), I realize that on appropriate sized game (and maybe inappropriately sized) there is no reason to go with bigger and or faster. Just one question ..... a 25/303 is identical to the 250 Savage in all respects - velocity, capacity and pressure, so why does the long barrelled one I heard being fired make such a sharp and load 'bang'? It does sound good, especially that long and drawn out reverberation in the hills! It does have a muzzle cap - maybe it acts like a muzzle blast intensifier.  Say, Shinzo , I can't seem to find H4831 being called H4831SC? I do recall seeing it being called that somewhere! Regards 303Guy | |||
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Way back before Winchester began making the Bob in Model 70 Featherweight, I built my Bob on a 1909 Mauser with a Douglas Featherweight barrel. Throated to accept OAL just over 3", it's generally good for 3/4" groups if I do my part. The stock is a very nice piece of Pachmayr Claro. It's one of the last rifles I'd sell. | |||
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I have three rifles chambered in 257 Roberts; two short action rifles, and a Ruger 77 Mk II long action. I couldn't ask for better accuracy from any of them. The short actioned rifles are a Rem 722 and a custom 700 SA, with a Douglas Barrel. The two short actioned ones both shoot the 87 grain Speer bullets and the 90 grain Sierra HPBT bullets well. The long action rifle likes the 100 grain Nosler partitions. H-4350 seems to be ideal for this chambering as all of my rifles like it. Don | |||
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H4831SC is exactly what it says on the can (actually plastic bottle) in my reloading cupboard. I've had it about 8 years now, not sure if we can still get Hodgdons or just ADI now but I think its still about. Steve. | |||
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303guy: IF a person really wanted to do it, couldn't he use one of the Indian-made SMLEs in .308 for a Roberts? Not sure why anyone would want to do it ... There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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I think the 6MM Rem. is a better cartridge design, but it lost the competition due to Remington's poor choice of twist rate for their barrels. Witht hat said, either round will do what it was designed to do although the 6MM can be loaded a little faster than the .243. I have both so for all practical purposes it's a tie. The 257 Bob. is bases on the 7x57 cartridge while the 25-06 is on the 30-06 round. The advantage of course goes to the 25-06 regarding top velocity. To be honest, I'm rather new to the 25's. I've only had the .257 and 25-06 for about a year now other than my Ruger #1 in .257 Bob which I've had foe a couple of years now. very accurate but just too damn heavy to pack around in the hills. paul B. | |||
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Bill/Oregon, I must say I had never heard of an Indian made SMLE in 308. I wonder whether the Indian made ones were of stronger steel? I did have such an action once (fitted to a new barrel by a 'smith) but it was a poor example and I threw it away. I do know the No.4 was made from modern steel and were used to great effect on 308 target rifles and of course the British sniper rifles but it is said that there is no safety margin in them. However, the SAAMI specs for the Roberts is the same as for the 303 British so any Lee Enfield action could be used. Personally, I would only use the No.4 action because of the possibility of European factory loads being higher than SAAMI. I did read somewhere that SLME's were tried in 308 but that the bolts set back after only a few shots and so the trial was ended. Maybe those were the Indian ones? Regards 303Guy | |||
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Winchester did make the Bob in the Featherweight. I have one, but it is the push feed version which is fine by me. I have it's mate in 7x57 as well and I love them both. However, the Bob, along with the 6.5x55 and 7x57 are the scarcer versions of those rifles. I'm not sure, but I think the 6.5 is the scarcest of the three and the Bob next. I've had mine glass bedded and a proper trigger job and the 7X57 is a tackdriver. The Bob is relatively new to me and I'm still trying to find out what it likes. FWIW, the 7x57 will do anywhere from .375" to 1.0" depending on the bullet being used. The only one it won't shoot worth a damn is the bulk pack Winchester 150 gr. Power Points. They scatter like buckshot. I've got the Bob down to 1.25" with some Sierra 100 gr. Game Kings but I'm thinking of changing to another powder. We'll just ahve to see. paul B. | |||
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Yep, I had a couple of them in the early '80's...wish I still had 'em! | |||
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I remember reading some time ago about a man who worked years ago for the American (or was it the Smithsonian, or some other?) Museum of Natural History, who went around the world collecting animals so that they could be mounted and displayed in the museum. He used, by choice, a Savage 99 in 250-3000 because he found that it killed as well as larger rifles, but that it damaged pelts less, and skins and pelts and trophies with minimal damage were what he museum needed for its displays. "How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?" | |||
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Have a squizzy at this site Indian SMLEs to update your education re SMLEs in 308, the whole site is well worth a rummage thru, lots of really cool stuff. Steve | |||
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Hey.... That is real interesting! I had no idea! Thanks for that Shinzo. Obviously, that was not the rifle in the trials. I wonder whether those trials I heard about were the prelude to the 'EN' SMLE? (They don't say which EN. EN 8 is axil grade mild steel, EN 18 is a general purpose high tensile steel, EN 24 is close to 4140 - modern steel used in rifle actions and barrels - but is unstable in machining and EN 30 is, I think similar to 4141). The sample Indian made SMLE I threw away was made during WWII so was understandably rough and worn. Regards 303Guy | |||
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