It has been said that it is America's version of the famous Swedish 6.5x55 mm. Again a very well dimensioned case in my opinion - not exaggerated in any way that is fit for a short action, similar to the 308 Win that served as the parent case. As a light recoiling rifle it should find an attraction with many hunters, without giving much away in the field on medium game.

In Sweden there are many die-hards for sure that will defend their 6.5 mm, and not even considering getting close rivals - it is like a tradition.

Would be interesting to get some views from 260 Remington owners and what their experiences have been. Also some reports from Sweden on their 6.5 would be great to hear. I believe many Scandinavians (not just the Swedish) use the traditional and popular 156 gr bullet (read high SD bullet) in the caliber on elk.

Warrior

quote:

Is the 260 Remington gaining a foothold in the States.

There are a few around but very few.

I wouldn't exactly say it's taking over!!!

There are a lot more 6.5 Swedes and folks love them.....the .260 Rem is a close duplicate in performance but just isn't as popular as it should be....great round.....

6.5 mm Bullets are generally long (higher SD) and when made sleeker (more aerodynamic) BC's can be quite high. To match the BC of the 6.5 mm 139-grain Lapua Scenar bullet (BC=0.615), the .30 caliber has to stepped up to the 210-grain Berger VLD bullet (BC= 0.631) to be beaten.


For comparison a .30 caliber 175-grain Sierra MatchKing bullet (BC=0.496) still fall short in BC.

To really beat it by a fair margin, one has to go to the .338 caliber 250-grain Lapua Scenar bullet (BC=0.675).

"Compared to the venerable .300 Winchester Magnum's most common load - a 190-grain Sierra MatchKing at 2900 fps - the .260 has about 17% less wind drift and a few clicks less drop. Even though it shoots a 140-grain bullet, it still has 87% of the Magnum's energy at 1000 yards because its slim design yields a much higher ballistic coefficient (BC) value, so it retrains velocity longer. It also has 60% less recoil than the 300. The .260 Remington blows .308 out of the water. It has 35% less wind drift and about 10 MOA less drop at 1000 yards than the standard 175-grain M118LR load. Despite a 35-grain deficiency in bullet mass, it has 31% more energy because it loses less along the way due to atmospheric drag, hitting 350 fps faster at 1000 yards

and he continues .....


"The beauty of .260 is that it is a drop-in replacement in .308 rifles, providing a dramatic ballistic upgrade with only a barrel change. Since it is based on the .308 case, .260 cases can be formed easily by necking down .308 cases. Bolt-face size, feeding, and magazines are not affected." .... Zak Smith

Warrior

It may take a toe-hold some day. IMHO it was a marketing mistake. Even the ill advising sporting goods store's counter boys weren't pushing it.For some reason it was put in competition with an over crowded, existing cartridge field.
From a design consideration the short neck and shallow throat leave a lot to be desired.
The parent (.308) was only popular because it was adopted by the 30 caliber driven inept military (Gen. MacArther sydrome). If not true why weren't there more .300 Savage rifles?

The .308 than propagated it's clones which didn't bring anything to the table either.Just one man's opinion. roger

In short, I don't think so. There's too many other arguably better 6.5s. The 6.5x47 Lapua and 6.5 Creedmoor do essentially the same thing with sharper shoulders and less powder. The 6.5x55 has the history and nostalgia advantage. The 6.5-06 and 6.5x284 the powder advantage. I would not get a .260 Remington.

LWD

I think it's a pretty good round. But, it's too close to my 7-08 for me to get real serious about getting one.

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
6.5 mm Bullets are generally long (higher SD) and when made sleeker (more aerodynamic) BC's can be quite high. To match the BC of the 6.5 mm 139-grain Lapua Scenar bullet (BC=0.615), the .30 caliber has to stepped up to the 210-grain Berger VLD bullet (BC= 0.631) to be beaten.


For comparison a .30 caliber 175-grain Sierra MatchKing bullet (BC=0.496) still fall short in BC.

To really beat it by a fair margin, one has to go to the .338 caliber 250-grain Lapua Scenar bullet (BC=0.675).

"Compared to the venerable .300 Winchester Magnum's most common load - a 190-grain Sierra MatchKing at 2900 fps - the .260 has about 17% less wind drift and a few clicks less drop. Even though it shoots a 140-grain bullet, it still has 87% of the Magnum's energy at 1000 yards because its slim design yields a much higher ballistic coefficient (BC) value, so it retrains velocity longer. It also has 60% less recoil than the 300. The .260 Remington blows .308 out of the water. It has 35% less wind drift and about 10 MOA less drop at 1000 yards than the standard 175-grain M118LR load. Despite a 35-grain deficiency in bullet mass, it has 31% more energy because it loses less along the way due to atmospheric drag, hitting 350 fps faster at 1000 yards

and he continues .....


"The beauty of .260 is that it is a drop-in replacement in .308 rifles, providing a dramatic ballistic upgrade with only a barrel change. Since it is based on the .308 case, .260 cases can be formed easily by necking down .308 cases. Bolt-face size, feeding, and magazines are not affected." .... Zak Smith

Warrior

The .308 155 Scenar and it's .505BC is no slouch,allowing far better speeds than the feeble 175SMK.

Better on Game to boot.

quote:

The parent (.308) was only popular because it was adopted by the 30 caliber driven inept military (Gen. MacArther sydrome). If not true why weren't there more .300 Savage rifles?

Bartsche,

You seem to hold a very strong view when you call it an "inept military Gen. MacArther syndrome". I always thought highly of MacArther who could have become the next president of the United States after the war.



"I have returned" — General Douglas MacArthur returns to the Philippines. Supreme Allied Commander during World War II and United Nations Commander for the Korean War.

I would venture to say the 308 Win killed the .300 Savage. The .300 Savage distinguished itself by serving as the parent case to the .308 Winchester (7.62x51mm NATO) cartridge, a round that was developed for the US armed forces in the 1950's, and which is still in use today. To have a military assault rifle on automatic fire requires to tone the recoil down so barrel lift is not too high. I did my military training with a FN Browning and it was very effective out to 400 yds.

What would you suggest the military should have opted for:

a) at the time (the 50's)?
b) today with the benefit of hindsight?

Different views are always thought provoking.

Warrior

Give "Unintended Consequences" a read and get back to me on that.

"(The self-named Bonus Expeditionary Force was an assemblage of some 43,000 marchers—17,000 World War I veterans, their families, and affiliated groups - who protested in Washington, D.C., in spring and summer of 1932. Called the Bonus March by the news media, the Bonus Marchers were more popularly known as the Bonus Army. It was led by Walter W. Waters, a former Army sergeant. The veterans were encouraged in their demand for immediate cash-payment redemption of their service certificates by retired U.S.M.C. Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, one of the most popular military figures of the time.
The war veterans, many of whom had been out of work since the beginning of the Great Depression, sought immediate cash payment of Service Certificates granted to them eight years earlier via the Adjusted Service Certificate Law of 1924. Each Service Certificate, issued to a qualified veteran soldier, bore a face value equal to the soldier's promised payment, plus compound interest. The problem was that the certificates (like bonds), matured twenty years from the date of original issuance, thus, under extant law, the Service Certificates could not be redeemed until 1945.
On July 28, U.S. Attorney General Mitchell ordered the veterans removed from all government property. Washington police met with resistance, shots were fired and two veterans were killed. President Hoover then ordered the army to clear out the veterans. The infantry and cavalry were supported by six tanks, and commanded by Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur. Major, later President, Dwight D. Eisenhower was his liaison with Washington police, and Major George Patton led the cavalry. The Bonus Army, their wives and children were driven out with fixed bayonets and adamsite gas, an arsenical vomiting agent, and their shelters and belongings burned. Two more of the veterans, and an unknown number of babies and children, died (accounts range from one to "a number" of casualties).)"

well after remington gave it the wrong twist rate, making it unsuitable for the bullets it should be shooting.
and the fact that the 7-08 exists.
and there's a 6.5-284 and the ruger supported 6.5.
ummm
no

6.5-284 s/a repeater mag confines are a serious bane and if going l/a,I'd much rather the 6.5-06 if not 6.5-06AI.

For starters.

Whirlwind,

Patton, at least, paid for his war crimes against the veterans. It would have been interesting to have seen how that scenario would have played out had those men been vietnam veterans. All of those non-combat troops willing to fix bayonets and and move women and children out might not have liked what combat trained men who knew the government had lied to them from the beginning would have done to them.

Rich
DRSS

Warrior,

deader than the obaminator's campaign promises...

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Whirlwind,

Patton, at least, paid for his war crimes against the veterans. It would have been interesting to have seen how that scenario would have played out had those men been vietnam veterans. All of those non-combat troops willing to fix bayonets and and move women and children out might not have liked what combat trained men who knew the government had lied to them from the beginning would have done to them.

Rich
DRSS

And just what "payment" is commensurate to offsetting one's own Country's civilians murder?

Do tell.

quote:

Warrior, deader than the obaminator's campaign promises... Rich

Ok, the 260 Rem seems dead, if I read you correctly. Nice to get various responses.

Bartsche,

Back to the other questions then:-

What would you suggest the military should have opted for (other than .308):

a) at the time (the 50's)?
b) today with the benefit of hindsight?

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

quote:

The parent (.308) was only popular because it was adopted by the 30 caliber driven inept military (Gen. MacArther sydrome). If not true why weren't there more .300 Savage rifles?

Bartsche,

You seem to hold a very strong view when you call it an "inept military Gen. MacArther syndrome". I always thought highly of MacArther Warrior

Study the battle of Pelelieu. Thousands of men died for a battle that should never have happened Thanks to your hero. Truman had the egomaniac pegged right when he fired his ass. That walk through the water to the beach was a publicity stunt well after the fighting in that area had stopped. The unexcussable lack of offensive action the first two days we were at war because of his inability to lead in crisis should have ended his career. Rather than bomb Japenese air fields in Formosa he allowed his b17s and other aircraft to be caught on the ground in the Phillipense. And that is history. Read the man's biography and related books and not just the propaganda put out by the press at that time or sense.

A lot of us in the 50s thought that we should have adopted a cartridge similar to the M43(7.62x39)or something that size in 6.5 or .270 like the Brits were looking at. The AK 47 was a great developement because the Russians were smart enough to take the example from the 8mm Kurz weapontry. WE were to smart to be taught.More than one person wondered why they didn't just adopt the 250-3000 with a 100grain bullet. Now I'm going to get off this soap box and have a meeting with Black Jack. He always cools me off.

Is this thread about the 260 Rem or about Patton? I'm from Canada. Didn't Custer get killed by the Sioux with the 260 Rem? Or was it Custer that killed the 260 Rem? Or was it the Sioux? Anyway, back to the original question. I just had a 260 Rem built, it's for MS and deer. But I'm not American.

Bobby B.

I love my 260 in a Ruger with 1-8 twist. I would like to have same rifle with 26" barrel. Ruger brought out the Creedmore with the longer tube and the velocities show the result. I don't mind long barrel on my hunting guns finding them steady and quiet.
McArthur was our Montgomery...
dmw

I've heard that Patton's death was no accident...

Rich
DRSS

I like the .260. Mine is very accurate and kills deer very dead. I can't make an argument comparing it to the 6.5Swede since I've never owned a Swede. I can't help but think some of the Swedes's appeal is the fact that you can buy a milsup for $100 or less whereas the .260 is only available in factory rifles that will cost several times that amount.
I don't think I've read a single post where the owner of a .260 wasn't pleased. Whilst the 6.5 owners talked about all the Swedish elk that the Swedes had killed and attribute to it a mystical killing power that defies phyics. Kinda like the pointless 7x57 versus 7-08.
I will admit the .260 fills a very narrow niche in the deer rifle lineup. But if one is just starting out and buys a .260, he is getting a cartridge that is vastly superior to the .243 and almost as good as the 7-08.

FWIW, I've talked to an old geezer that was there and he said the war offensive came to a stop while repeated movies and pictures of MacAuthur wading ashore were shot until they could get it just right and don't forget the bogus sound set up so he could announce "I have returned".

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
It has been said that it is America's version of the famous Swedish 6.5x55 mm. Again a very well dimensioned case in my opinion - not exaggerated in any way that is fit for a short action, similar to the 308 Win that served as the parent case. As a light recoiling rifle it should find an attraction with many hunters, without giving much away in the field on medium game.

In Sweden there are many die-hards for sure that will defend their 6.5 mm, and not even considering getting close rivals - it is like a tradition.

Would be interesting to get some views from 260 Remington owners and what their experiences have been. Also some reports from Sweden on their 6.5 would be great to hear. I believe many Scandinavians (not just the Swedish) use the traditional and popular 156 gr bullet (read high SD bullet) in the caliber on elk.

Warrior

It's tough to be popular among hunters when it falls between 6,17x52 and 7x52. Not to mention 7,62x51mm.

I don't really see the 260 as a better solution. Yes it can be had in a short action, but that compromises its ability to seat those LONG 6.5mm bullets. I have a 6.5X55 Sako and a Steyr in 6.5X57 both with long throats and long magazines that can use the heavy bullets. The 260 is an answer waiting for a question. Still a great deer round however.Just not as flexable as other 6.5's.

Is the .260 a good and adequate deer rifle?
absolutly
Will it gain a foothold in the States?

Was MacArthur a hero ? YES After
WWII to the Japanese people.
No to the American tax payers that footed the bill and made Japan a healthy nation.
For 5 years he was the strongest man in Japan.
Emperor Mac. The Korean War kinda broke his bubble.
Didn't get to the Black Jack. Had to settle for Canadian. It's all good some better than others. roger

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:
In short, I don't think so. There's too many other arguably better 6.5s. The 6.5x47 Lapua and 6.5 Creedmoor do essentially the same thing with sharper shoulders and less powder. The 6.5x55 has the history and nostalgia advantage. The 6.5-06 and 6.5x284 the powder advantage. I would not get a .260 Remington.

LWD

Yes! Exactly, the point of the 6.5x47 was to be able to seat those long 140-160 grain VLDs very far out and still use a short action. This just isn't possible in the 260 (or the 6.5x284).

If you have a long action build a 6.5x284 or 264. If you have a short action build a 6.5x47 or a 6.5 Grendel.

It's a wonderful cartridge, it has grown on me, Remington came out with a beautiful edition of it a couple of years ago, I use it for long-range sniping and predator hunting with light bullets. its a pleasure to shoot. I am in the process of having one built on an AR rifle.

I have built a bunch of 260 Ackley IMP (1 in 8 twist) & the customers love them for the accuracy & lack of recoil.

quote:

Yes! Exactly, the point of the 6.5x47 was to be able to seat those long 140-160 grain VLDs very far out and still use a short action. This just isn't possible in the 260 (or the 6.5x284).

This is the type of answer I was waiting for - more flexible than both the 260 Rem and 6.5x284. It is about how we motivate what we think is best, and this makes sense to me. Just hope they would make it into a hunting rifle version as well and not just single action for target shooting. If there are any negatives with the 6.5x47, let us hear about it. Sounds good to me.

On another note, is the Military still considering the 6.5 mm Grendel?

http://www.shootingillustrated...fles/6.5Grendel.html

Warrior

This leads me to a question:
how many of you actually load and shoot more than one, or perhaps two bullets in a rifle?
You read a lot about the versatility and flexibility RE bullets and powder with some cartridges. In the real world, how often does that happen?

Rich
DRSS

I do. 257, 257AI and 25/06 have varmint loads and deer loads. 280 and 7Mag have deer loads and elk loads.

I am a work up a good load and use it on everything guy.
As far as the "limitations" of a .260, I built mine as a deer rifle and I shoot 140s thru it. And it does an excellent job, thank you very much. I don't know if a 160 could be loaded into it or not. When I have an occassion to kill some-thing bigger, where I think the .260/140s wouldn't be the best choice, I get a bigger gun. Simple, huh?

You hear the same idle arguments in the 7x57 versus 7-08 threads.

The .260 is a very popular chambering in the target shooting circles. It seems to be a rifle for those "in the know". Many of my friends use them.

It doesn't seem that any 6.5mm cartridge has become wildly popular in the US.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
This leads me to a question:
how many of you actually load and shoot more than one, or perhaps two bullets in a rifle?
You read a lot about the versatility and flexibility RE bullets and powder with some cartridges. In the real world, how often does that happen?

Rich
DRSS

Good point....many of my rifles have only one loading for it.

I have a good friend who lives in Wyoming and owns a bunch of guns in various calibers. He and his son and daughters have been using one particular .260 he acquired and it has been affectionately dubbed "The Death Stick". Apparently it just "kills the hell out of everything it's shot at" according to him. I have a short action 700 laying around that needs a barrel and I have been thinking of screwing in a 260 barrel to try.

The 260 is a good round but come on fellows it's nothing more then a short 6.5 Swede basically. I have all the 6.5's and I compared the 260 to my 243 which I think it's very close to in performance on deer, maybe a tad better. My pick is my 7mm-08 which I feel blows the 260 away for hunting. Although I harvested some eastern white tail deer with the 260 I wasn't taken away with it performance. I will say it shoots flat, very light recoil, and deep penetration. It's a fine round and doesn't deserve to die, but it seems to just barely be hanging in there. Maybe Les Baers new bolt rifle will breathe some life into it as it's one of his chamberings.

If a 120 grain bullet at 3,000 FPS isn't good enough for you then forget the .260.....it's right on the same performance level as the .25-06 and just slightly behind the .270 Win.....but not off by much!

I pulled a .243 barrel from a M-70 featherweight and added a Douglas barrel in .260 to get mine......a great short action cartridge and rifle! IMO it'll stand toe to toe with any deer round a going......and that's saying something. It should be much more popular than it is!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
This leads me to a question:
how many of you actually load and shoot more than one, or perhaps two bullets in a rifle?
You read a lot about the versatility and flexibility RE bullets and powder with some cartridges. In the real world, how often does that happen?

Rich
DRSS

Rich,

I have four loads for my 6.5x284 that I shoot regularly:

95 grain Vmax load when I want to explode varmints at <500 yards

100 grain BT for antelope/coyotes out to 500 yards

120 grain TSX load for general deer sized game

142 SMK for 1,000 yard match shooting and long range varminting.

6.5 Creedmoor Finds Favor with Tactical Competitors.

http://bulletin.accurateshoote...actical-competitors/

Warrior

I don't think you find a million people using it.. at the same time, the following of those who own them are die hards and usually handloaders...

and like me, I am sure many others of them also own a couple of 6.5 x 55s....

in the 260 tho, I think most Americans get by with the heaviest bullet being a 140 grainer...

which it will give an MV of 2750 fps out of a 22 inch barrel, which is more than enough to take care of any animal short of an Alaskan bear...

6.5x284 requires a long action, very fast, short fat powder column, supposed to very accurate.

6.5x47 can seat longer bullets in a short action, shorter powder column than 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor.

260 short neck, long body. Reported accuracy problems.

6.5 Creedmoor designed to work in AR10-25 rifles. Also has longer neck like the 6.5x47.

6.5x55 Classic Swede, works in 30-06 length actions.

6.5x57 German redesigned Swede, works in same actions as 30-06.

6.5x68 Classic German magnum cartridge, 264 Winchester power in a beltless 8x68 case.

.260 short neck, long body. reported accuracy problems. ROFLMAO