I'd like to know how many folks here use a 243W for hunting deer?

Some swear by them and some swear at them...

Bullet recommendations?

Just curious as I have no experience with the round.

The deer here are < 200 lbs. and shots inside 200 yds. will be most common...I have a friend that is a bit recoil sensitive and doesn't enjoy shooting my 30-06 or 270W ...

He's a lefty and we're thinking along the Savage/Stevens lines as it's pretty economical and a sure-shooter out of the box

Definitely ain't pretty but a darn good accurate tool for the job!

Thanks!

I have and several friends still hunt with either a .243 or a 6mm Remington....(ballistically equivalent)

None of us ever lost a deer using a .243 and as a matter of fact, they result in more DRT shots than our much larger guns.

IMO using good 100 grain bullets, the .243 and 6mm Rem are damn fine deer rifles.

BTW....they sure are impressive using 55 grainers on varmints as well.

Darn fine calibers!

My mother uses one extensively and I've killed a few with it. It will kill them, but you have to make good shots (duh). The thing is, I've seen deer double-lung shot with it run hundreds of yards. I am not convinced that it is ideal. I would say that you would be much better off with a .257 Roberts, .260 Remington, 6.5 x 55, 7x57, or 7mm-08. All of those have very little kick and kill much more effectively IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

None of us ever lost a deer using a .243 and as a matter of fact, they result in more DRT shots than our much larger guns.

IMO using good 100 grain bullets, the .243 and 6mm Rem are damn fine deer rifles.

Hmmmm...I'm beginning to understand that alot of folk make that statement when using small calibers, i.e., 25-06 and 100/117grain, 6.5x55 and 120grain pills too!

Is there something MAGICAL about these smaller calibers being that they are driven pretty fast and using a fast-expanding bullet seem to just make these deer hit the dirt on impact?

Lately, I've been taking notice of this fact on a couple forums of this happening cosistently with well-placed shots!

I would be interested in your personal opinion about this my friend!

quote:

Originally posted by 31/2Makesmelaugh:
My mother uses one extensively and I've killed a few with it. It will kill them, but you have to make good shots (duh). The thing is, I've seen deer double-lung shot with it run hundreds of yards. I am not convinced that it is ideal. I would say that you would be much better off with a .257 Roberts, .260 Remington, 6.5 x 55, 7x57, or 7mm-08. All of those have very little kick and kill much more effectively IMHO.

Savage/Stevens don't carry the calibers you mentioned but the 7mm-08...so I may suggest that to him as well


I know that's a great cartridge for deer and light-recoiling...but he knew someone awhile back that only hunted deer with a 243W for many years with great results.

Hence, why I chose this caliber for him to familiarize himself with shooting and hunting as he has some confidence in it because of another's success.

As he'll be hunting with me from now on I thought it wise to know a little more about the cartridge from folks on here...and then make the suggestion to him again after I gain some confidence from you folks here...

quote:

Is there something MAGICAL about these smaller calibers being that they are driven pretty fast and using a fast-expanding bullet seem to just make these deer hit the dirt on impact?

IMO these are quite low recoil rifles and as such are likely to account for better bullet placement. Placement is the trump card in all rifle shooting......and these smaller calibers do it beautifully.

Also remember....deer aren't truly large animals...

A big whjitetail dresses at 200 pounds. It really don't take a large bullet to do him in... just good placement.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Also remember....deer aren't truly large animals...

A big whjitetail dresses at 200 pounds. It really don't take a large bullet to do him in... just good placement.

AMEN to that brother

get a real deer rifle. get a .260 (or 6.5 swede). There is no comparison between those rounds and a .243.
If your friend can't learn to accomadate a .260, perhaps he needs to consider golf.

My first deer rifle was a Remington 788 in 243. I still have that rifle and still love it. Even with all of the other rifles I've amassed over the years, I still find myself taking it out relatively often. I had it mothballed for about 10 years, then in 2004 I dusted it off and spent some time working up a good shooting handload. I settled on H-4350 and 95 gr. Hornady SST's. Out of the carbine length barrel in my gun they're running right at 2750 fps. The way that little gun kills deer with that load is uncanny, and all I can attribute it to is that the bullets are right in the sweet spot of their performance envelope. Since I started shooting it again I've been amazed at how deer shot with the 243 will just fall over, but I'll shoot deer with my big 338/378 custom rig with bullets at velocities that would blow your mind and STILL have deer run 75 yards back into the woods. These are solid heart & lung shots with both rifles, so we are talking apples to apples.

Anyway, that's one of the big reasons I'm such a big fan after all these years. That little gun gets it done, plain and simple, no fuss.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
get a real deer rifle. get a .260 (or 6.5 swede). There is no comparison between those rounds and a .243.
If your friend can't learn to accomadate a .260, perhaps he needs to consider golf.

He's looking into a Savage/Stevens rifle and there isn't one in my beloved 6.5x55mm or 260...Shoots!

Yep, I love that 6.5 too

quote:

Originally posted by Kingfisher:
My first deer rifle was a Remington 788 in 243. I still have that rifle and still love it. Even with all of the other rifles I've amassed over the years, I still find myself taking it out relatively often. I had it mothballed for about 10 years, then in 2004 I dusted it off and spent some time working up a good shooting handload. I settled on H-4350 and 95 gr. Hornady SST's. Out of the carbine length barrel in my gun they're running right at 2750 fps. The way that little gun kills deer with that load is uncanny, and all I can attribute it to is that the bullets are right in the sweet spot of their performance envelope. Since I started shooting it again I've been amazed at how deer shot with the 243 will just fall over, but I'll shoot deer with my big 338/378 custom rig with bullets at velocities that would blow your mind and STILL have deer run 75 yards back into the woods. These are solid heart & lung shots with both rifles, so we are talking apples to apples.

Anyway, that's one of the big reasons I'm such a big fan after all these years. That little gun gets it done, plain and simple, no fuss.

Yep, I hear ya

I'm hearing many falling in love with their 243W all over again after shooting/hunting with all their other stuffs!

That cartridge is still near and dear after all those years

I appreciate you taking the time to share brother!

My first couple of years hunting deer when growing up was with a 30-30 my great grandfather gave me. Then, my father bought me an Interarms 243 one year for Christmas. I've probably killed more deer with that little rifle then all of my other 'deer' rifles combined, which would include 30-30, 22-250, 7mm-08 and 300 Win Mag. All ammo used was the cheap factory cup and core bullets in the 90-100 grain range. Nothing fancy at all, but then again fancy isn't needed to kill whitetails either! The last animal I shot with it was this past September on an Oklahoma antelope at 134 yards ... it was a bang flop afair!

The 243 is a great round for whitetail sized game.

I was just shooting my wife's rifle a couple days ago. It's a Rem. ADL bought back in the late 70's.

The rifle has been cleaned just with Hoppe's it's whole life and has an older Denver 3X9 Redfield. Has original factory stock , untouched, except for shortening and adding a pad.

With 40gr IMR4350 and 100gr. Hornaday bullets , from a cold clean barrel it put 5 shots less than quarter size at 100yds. I haven't checked it in quite a few years but it's still dead on at 100. Haven't moved the scope.

Both my son's and my daughter in law, shot their first deer with it. I really don't know how many deer and turkey it's taken. Plus coyotes and varmints...

I chronographed it for the first time the other day and was surprised. It was only getting 2800fps with Nosler factory and my handloads were slightly under that. I always thought it was running 2900fps-3000fps

It was doing about 3400fps with 55gr Winchester supremes.

Friend of mine has a 26" pre 64 Target rifle in .243.

It was getting 2900fps with Nosler factorys and 3600fps with 55gr Winchester supremes.

It's a great little cartridge ......

graybird and Sendero300,

Thanks guys from what I hear it sounds like a lot of fun....if he puts the bullet where it needs to go that's all that matters!

I appreciate you taking the time to share as it will give both him and I alot of confidence in the bush.

He's not a reloader so he'll be using Winchester 100gr Power-Points factory ammo...

Yo Squeeze ..... how's tricks?

A-lotta Sage advice above .....

I take my .243 Winchester to the UK quite a bit simply because that's what they're accostomed to and what I easily get put on my UK Firearms Permit almost every year (another story in itself). Like other rifles I own and an advantage with this chambering is that it's an easy cartridge to shoot & hit with well. I don't take it when I'm here on the Continent simply because it's illegal for large Cloven-Hoofed Game in many of the European countries where legislated; in many instances a 6.5mm minimum for such game (Gee, wonder why there's alot of 6.5x57, 6.5x55, 260 Rem., .257 Roberts, 7mm-08 & 7x57 reco's above, too? Hope I didn't omit another favorite).

No one in England or Scotland gives this cartridge a second thought for "Deer" and in Scotland the .270 Winchester & .243 Winchester are two of, if not the most popular chamberings you'll encounter. Fallow, Red, Sika Deer & Roe and the .243 Winchester notwithstanding the much smaller Roe handles all of them with aplomb. These Deer vary in their @ sizes but all can easily be compared to the standard-fare sized US Whitetail. I'm on a 85 grain Nosler Partition kick at the moment but the 85 grain Sierra HPBT Game Kings and Speer SPBT's have seen lots of duty as well but any good, brand name bullet within the 85 to 105 grain spectrum is a solid choice IMO.

quote:

It will kill them, but you have to make good shots (Duh?).

Makes-me-Laugh hit (pun intended) it just right (or the Nail on the Head) - Gee, you miss or plant one too far back/forward/up/down and you got Shit - you Shoot Straight - you Got Dead Deer, pretty much same-o with any reasonable common-sense Deer cartridge.

I get real twichy though when the Recoil Tolerance Level qualifications arise - makes me pay extra-close attention to who's doing the talking. Sadly, because often I find it a crutch for an inexperienced shooter who either has read one-too-many or too few copies of XXX hunting/rifle journal, never learned the basics or learned the basics and never followed through with them, developing bad habits or an outright excuse for poor shooting ability.

Now, to put those concerns aside; I'm a trusting, flexible kinda Guy so this may not be the case 100% of the time; but often enough to keep me from deciding not to take a nap during the discussion. There's lots of wiggle-room for .243 Win. (and .223 Remington, too) recoil tolerance levels. Older, Younger, Injuries, Disabilities; Physical Stature, Licensing & Cultural requirements, etc. all play a role. Especially, when the shooter is willing to invest the time & effort to ensuring they can shoot their selected cartridge to the level required to cleanly take game - that simple.

Having said all that mouthful I've had .243 Winchester 10X ring-shot Deer drop at the shot or do the 200 meter Greyhound dash before succumbing; just as with a .30/06 Sprg. or 375H&H. Just, sorta depends .....

Have fun with making your economical Savage/Stevens selection (nothing wrong with that picture); ultimately making a sound decision and practice, practice, practice .... !

quote:

I'd like to know how many folks here use a 243W for hunting deer?

Some swear by them and some swear at them... Big Grin

Bullet recommendations?

Just curious as I have no experience with the round.

The deer here are < 200 lbs. and shots inside 200 yds. will be most common...I have a friend that is a bit recoil sensitive and doesn't enjoy shooting my 30-06 or 270W ...

Based upon your criteria, it should do very well with just about any 100gr load that the rifle likes.

I used one from around '70 until around '89 with both factory and handloads. Couldn't tell how many critters bit the dust with it. It was given to me by my Pop and when he passed I sort of put it away for my daughter or grandsons to have some day. In the time since however I have acquired two others which I have shot and do use on occasion with equal success.

Good luck with your bud, I highly doubt he will have much if any issues with the choice. As mentioned putting the round where it counts is the key, and with the light recoil and decent bullets this should not be much of an issue.

quote:

Is there something MAGICAL about these smaller calibers being that they are driven pretty fast and using a fast-expanding bullet seem to just make these deer hit the dirt on impact?

I would say not all all - but rather people grossly over estimate what is required to kill a deer or any other animal for that matter. What was your first deer rifle? Mine was a 30-06! You cannot compensate for lack of experience with a magic bullet. I have two friends using the 243, I have a 7mm-08. It is all the same... any difference is very marginal around the edges.

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
I'd like to know how many folks here use a 243W for hunting deer?

Hey L-B, I've Killed a lot of Deer with a 243Win and find it a Marginal Caliber at best. You often have to wait or pass on shots that can be taken with more Adequate Cartridges.

I've used all the various Partitions from 85gr-100gr and a bunch of Bullets from 90gr, 95gr and 100grs for Killing Deer. I currently have 90gr Speer Hot-Cor bullets loaded for it and they have done as well as any of the rest in the 24cal for me.

The 70gr and 75gr Bullets make excellent stray Dog and coyote blasters. Very decisive on them.

I've not used the Speer 105gr RN Hot-Cor but a Processor I know swears by them. He claims they Kill as well as his 270Win.

quote:

The deer here are < 200 lbs. and shots inside 200 yds. will be most common...I have a friend that is a bit recoil sensitive and doesn't enjoy shooting my 30-06 or 270W ...

I'd recommend you have him pick up a box or two of the "Managed Recoil" Loads for the 30-06, or simply down-load 10 cases to 308Win levels and 10 to 30-30 levels. Since you Reload and since there is plenty of Load Data available for doing that in the Manuals, he could see how they shoot using your 30-06.

quote:

He's a lefty and we're thinking along the Savage/Stevens lines as it's pretty economical and a sure-shooter out of the box

Definitely ain't pretty but a darn good accurate tool for the job! ...

Great choice in Rifles which look just fine to me. Especially when viewing groups. The new Accu-Stock and Accu-Trigger have once again raised the accuracy Bar for all other manufacturers to try and meet.

If he can handle the 30-06 at 308Win levels, he would be much better off in the long run than with a Marginal 243Win.

Best of luck to your buddy.

Thanks Gents for all the comments I appreciate it

I'm a rifle nut and enjoy shooting an array of calibers...but my buddy will be a one-gun-do-it-aller

I shoot the 25-06, 270W, 7RM, 308W, & 30-06 and I bought by wifey a 243W but she hasn't hunted with it yet.

That said I have no experience with this chambering and all the input from you folks has given me some confidence in making this recommendation to him.

Since he'll be ONLY hunting deer with me I'm sure this will be a fine chambering for him using the factory ammo Winchester 100gr PP...

I'll start taking him to the range so he can get familiar with it right away.

I'm sure he's going to like it

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:

quote:

Is there something MAGICAL about these smaller calibers being that they are driven pretty fast and using a fast-expanding bullet seem to just make these deer hit the dirt on impact?

I would say not all all - but rather people grossly over estimate what is required to kill a deer or any other animal for that matter. What was your first deer rifle? Mine was a 30-06! You cannot compensate for lack of experience with a magic bullet. I have two friends using the 243, I have a 7mm-08. It is all the same... any difference is very marginal around the edges.

Well said

Yep, my first rifle was a 30-06 too and I love it still today!

Whether I'm shooting 180/165/150 grainers in it, shot-placement is always paramount!

In only three years of hunting my son and I have killed 29 trophy animals from African PG to rams,goats, and pigs...all one-shot kills and many DRT or short death-runs of under 40 yards! We're happy campers right now

Next week I'll be taking my 270W/130 grainers on an island axis deer hunt and this friend of mine will be accompanying me to another island, but will not be hunting this time...

On our next trip he'll be ready tho

L-B,
Sounds like you've made up your mind already but I'll toss my 2c into the pot. A 22LR is an adequate deer rifle WITHIN THE PROPER RANGE AND WITH PROPER BULLET PLACEMENT. A 243 will work fine too given proper range and bullet placement. What a larger caliber gives you is more leeway. Will the 243 work on deer? YES! Is it ideal for an inexperienced hunter? NO! In the hands of a patient, experienced hunter a 243 is great, but if someone rushes a shot or doesn't place their bullet correctly, you could have problems. I'm not saying a howitzer is a panacea, it just allows you more margin for error on those all too common less than ideal shots. I wouldn't go with anything less than a 7-08.

I have a .243 that I've used mainly for varmints with 55 grain and 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips with great success. The 70's have been used for very long distance varmint action in some of the more windy conditions. I'm shooting these out of a Rem 700 CDL and it's working out great. Groups have been very small with that 55 g. bullet using Varget.

I've used the 55 grains at 4050 fps for the taking of a couple of smaller mule deer bucks. The shots were around 275 and 170 yards and they went down and almost bounced. That velocity seems to be quite a factor.

I would think that a 243 with 70 grain rounds would work out wonderful for whitetails at those distances and hopefully he would find a shooter that prints those desired small groups.

Good luck

It continues to amaze me that some think tiny groups and speed somehow is the criteria that makes all the difference to compensate for the use of varmint bullets on deer.

Some people don't get it, and apparantly never will - that there are varmint bullets, then there are bullets designed to hold together better, which are usually heavy for caliber, and of course cant be driven to the smoking speeds of the light for caliber bullets.

Sure the varmint bullets will kill deer, but IMO it is irresponsible to use them for that purpose, and grossly irresponsible to recommend the same to others.

Just using 243 bullets designed for deer will improve your odds of success, and in general ignoring the speed demon types of folks and their silly advice is a good practice.

KB

Here in the UK the .243 win is one of the main calibres. It will drop anything from muntjac to red stag no problem.

In the UK there is no limit on the number of deer one may take providing they are in season, and some people take a lot of deer each year. A friend of mine works for the Forestry Commission, a government agency to manage woodland and he is employed to shoot only deer his cull target is around 200+ deer/year. He uses a .243 as does many of his colleagues. As a team of about 8 they are responsible for a cull of about 2000 deer from one forest. I'm slightly envious, but regardless there are some amateur stalkers that will exceed 50+ deer a year here in the UK of which a high proportion will swear by the .243.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

Sure the varmint bullets will kill deer, but IMO it is irresponsible to use them for that purpose, and grossly irresponsible to recommend the same to others.



KB

Kaboom Ye olde flock shooter!!!



On your opinion

"I'd like to know how many folks here use a 243W for hunting deer?"

I would too but the numbers wouldn't chage my experience, which has been quite good.


"Some swear by them and some swear at them... "

Yeah. Wonder why that is?

A "DRT" hit is pretty much limited to a central nervous system hit; head/spine, IME. With other hits they tend to run a few seconds and may go 30-60 yards before going to sleep on their feet.

In that, with simular hits I've not seen a bit of (average) difference no matter what I hit 'em with; .243, .270, 7 mag, .30-06, .35 Rem or an arrow. (I won't take a "Texas Heart Shot" again no matter what I'm shooting or shooting at, I don't want to clean up that mess no more!)


"Bullet recommendations?"

Any conventional game bullet around 100 grain seems to work fine; Hornady, Remington, Sierra, Noslers have all given equal performance for me. A 200# deer isn't cast iron so premium bullets are, sorta like, over kill. ?? (So is my .30-06 but I like it.)

I would not recommend varmint bullets for chest shots, but are perfectly adequate if shooting for the gamedealer where head/neck shots are required. Chest shots require the exposed lead type heads like corelokt etc, I personally use 100gn soft nose for everything foxes, deer, etc for both chest and head/neck shots.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
L-B,
Sounds like you've made up your mind already but I'll toss my 2c into the pot. A 22LR is an adequate deer rifle WITHIN THE PROPER RANGE AND WITH PROPER BULLET PLACEMENT. A 243 will work fine too given proper range and bullet placement. What a larger caliber gives you is more leeway. Will the 243 work on deer? YES! Is it ideal for an inexperienced hunter? NO! In the hands of a patient, experienced hunter a 243 is great, but if someone rushes a shot or doesn't place their bullet correctly, you could have problems. I'm not saying a howitzer is a panacea, it just allows you more margin for error on those all too common less than ideal shots. I wouldn't go with anything less than a 7-08.

BT...I hear ya and point well taken

I'll make sure he gets alot of QUALITY trigger time on the bench at first teaching him technique...Then get him off the bench and practice practice practice from field positions.

I am confident he'll be ready for the next deer hunt in the near future

I never used a 243 on a deer. I only wever owned one and built another. I am not a 243 fan. It is a great cartidge but not versatile enough for me.

I have carried only a 257 Roberts and Improved or a 30-06 for deer; actually deer and PA Black Bear. I only ever shot a deer or bear with 30-06. I never saw one when carrying the Robert(s). I did shoot a deer in GA with a 12 gauge slug in a shotgun only area.

The 243 used to be a very very popular choice for deer around here. It was THE choice for women and kids. Too many choices and lack of deer has put the 243 way down the list. The 7mm-08 put a bit of a hurt on it, but a generally lack of hunting excitement hurt it too.

I have seen many dead deer run up to 100 yds to the nearest cover to drop dead in. A 30-06 usually leaves a good blood trail. I have friends who hunt and kill deer with 223's and Hornets. I helped track a 223 shot deer that was bleeding profusely- a blood trail over 12" wide that looked like someone spilled red paint. That deer was dead on the shot but didn't know it. Instinct carried it about 100 yards tro the edge of the woods. That was a big 11 point, well over 200 pounds. I shot a 6 point a few years ago with a 30-06. It was a double lung shot; it looked like someone ran with two cans of red spray paint, spraying on both sides. That deer went 60 yds to the nearest cover and died. He did fall a few times enroute.

It usually takes longer to get to the spot where you shot the deer than to get from that spot to the deer unless it was a non-fatal, in other words a crippling type shot, i.e. lost deer.

I hate to add this but may as well. I have a friend who swears by a 223 with 69 gn Sierra MatchKings for deer. He shoots them from 0-300 and they are DRT. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.

A 243 is a good deer gun, just not mine.

Thanks for sharing I appreciate it

I've killed maybe a dozen deer with the 70 grain NBT at 3950-60 fps. Some were whitetails and some were mulies. Some were close and some were far, the furthest being about 450 yds. That fast little bullet killed deer quicker than the 150 NBT out of my 7RM. All shots were broadside in the chest and none required a second shot.

Bobby B.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby B.:
I've killed maybe a dozen deer with the 70 grain NBT at 3950-60 fps. Some were whitetails and some were mulies. Some were close and some were far, the furthest being about 450 yds. That fast little bullet killed deer quicker than the 150 NBT out of my 7RM. All shots were broadside in the chest and none required a second shot.

Bobby B.

Bobby B.

Interesting experiences that you've had there. I am assuming those deer were taken with a .243; and that is impressive velocity. I'm currently getting 3770 fps average out of my 243 using the 70 g. NBT with Varget and hitting the max pressures at that point. Maybe my shooter is flat maxed out there.

I would be interested in hearing about the loads that you have developed for your shooter to reach those levels. How is the accuracy at those speeds? I'm getting very good groups with my .243 and the interesting thing, and a great thing, is that the point of impact for the 55 grain NBT and the 70 grain NBT is the same to about 200 yards and then there is some separation between the two.

I've done some interesting reading from P.O. Ackley on the use of small caliber high velocity loads on deer size animals. His comments would ignite a forest fire on this forum with the "ELK LOOKERS" and his tag alongs. He was a gunsmith in Salt Lake City that was the developer of the Ackeley modified cartridges. He has since past away and his loading and testing manuals(2) are out of print. I got lucky and picked up both of them a while ago.

PM me if you get a moment with your load data.

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby B.:
I've killed maybe a dozen deer with the 70 grain NBT at 3950-60 fps. Some were whitetails and some were mulies. Some were close and some were far, the furthest being about 450 yds. That fast little bullet killed deer quicker than the 150 NBT out of my 7RM. All shots were broadside in the chest and none required a second shot.

Bobby B.

Bobby,

Could you tell me if the meat damage was excessive, i.e., bloodshot meat coming from that 70gr NBT?

How EXPLOSIVE is that bullet inside 100 yards?

Thanks!

70 NBT is not intended for deer and at that velocity is just going to cause you grief. That is just ASKING to lose game. If you are going to use the .243 then you have a moral obligation to use a bullet designed for deer hunting.

Please take a look:
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-...243_caliber_plot.jpg

Teancum,

The cartridge was not a .243 Winchester per se but a 6mm cartridge I had 'designed'. The intent of my post was to offer a certain point of view based on my own actual experiences.

Ackley experimented with many things others were merely content to theorize about. His use of the Swift on culling burros (or donkies or whatever they were I can't recall) was interesting to say the least. His works had a strong impact on me some 25 years ago.

I always wanted to shoot a moose with my hotrod 6mm and that little 70 grain NBT but there was never a moose around when I had that rifle with me.

Late Bloomer, I can't recall the details regarding the degree of bloodshot meat that hot 70 grainer produced, maybe because it really didn't matter to me as it was mostly in the ribs area which I never eat. As for the explosiveness, I do recall there were many complete pass throughs on the deer. Of course that isn't saying much as the rib portion of the chest on a deer does not offer very stout resistance.

Needless to say, it proved to be an excellent round for killing coyotes and antelope.

Bobby B.

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby B.:
I've killed maybe a dozen deer with the 70 grain NBT at 3950-60 fps. Some were whitetails and some were mulies. Some were close and some were far, the furthest being about 450 yds. That fast little bullet killed deer quicker than the 150 NBT out of my 7RM. All shots were broadside in the chest and none required a second shot.

Bobby B.

Bobby,

Could you tell me if the meat damage was excessive, i.e., bloodshot meat coming from that 70gr NBT?

How EXPLOSIVE is that bullet inside 100 yards?

Thanks!

Excellent question and one that most people would not think to ask.

I've shot smaller mule deer with a .243 using 55 grain NBT's and some mule deer with a .223 using 40 grain NBT's. Both velocities were either just over or just under 4000 fps.

I shot one deer head-on with the .243 in the brisket at 170 yards and the front of the ribcage did have extensive bloodshot meat in it. Last year I shot a mule deer buck with that .223 load at around 275 yards in the ribs and the bullet was a complete pass through. There was again a fair amount of bloodshot meat loss on the ribs but, like Bobby B, I don't eat the ribs or rib meat. I've never been a big rib eater of wild game but that could be different with elk, sheep, or moose.

The performance, in the field, of these high velocity small caliber loads is very impressive. From my experience a small caliber without the higher velocities is no where near as effective and handloading is the only way to reach those high velocities.

Most criticisms of this approach have either neither done it themselves or seen it done in the field. Yet they wax philosophical on it's merits. Pitiful and dangerous.

Your mates .243 will be fine as long as he sticks with those 100 grain factorys.

I would like to point out that the Stevens is quite light and has a 22" barrel. It may add to his perception of increased recoil.

(If you can) Go for a slightly heavier rifle and longer barrel.

Someone mentioned the 7mm-08. I have a similar 7x57 and recoil is only slightly heavier that the .243. A good second hand rifle in these calibres may also be an option.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby B.:
I've killed maybe a dozen deer with the 70 grain NBT at 3950-60 fps. Some were whitetails and some were mulies. Some were close and some were far, the furthest being about 450 yds. That fast little bullet killed deer quicker than the 150 NBT out of my 7RM. All shots were broadside in the chest and none required a second shot.

Bobby B.

Bobby,

Could you tell me if the meat damage was excessive, i.e., bloodshot meat coming from that 70gr NBT?

How EXPLOSIVE is that bullet inside 100 yards?

Thanks!

Excellent question and one that most people would not think to ask.

I've shot -- blahh blahh, etc.

Most criticisms of this approach have either neither done it themselves or seen it done in the field. Yet they wax philosophical on it's merits. Pitiful and dangerous.

Maybe a good question, maybe an obvious answer - which is why maybe the question wasn't asked before. Try it on a gallon milk jug filled with water. When I tried it, the results looked spectacular - spray exploding in a mist, but on inspection of what I could find of the back side of the jug showed no evidence that the bullet exited in any way, not even small fragments, but merely exploded.

You can also see the results of these miricle varmint bullets on a large cardboard box. Set up your target on the box, and see what happens to the bullet by inspecting the back of the box. The time I tried it showed nothing but a spray of tiny particles of lead, basically turning the inside of the box grey, and nothing bigger than dust from the jacket, and very little penetration out the back of the box - certainly no big pieces. I can certainly see why the meat is no good, bloodshot or not, because it would be a good way to get lead poisioning by consuming lead dust. Meat like that isn't even fit to feed to a dog.

Too bad that you didn't answer the question that was asked, but instead continued with your dogma.

Criticism of your approach may legitimately come from those who would not stoop to the use of bullets which are not designed for the task asked of them. Perhaps others have seen, as I have seen, some of the results of the proponants of neck and head shots, and high velocity varmint loads on deer. It's disgustingly amusing how the talk from guys like you differs from the evidence seen in the field, and how the silence and excuses occurs when there are actual witnesses.

I can think of lots of adjectives to attach to this. I don't see how you come up with the word dangerous. How can it be dangerous to merely tell the truth? I wouldn't use that word to describe the use of varmint bullets on deer. I would call it pitiful, and disgusting, and stupid, and denial, and many other similar words.

KB

I have no understanding of Klabueyes (sp?) intent of his response. To clarify, are you suggesting what I personally witnessed does not agree with what you personally witnessed? If so, please explain the differences.

Bobby B.