I've gone through almost four hundred 100 gr Nosler E-tips using IMR 8208/4350/4064, H4350/H4831sc/Varget, Rel 17/19 and Hunter. I finally narrowed it down to 40.8 gr of H4350. The best I got were 3-shot groups @ 285 yds that ran 5" to 7" and my velocity is only around 2900 fps. Maybe I'm being too picky but there's got to be something better.

Intended target is Utah spike elk.

Alan

GSSP welcome to the club! You don't say what rifle. My Ruger Ultralight has given me fits, but I finally had it bedded and recrowned and I am getting 1 1/2 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Honestly I would not shoot anything over 200 yards with it. But I would urge you to try different bullet weights to see which it shoots best. Mine seems to be at it's best with 117 grain bullets but shoots the above groups with 120 grain NPs. Have no experience with shooting elk but personally I would shoot a larger and longer range caliber eg. 6.5x55 or 7x57.
Peter.

Roll your loaded rounds on a smooth table top.
If you can see the tip of the bullet wobble you might check to see if you have a bad seating die.
Otherwise change to a different bullet and make sure it isn't some arrow long spike pointed thing.

Peter,

Here is the rifle. http://forums.accuratereloadin...811071631#3811071631

It has full metal to wood contact in the barrel channel. I can usually get two maybe three shots but the 3rd and always a 4th, if I shoot that many, open up the group. At 300 yds the other loads that showed a bit of promise at 100 were 11" to 14" groups.

I appreciate your concern over the 257 being a light for elk caliber but that's a discussion for another thread, not that it hasn't been hashed over plenty.

SR4759,

I've got a Sinclair concentricity tool and use it. I use the Forster Ultra Seater to seat the bullets. Their pretty straight.

Alan

Alan,

The BEST bullet I found in my Bob is the 117gr. SGK. Second best: 100gr. SGK. Granted, not the same rifle as yours, but I get 3/4" groups and often better if I really try.

Robert,

Yeah, I've seen your posts; 44 gr H4350 and the 117 SGK/boat tail! I'll be trying it.

Have you tried different primers to see if one works better for you over the others?

Alan

My Bob is a Mexican Mauser with a 24" Douglas barrel. It does not shoot boat-tails well at all. The flat-base 100 grain Speer is what it likes.

GSSP, an AR smith is building a BOB for me right now so I have done a butt load of research on what I will be loading. Waters says 4350 is THE powder w/ 100g bullets w/ H414 and H380 being a close second. I love your rifle and think you should check your bedding and barrel channel. I know you have a custom--very fine--rifle, but something's not right. I don't know what you paid for it, but I damn sure would expect/require more if it were mine.

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:
Robert,

Yeah, I've seen your posts; 44 gr H4350 and the 117 SGK/boat tail! I'll be trying it.

Have you tried different primers to see if one works better for you over the others?

Alan

45.0 grains of H-4350, and 100 grain Nosler Partitions shoot well in my Ruger 77/257. Fed 210's also.

ive owned 3 257 rugers and one win featherweight and theyve all gone down the road because they just werent accurate. Best ive ever done with one is about 1.5 at a hundred and it took about as much outlay in money for bullets and powder getting that load as the gun cost. Dont know if its just bad luck or something wrong. Only 257 ruger ive ever seen that shot well was my buddys 77r. I love the round but just cant seem to find a good shooting rifle in that caliber. I think after the first of the year im going to buy myself one of the little light weight kimbers and see if that will shoot. Watch the classifieds though as im sure not betting the farm that it will shoot either.

For elk try the 100gr TSX or 115gr TSX if you have a faster twist. I use 39.0gr/IMR4064 with a col of 2.885". Out of a 22" M700 Classic this load yields about 2950 fps and shoots one ragged hole at 100 yards. I have shot it out to 525 yards with better than moa accuracy.

Perry

Mine likes H-380

My Roberts is a Stevens 200 Hybrid.
It loves Varget, 100gr Partitions and 110gr Accubonds. It shoots MOA at 200yds consistently.
My brass is Remington and my primer is CCI.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

GSSP, yes, I remember that beautiful rifle, and I remember thinking "I hope it shoots as good as it looks". As near as I can tell, the 257R is somewhat iffy accuracy wise. I have no idea why. I would have thought they would have figured out how to build an accurate 257R by now.But you can see by the above post what I mean. I stand by my suggestion to try different bullet weights and different bullets, just to allow for different barrel twist rates.
Peter.

quote:

SR4759,

I've got a Sinclair concentricity tool and use it. I use the Forster Ultra Seater to seat the bullets. Their pretty straight.

Alan

Hi Alan,
Just the same for your own experience roll the loaded rounds. It only takes a minute and no gadget to see run out greater than .003.
If your rounds do not wobble think about using a shorter bullet.
I bought one of Remington's first 25-06 and never got really great resultd with the longer heavier bullets. However the plain vanilla 100 grain Sierra flat base bullets consistently shot groups into the 3/4" to 5/8" range. This was over about 5 boxes and about 15 years.

My .257 AI was fussy till I put the Combined Technology 115 grain Silver tips in front of IMR 4895. I must say I also shot the series of David Tubbs bore polishing bullets thru it. Shoots sub MOA now.

GSSP,

I'm just wondering why you're stuck on using the 100 gr E-tips? It seems as if they're not working for you in your particular rifle. My advice would be to give them up and try a different bullet.

Are you stuck by regulation to using non-lead bullets? If not, try a 115 or a 120 gr partition, or a 117 or 120 Hornady interlock, especially the 120 round nose interlock. Some barrels just don't like a particular bullet, and that's life. No use beating a dead horse about it, just move on to another bullet.

If you're stuck using non-lead bullets by gov. mandate (you poor sod), then try the Barnes tsx in 115 gr, or the tipped tsx in 100 gr.

My daughter's roberts rifle likes the 100 gr Nosler ballistic tips over 43.5 grs of IMR4350 and a standard Remington primer the best so far. I do have some 100 gr tsx's loaded up to test in it, but haven't run them through it yet. Her's is just a deer rifle, so I haven't attempted any heavier bullets in it.

Slim,

No, I'm not stuck on the e-tip. The Nosler Pro shop had them on sale as seconds and I thought it would be a good bullet to start with. With all the powders I've got I thought I could find a good load. Still have 150 left and the'll probably go up for sale.

Just for a base line test, I tried some Winchester factory 117 +P round nose. Accruacy was around 1" to 1-1/2" 3-shot groups. I also have a box of Federal Premium 120 PT coming just to prove to myself what the'll do.

I forgot that a few weeks back I did test some 100 gr TTSX working upto 47 gr of Hunter, WW Super cases, WLR primers. I got 3 shots into .76" and 5 into 2.16". Vel was 3176 fps, 21 ES and 8 SD. Thanks for jogging my memory about it. I guess I wanted to really focus on the e-tip since I had so many.

I do plan on trying other Cup and Core bullets. I've got on hand, 100 gr Hornady IL and 110 IB, Nosler 100 BT, 110 AB, 100 gr Sierra PH and GK, Speer 100 HC and SPBT. Given time I'm sure I'll move onto the Nosler PT's and maybe the 115 TSX.

Powders I've got on hand; H/IMR 4350, H 4831sc, Varget, Rel 15/17/19/22/25, IMR 3031, 4064 and 8208, H414, and H1000. Oh yeah, Ramshot Magnum and Big Game.

A good friend of mine from Down Under, suggested I'm spending more money in components than possibly having a reputable gunsmith do something to the bedding and maybe free float the barrel.

Or, I could just simply stick to the 100 TTSX and Hunter load.

I did try a quick float job by inserting a flat square of plastic (bread bag tab) under the front action screw. Didn't seem to make a difference.

Alan

I hate to point this out, but perhaps this is why the fellow sold you that gorgeous rifle????

I used to use 100 gn Nosler Ballistic Tips with IMR 4064. I also had good luck with factory Winchester+P 117 gn Powerpoints

I have sometimes found that I needed to push long(er) bullets at maximum safe pressures to get them to group. I have a Remington 722 in 257 Roberts that wouldn't shoot 115 grain BTs worth a darn until I pushed them at, or maybe a little above, the recommended maximum. Now, I'm obviously NOT recommending that ANYONE exceed the maximum recommended loads, just recounting my experience. In this particular rifle/bullet/power combination, the group size drop 0.5 MOA with an additional 2 grain of H4895.

Jeff

Jeff

Understand! Are you talking about pressure, velocity or both?

Alan

My old ladies ruger ultra light shoots 100 grain Sierra's with max doses of IMR-4064 into tiny little groups. My 96 action with a Pac Nor barrel shoots 117 Sierra's with 41.5 grains of IMR-4350 into tiny little groups and my brothers Remington 700 stainless shoots both those loads just as well in his rifle.
Maybe its those E-tips that are not compatible with your rifle?

Snellstrom

I'm leaning towards agreeing with you!

Alan

I assume that 2.0 extra grains of H4895 would produce both higher pressure and higher velocity, but I never chrony'd that load. Many of the recommended loads for the 257 Roberts are on the light side, pressure wise. For example, the Hodgdon on-line data shows a maximum load of 36.0 grains of H4895 giving 2798 fps at 45,000 CUP in the 257 Roberts with a 115 grain Partition. For the 270, Hodgdon's on-line data shows a variety of loads for the 270 at 50K to 51K CUP, so if you're shooting the 257 Roberts in the same action design as the 270, it is probably not particularly unsafe to exceed the 45K CUP maximum. Of course, I have no way of scientifically testing the pressures generated by 38.0 grains of H4895 in the 257 Roberts, so that load might be unsafe, according to the rules of the game. I have fired a couple hundred rounds using that combination of components without seeing any signs of excess pressure, but every rifle is a little different, so YMMV.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:
Peter,

Here is the rifle. http://forums.accuratereloadin...811071631#3811071631

It has full metal to wood contact in the barrel channel. I can usually get two maybe three shots but the 3rd and always a 4th, if I shoot that many, open up the group. At 300 yds the other loads that showed a bit of promise at 100 were 11" to 14" groups.

I appreciate your concern over the 257 being a light for elk caliber but that's a discussion for another thread, not that it hasn't been hashed over plenty.

SR4759,

I've got a Sinclair concentricity tool and use it. I use the Forster Ultra Seater to seat the bullets. Their pretty straight.

Alan

Have you considered bedding the action and free-floating the barrel?

Clem,

Yeah, it's an option, but for as much as I paid for this rifle, bedding and free floating the barrel is the "last" option. The wood to metal fit is amazing.

Alan

Been shooting the 257R since the early seventies. I've had good luck with IMR4064 and IMR and H4350 in a number of rifles. One of the best has been the above H4350 100 grain load. It has been good with Hornady, Sierra and Barnes blue bullets.
Just a friendly question. Have you considered that 'seconds' may not be the best choice to make an accuracy assessment of a new rifle? If it were mine, I'd try a few other bullets and loads before I spent money on a gunsmith.
I remember Clay Harvey used to rant at length about how inaccurate the 257R was. I've had one that was pretty finicky about loads, but a great shooter with a little work at the loading bench. The rest were decent with most loads. None really liked factory ammo.
Good Luck.
Bfly

The best luck I've had with factory ammo has been the Remington green and yellow box core-lokt 117 gr bullets. The Hornady "light magnum" ammo shot horribly for me. The Federal premium 120 gr partition load shot in between the other two loads, not great but passable.

I've easily been able to beat the factory ammo accuracy with my handloads.

I've also had good luck with IMR 4064 in the past in both the regular roberts and my AI, but IMR 4350 has usually beaten the faster 4064.

I would view the E-tip bullet the same way I looked at the Barnes bullets. I've had some rifles that will shoot the Barnes copper bullets very well, and some would not shoot them at all. It seems to me to be more prevalent in the smaller calibers than the larger ones. I don't know why, it's just something I've noticed.

BTW, 5 shots into 3/4" is pretty darn respectable for a hunting rifle. If it were mine (I wish!), I'd be done at that point and just load that recipe and enjoy that beautiful rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:
Robert,

Yeah, I've seen your posts; 44 gr H4350 and the 117 SGK/boat tail! I'll be trying it.

Have you tried different primers to see if one works better for you over the others?

Alan

Hi Alan,

Nope, never did bother to track other primers. I've used three different ones (CCI LR, Fed LR, Rem LR Match) and never saw any real difference. Everything I've read and seen suggests that a primer change "might" make a difference, but only after the basics of Powder and Bullet have been determined.

As an aside, the Partition and AB's never did print as well as the SGK's. Runner up on the SGK's is the Barnes Banded Solids (very pretty bullets!) and the Hornady 117 SST. The one deer that I hit with an SST was demolished internally. Like a grenade went off in it's chest. It lacked penetration on piggies though which is why I started using the SGK's more.

Don't float it! I'm sure you can find something that will work.

For some reason, Ramshot Hunter has worked incredibly well for me in every Roberts I have loaded for. It is usually with 100gr Partitions, but id at least give it a whirl.

When a rifle tends to give me trouble with accuracy, I give it a run with some match grade bullets. Try some Sierra Match Kings, if the rifle wont shoot those well, there is a problem.

You've probably checked his, but are you absolutely certain the crown is good? That's a pretty easy, non-destructive fix if it needs attention.

Robert,

The day a friend let me borrow/shoot over his Oehler 35p with the Barnes 100 TTSX and Hunter load I tested 3 primers; CCI 200, Fed 210M and WLR. It came out thusly.

CCI 200, 3147 fps, 55 ES, 24 SD
Fed 210M, 3137 fps, 44 ES, 17 SD
WLR 3176 fps, 21 ES, 8 SD

I suppose for a basic hunting rifle, it may not matter too much about the ES and SD. It really matters when I'm shooting 6,7,8,900 or 1000 yds for vertical stringing. I'm looking for single digit SD's.

The biggest difference if the fps increase though it's not huge. Accuracy @ 100 yds wasn't much more than .2" difference in group size.



Alan

Charlie,

Thanks, I'll take a 10x mag loop and take a look at the crown.

I initial focus will be on Hunter powder. John Barsness seems to have great success with Hunter and I believe the 100 TTSX.

Alan

Charley,

Thanks for the idea. I'll take a 10x mag loop and look closely at the crown.

Also, I'm likely to focus my attention on Hunter and the 100 gr TTSX as I believe John Barsness has had a lot of success with that combo.

Alan

You can put some shim stock or a thin washer between the stock and front ring guard screw to raise the barrel out of the stock to see if floating would solve or aggravate the situation; then you can remove that shim and put various amounts of shim stock between the barrel and forend tip to see if a pressure point is needed. Then once you get your data, you will have to make a decision; closet queen or hunting rifle.

airgun1

Have completed the first suggestion you made. I saw no difference.

Thanks,

Alan

How about trying a pressure point?

I had a terrible time finding a load for a Win 70 in 257 bob, with a bit of a deadline. I ended up shooting some factory 117gr BTSP's which grouped better than what I been able to build. So I sighted in the rifle on that load and my partners wife used it to shoot a gager Mule buck and an average whitey, a pair of one shot kills. FS

Well, I can breath a little earier.

I just got back from shooting. I had two goals.

1) A primer test for the 100 gr E-tip with what seemed to be the best charge of H4350; 40.8 gr. Used WLR, CCI 200, Rem 9-1/2 and Fed 210M.

2) I had three Barnes 100 gr TTSX left from the 50 rd box I bought. As a last minute thought I threw them together with Barnes' book max load of 46.5 gr of Hunter and WLR primers. Earlier this month I tried 47 gr and got a 3-shot group running .76". Today, I got the 3-shots into .73" running 3031 fps with an ES of 42 fps.

Here's the pic


The best E-tip group ran 2.26" at 2937 fps. That's sad compared to the 100 gr TTSX.

So, with in mind, I'll think I'll buy some more 100 gr TTSX and let all know that I got about 150+ Nosler 100 gr E-tips Seconds going "cheap"!

Alan

I have a Ruger 77 Hawkeye in the Bob. I never got really good groups - maybe 1-1/2 or so with the Hornady Custom 117 interlocks. I really wanted to use the 100 grain partitions and tried multiple powders and loads. None shot well enough to please me. I tried the 100 grain Tipped Triple Shocks with 44.4 grains of IMR 4350 - Federal Gold Metal 210 primers and OAL of 2.783. Shoots great - usually about 3/4" - I did add one of the SVL barrel rubber doughnuts -that seemed to help some too - but I'd hate to put a rubber doughnut on that rifle of yours!

Glad things are better - it's frustrating to have that much reloading experience, a great rifle, and it shoots like crap for a while - til you find the secret recipe ..........I love mine - it's just so much fun to shoot!

Bob with a Bob

What is it about the TSX/TTSX that, IMO, always seems to shoot? I have a Rem 700 CDL SF in 260 Rem that just loves the Barnes bullets.

And the terminal performance; I hear so many good and well as bad things about them.

They open......They don't open. Is that why they invented the TTSX, to insure they open?

Alan