I am looking for some load recommendations for a load around 1800-2500 fps. I am flexable on bullet weight. I have a single shot rifle so cycling is not an issue. I saw some discussion for Trail Boss and other pistol powers with the safety warnings. I like the safety in the volume of Trail Boss with the warnings about compressed charges. I am just looking for some safe loads for plinking and for when I don't want the "big boom" echoing through the valley. I saw some loads with Blue Dot that fit the bill, with the double charge warnings. I was just wondering if there are any other safe options.

Rick

I don't think that rejecting a powder just because the case volume theoretically allows double charging is called for. After all, almost all pistol loads can be double charged. And you should visually inspect all of the cases in the tray after charging just to assure that all are properly charged, nyway. It takes all of fifteen seconds.

I like Blue Dot a lot, and have had great success with accuracy using it. I'd suggest you try about 10 or 11 grains with any bullet weight up to 60 grains in your .223 for the velocity range you're looking for. My personal recipe calls for a little more powder using a 50 grainer, but also yields a little more velocity.

I second Stonecreek's comment about Blue Dot. Really works in my 700V, excellent accuracy. About the same loads as he suggests.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
I don't think that rejecting a powder just because the case volume theoretically allows double charging is called for. After all, almost all pistol loads can be double charged. And you should visually inspect all of the cases in the tray after charging just to assure that all are properly charged, nyway. It takes all of fifteen seconds.

I like Blue Dot a lot, and have had great success with accuracy using it. I'd suggest you try about 10 or 11 grains with any bullet weight up to 60 grains in your .223 for the velocity range you're looking for. My personal recipe calls for a little more powder using a 50 grainer, but also yields a little more velocity.

I haven't loaded any .223 rounds yet with Blue dot but will be doing so in the future.

Question: Is the noise from these Blue Dot loads less than say some of the more common .223 powders?

Hot Core must have missed this one..

Blue Dot and 223 loads... he usually has that subject on radar, so he can tell you how you will eventually kill yourself doing it...

or maybe he is just waiting for me to chime in so he can accuse me of trying to kill people instead...

however, if you are wanting to use loads that there are reference material for, and yet are still bulky, there are other powder choices..

another powder I work with a lot is SR 4759.
Trail Boss won't give you 1800 fps, but SR 4759 certainly will. It is also accurate and non finicky or position sensitive in the case.

For the velocity you are looking for, I am going to suggest that you try a charge of about 12 grains of it, and work your way down in 2/10 to 1/2 grain increments.

I speculate you will find what you are looking for somewhere between the 9 to 10 grains of SR 4759 range.

Even tho I stock a lot of Blue Dot for 223 use, I also stock a lot of SR 4759 which also sees a lot of service in my 223s...

it can also be done using AA 5744, both 4227s, both 4198s.. .but I think SR 4759 and Blue Dot are better choices..

look up in a cast bullet manual by Lyman, Unique, Red Dot and Green Dot are also real useful powders to accomplish what you are trying to achieve. the Lyman manual has a lot of loads with cast bullets using those powders in the 1800 to 2000 fps MV...

Good luck..

and give my best regards to Hot Core if he shows up to flame me as usual on this subject.

quote:

estion: Is the noise from these Blue Dot loads less than say some of the more common .223 powders

Yes, they are.

You want mild, use some cast bullets. There will be those that will tell you open heart surgery on a flea would be less tedious---I do not find that to be true at all. I shot a whole bunch of the 58 grain RCBS cast bullets in .222 and 22-250 in the 2000--2200 fps velocity. They were great on jackrabbits, and for shooting from inside a pickup kept the blast down real well. MY .223 is a Win mod 70 and I guess the twist is wrong---couldnt get the cast bullets to shoot worth a darn it. If your .223 will shoot cast should be the answer for you.

Hey Rick, I think this link contains most of my thoughts on using an Improper Powder.

Lots of folks are using Blue Dot incorrectly and not reporting any of the Erratic Pressure Indicators that I saw. Makes me wonder if they are just not knowledgeable enough to recognize Pressure Spikes, or they see them and are determined to justify them away as something else.

Plenty of Powders are actually "designed" for Down-Loads. Using one which has already nearly Killed one guy and Locked-Up another guys rifle does not make good sense to me.

But..., if you think it is a good idea, best of luck to you. It is just a matter of time...

I have used a load of 12.0 grains of SR 4759 with 40 grain moly coated V-max bullets and Rem 7.5 primers in military .223 cases to get a chronographed velocity of about 2400 fps out of two different Remington .223 rifles. Very accurate, essentially one hole groups at 100 yards and low noise.

We shot Trail Boss in 223,243,270,7.62x54R,and 8x57mm Mauser yesterday.Good stuff and quiet.

If you didnt like 4gr Trail Boss/50gr VMax in the 223 I would be surprised.No recoil.Your rifle will shoot low.If you have a mildot scope this is easily overcome.Gordon easily shot groups touching at 50yds with his M77 Ruger.

The 270 and 130gr Nosler BT over 15gr TrailBoss is a great load.

My 243 would not stabilize the 100gr bullet.I`m dropping down to 75gr/80gr bullet with 9 gr TrailBoss.

A nearly full case (15gr) in the 7.62x54R over a 123gr SKS bullet was plenty peppy but still very mild.Shot 3" high with 100yd sighting out of an already accurate Mosin Nagant.

I took Turk Mauser 8x57mm pulled bullets and seated them over 15gr TrailBoss in a VZ24 Mauser.Peppy and very mild ,shot well with a 400 meter sighting.

Barrel stays nice and cool even after 5 quick shots.Was not even warm to the touch in mid 30 degree weather.

Forgot the camera yesterday in my excitement to shoot.I am becoming a big fan of TrailBoss.It may be the ticket for warm weather shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

Lots of folks are using Blue Dot incorrectly and not reporting any of the Erratic Pressure Indicators that I saw...

Erattic Pressure Indicators! Hot Core, accomplished ballistician and slayer of "thousands" of deer, has coined a new technical term. I suggest that we condense the term to an acronym: I suggest ErPIng, pronounced "earping".

When a shooter experiences Erratic Pressure Indicators, he could simply say "My rifle was ErPIng (earping) primers on every shot". Or, "My brass looks like it had been earped on". And "This Blue Dot really earps".

Thanks, HC! We all owe you a debt of gratitude for expanding the nomeclature of shooting.

I have shot thousands of mild 223 loads using 11-14 grs. of IMR 4227 under the Hornady 45 gr. Spire point. The only problem is at the lower end and older cases don't obturate well making for smoky brass. Accuracy is excellent.

quote:

It is just a matter of time...

of which some people are just waiting for...

they already have their '"I told you so!!" written, refined, re written, re refined and ready to go!

If your single-shot is a NEF, send it off for a 22 Hornet barrel. You'll be glad you did !

I don't know what all the controversy about Blue Dot is. I shoot it, 4759 too, and they work prefectly fine for me. Any dumbo, can overcharge a case if he isn't paying attention. There was a thread here some time ago, about a guy who filled his 30-06 case wth 2400, and touched it off. I don't believe he had any pressure indicators LOL, just a blown up gun and he was lucky not to be hurt. I believe if we are discussing the possibility of blowing up your 223 with Blue Dot, we probably should include the dangers of loading Bullseye in pistol calibers as well.

Of course powders that fill, or nearly fill the case solve this "dumb shit" factor.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Of course powders that fill, or nearly fill the case solve this "dumb shit" factor.Jerry

First time I've seen that expression. Really paints a picture,Jerry.
I've experimented with fast burning powders in the .223,( SR7625, Unique and others )and have had some surprisingly good results. This stuff is done primarily to acquire experience, understanding and workable knowledge in handling potentially dangerous components. Truth is though I would not recommend the use of these powders as a steady diet. The longer and more often you do the greater the chance of an injury. Getting rid of the "Dumb Shit Factor" sounds about right to me. roger

I'm only going to advise Extreme Caution !. When using powders which aren't intended for the cartridge

your planing on using them in . It can be done is it advisable ?. Not unless YOU'RE EXPERIENCED at doing

it !. Why ? There is a phenomenon known as " Flash Over " which can cause a pressure spike like you

wouldn't believe . Occurs when case capacity is far lower than normal and the primer ignites front middle

and starting end of ignition trail . BOOM instead of Bang sometimes results . Watch yourselves !!!.

I use 12.5gr of BlueDot with 52gr SMKs in my Remmy PSS. Don't know velocity but accuracy is very good.