I've used the .243 over the years and never had any problems with taking deer with the cartridge. I own a .243 but have never been a big fan of the cartridge and never bothered to reload for it.

The 100gr Remington factory corelokt ammo have always done a great job for me.

Terry

243 is fine.

This question kinda popped into my mind > Would a deer know wether he is being hit with a 100 grain bullet from a .243 or a .257 Roberts??? Now you know nobody will bad mouth the Roberts. roger

I didn't have any trouble taking deer with my 243 either, but I always used the 100 gr bullets for the task. Those tests I mentioned were with varmint bullets on targets and milk jugs, not deer. I don't shoot deer with varmint bullets. The 243 isn't my favorite deer cartridge, but I have no problem with it. Nowadays, I would prefer a 260 over a 243. When I owned a 243 I really enjoyed shooting it, but I sort of went past that stage and haven't gone back. It just goes against common sense IMO to take a perfectly adequate cartridge and rifle and handicap it by deliberately choosing the wrong bullet for the game hunted.

As far as reconciling with Bobby, there's no point. I frankly don't care what someone says his experience is shooting deer with varmint bullets. IMO the fact that he admits it is enough said. I'm quite sure the varmint 243 bullets will kill deer plenty dead. Probably a buffalo could be killed with the same bullet if hit right, but obviously that's meaningless. I just don't see why someone would shoot deer with varmint bullets when there are perfectly good bullets for the 243 designed for deer size game. I say that if a guy wants to pull a stunt, shoot something that fights back or bites with a 243 varmint bullet. I'll bet that will cut the BS real quickly.

Also, I've seen those who have so much misplaced confidence in their rifles - true believers - based on how well they can shoot it, and its accuracy, and mild recoil, etc. that they are just beyond belief that it can fail with less than a perfect shot. I've seen these guys in disbelief that their deer has run off, wounded, never to be seen again. Then the mild excuses start, talk about shot placment, and then silence, and changing the subject, but they remain true believers nonetheless.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
He's not a reloader so he'll be using Winchester 100gr Power-Points factory ammo...

Regardless of the Varmint bullet versus deer sized bullet contest. ...

I think the original poster already stated the ammo decision has already been made.

And, that decision will kill a deer very dead!!!

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
He's not a reloader so he'll be using Winchester 100gr Power-Points factory ammo...

Regardless of the Varmint bullet versus deer sized bullet contest. ...

I think the original poster already stated the ammo decision has already been made.

And, that decision will kill a deer very dead!!!

Bingo

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby B.:
I've killed maybe a dozen deer with the 70 grain NBT ...

Hey Bobby, Why did you select that Bullet for Deer?

Everyone knows teenScum is the resident board know-nothing Liar idiot. But I really don't understand why you would select a Varmint Bullet in a Marginal Cartridge for Deer. Just makes no sense.

Hot Core,

In truth, I didn't really select that bullet for deer. The rifle was originally built to be my primary coyote gun and also to be used on antelope. Once I saw what it did to these two animals, I was interested in what it would do to deer.

I should also add that it's ability to penetrate steel gongs at 100 and 200 yds was startling, much greater penetration than anything else we shot the gongs with. However, I should also add that it would not knockdown the 500 meter ram.

Bobby B.

I didn't consider the situation of a custom rifle with a slower twist. Putting such a rifle in service as a deer rifle, using the lighter bullets it shoots best - I can see that.

Good answer Bobby to my question of why. Apparantly it works for you, which is great. I would choose the heaviest bullet that would work with the twist rate of the rifle, say 80-90 gr.

Getting in the middle of Teancum and Hotcore rivalry (or love affair), can become testy. It may appear that some of my words are directed toward you, when really the aim is in another direction.

That's why Teancum calls me flock shooter - because of the collateral damage.

KB

Kabluewy,

No harm done.

The barrel was a Ron Smith gaintwist. Sorry but I can't recall either the start rate or the final twist rate other than it was what Ron recommended for the 70 grain NBT.

All the best to everyone.

Bobby B.

Those gain twist barrels have always interested me, but your comment is the first I've seen on the actual use of one.

The bullet starting out with no rotation, suddenly engaging the rifling at 10" twist never made as much sense to me as the gain twist. However the standard barrels are what are commonly used and readily available - I figured because they are easier to make, not necessarily because the work better.

KB

quote:

My mother uses one extensively and I've killed a few with it. It will kill them, but you have to make good shots (duh). The thing is, I've seen deer double-lung shot with it run hundreds of yards. I am not convinced that it is ideal. I would say that you would be much better off with a .257 Roberts, .260 Remington, 6.5 x 55, 7x57, or 7mm-08. All of those have very little kick and kill much more effectively IMHO.

I agree, the 360 is a far bette game rifle w/ little more recoil. I like the 243 as a long range varminter but for deer size game, I like bigger bullets. The 120gr-140gr 6.5s are great killers.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
The bullet starting out with no rotation, suddenly engaging the rifling at 10" twist never made as much sense to me as the gain twist. However the standard barrels are what are commonly used and readily available - I figured because they are easier to make, not necessarily because the work better.

KB

I've wondered the same thing.....

1. the bullet does in fact accelerate as it starts at 0 FPS and accelerates to 3,000 FPS and the twist causing the RPMs follows the acceleration of the linear seed of the bullet.

2. There is no data (that I'm aware of) that shows gain twist to be better in any way!

Gain twist seems like a good thing, at least, until it's tested...

quote:

I'd like to know how many folks here use a 243W for hunting deer?

Once upon a time in the UK:

Classic deer stalking was all about hill red deer shot with three "classic" cartridges. The 303 British, the 6.5mm x 54, the Holland and Holland 240 Apex. With the other two widely used 7mm size cartridges being the 280 Ross with a 160 grain and the 275 Rigby (aka 7 x 57) with a 140 grain bullet.

Fallow deer were considered "park deer" and often as not shot at close range with something like a 300 Sherwood.

Roe deer were considered...well...vermin! And shot with anything or on deer or game bird drives (as opportunity targets) with shot guns.

Muntjac deer were not yet "invented"!

The 240 Apex (and the later 244 Holland Magnum) was a "one load" cartridge. 100 grain bullet at about 2,800fps in the Apex and the same bullet at 3,100 in the 244 Magnum.

The equivalent of a standard 243 Winchester loading and a little less than the 6mm Remington 100 grain bullet loading. The case of the 240 Apex? Pretty much what Weatherby "bastardised" (or "improved") as his 240 Magnum.

The 300 Sherwood was a 140 grain bullet of 30 calibre at about 1,400fps.

So is 243 Winchester a good deer cartridge? It depends. Holland's 240 Apex was one of those "love it or hate it" cartridges.

Some rifles (as in the hunter in US speak) swore by it as being a magic killer compared to the slower 2,450fps of the 303 and the 6.5mm x 54.

Some stalkers (the guide in US speak) swore at it as marginal on big red stags in rut UNLESS and ideally placed strike was achieved.

You take your choice. But...you seldom heard the old stalkers tell tales of big red stags needing more than one shot with the 303 British but you did here them tell tales of big red stags needed two, three or even a magazine full of 240 Apex.

A friend had a 244 Holland Magnum by Lloyd when new. He took it back as useless when the one and only time he used it he needed no less than SIX rounds to drop a big red stag. All bullets being well placed strikes.

He went back to his old 303 British!

It might have velocity and when it came out at 2,800fps the Apex was sensational for its time in that respect.

But what it only ever had was a 100 grain "pill" and that is if not well placed (and even sometimes despite that) sometimes just not a large enough dose of medicine.

The other velocity sensation of before World War I the 280 Ross of course had it both. Very similar to the 280 Remington in performance. Velocity of 2,800 and a 160 grains bullet weight.

It was by far a better deer stalking machine (I had one once) than ever the 240 Apex duse to its bullet weight.

Hey Bobby, I understand your reasoning. Did you get Exits with them?

I was carrying some 120gr B-Tips(back in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation of them) for stray dogs and coyotes in a 7mm-08. I saw a similar thing as you did and eventually tried them on a few Deer(maybe a box full). Sending the Bullet in behind the near shoulder, so it went into the off-side shoulder resulted in Exits.

Having Exits with the 120gr B-Tip at 7mm-08 velocities surprised me. Also the HUGE amount of Blood-shot meat, even on the Entrance side. I'm sure I didn't use it on a real WHOPPER Trophy Buck. And I had to pass on a good number of shots with Deer in the Beans, Corn and Cotton that I could have taken with Partitions.

There are better Bullets for Deer than a 120gr B-Tip and I really doubt I'd ever try a 70gr B-Tip on Deer. But, best of luck to you.

Hot Core,

Yes, there were exits. What percent at what range I don't recall. It's been awhile since I've used this cartridge on anything. I shot it alot and went through 2, maybe 3, barrels. The barrels were 27.5" if I recall correctly. Honestly, what I remember best was; it killed deer really, really well, it penetrated steel out to 200 yds really, really well, and, it wouldn't knock over the 500 yard ram.

Not trying to be vague, it's just that I'm working off of memory. I still have a number of cases and would be happy to mail one to you if you're interested.

Bobby B.

It’s interesting how a “killing deer with a 22” topic can spill over to a 6mm topic.

243 on deer = Overkill

I use a 6mm BR.

Killed them w/70 TNTs, 105 Amax, and 95 Ballistic Tip, in 243, killed w/100 Partition, 85 Sierra BTHP GK, and a nice hog w/an 85 XBT.

For me, the 243 and 85 TSX (now loaded by Federal and I believe Corbon, and perhaps another, or one in the works) is likely VERY much the EQUAL in deer killing as a 260.

I use the 260 and 6.5x55 a good bit, left 708s awhile back as they were more recoil and killed the same. That said, last year my two deer kills were 6BR and 95 Ballistic Tips.

My fav 6mm/243 bullets for deer are:

85 TSX
95 Ballistic Tip
90 Swift SSII

Many others will do fine, as the 85 SGK above, and the 87 Hornady SP/HP, (NOT V-max), 90 BT, 90 Etip, 95 PT, various 100s, and Speers 105.

Lots of choices.

Not to beat a dead horse, but ......to me, SHOT PLACEMENT is where it's at.

Using a rifle that the operator has confidence and has range time that instills that because its shootable, allows placing a good bullet thru vitals.

If one wants to shoot a fast shot any angle and not use good placement, and or the better bullets, and is not willing on occasion to stall the shot for a better presentation/or pass altogether, than a 338 Federal w/185-210s might be a good solution to typical distances.

That said, I honestly do not believe if you use one of the above 'fav 3' bullets in a 243/6mm, that a hunter will wound/lose a deer.

Now about recoil, if one uses 120 gr bullets in a 260 vs. say 100 gr in a 243, the recoil is not alot different. Bump it to 140, or say use a 7/08 w/140 and things change more.

243 ammo is much easier to find in a jam than 260, 250-3000, or 257 Roberts, all nice deer rounds.

Lastly, a 25-06 BDL 700 I sighted for a bud's dad, using 120 factory recoiled to me more like a 243, though the BLAST was far more, and yes I use plugs and muffs, but sensitive perhaps due to tinnitus.

Lots of ways to skin a .....deer

6.5BR...

Thanks for keeping it real brother and answering my simple question...

6.5BR +1

Is it OK to change one's mind just a little bit, after reading such a good post from 6.5BR?
But of course he did mention that his favorite bullets are 85gr TSX and 90gr Swift.
KB

I am not particularly recoil sensitive so I don't have a use for the .243. I like 7mm, because I know it will go through both shoulders at any distance I can hit at.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby B.:
Not trying to be vague, it's just that I'm working off of memory. I still have a number of cases and would be happy to mail one to you if you're interested. ...

Memory fading? Me too. Thanks for the offer, but I have enough 243Win cases to last me out. May end up selling it to a buddy with a shoulder problem since the recoil is near nonexistant.

Just noticed you are in Canada. I've not been there but hear you all have some true WHOPPER Trophy class Deer.

What are you using on the Deer now?

Hot Core,

The case I was offering is not a 243 Win case, it's a bastardization of my own design. An extra long 243 case of sorts.

Both Alberta and Saskatchewan provide excellent opportunities for WHOPPER deer, particularly whitetail. As of late, mostly I use my 7RM for deer (and everything else), however I'm in the middle of having a 260 Rem built just for deer and Metallic Silhouette.

Bobby B.

Howzit Bradda Ro,

Heres some deer from this season taken with a 6x47 Lapua and 105 gr Hornady A-Max.





The 115 bergers just came in and are shooting awesome so gonna try those out. With that being said have killed many animals including deer with a 243 Win given the situation your friend is in id say go for it as I know you will make sure he knows all about shot placement etc. Ive had goodluck with the 95 gr Nosler BST in my 243's with factory barrels due to the twist.

Take care my Bradda!

Aloha No,

Bradda Dom

Cumblewawad is a waste of space and a load his momma should have swallowed. What he don't know would fill volumes.

Idiot knows no bounds.


What a phucking tool +P that flock shooting, no experience with anything shit bird is.

Ryan, my first deer was killed w/a 7mm RM, and it was my last w/that round. DESTROYED on shoulder when the old Speer manual book load I tried duplicating 280 speeds, actually was later revised w/a different rifle as it was hot, and the 145 BTSP at 30 paces BLEW.....literally nothing to salvage.

I guess one can run an All copper slug and eat up to the bullet holes, but I often just lung shoot deer saving meat myself. Others I am sure want to anchor them, and I do too sometimes, just do it with spine or neck shots when things are right. My last 2 were shot in the neck on one, the lungs on the other, the 95 BT did it's job, one DRT, the other w/in a few strides from POI.

When I get time to shoot, I like shooting alot more rounds than I can put thru a larger chambering rifle, and have come to know, love, and respect the 'little rounds' like the 6mm BR and 7mmBR having hunted exclusively during several deer seasons at times, and they never let me down when I did my part. Not for everyone, or every situation, but when you are in no hurry and like to thread your shot thru vitals, most any reasonable round will do the deer.

If I were on an expensive hunt, or had ltd. time, I might not choose a say 6mmBR, but if that is what I had in hand, I would NOT hesitate on anything this side of an elk/moose if I can get shot placement with a good bullet up to 400 yds. That's the confidence I have in what shot placement w/good bullets can do even in 24 caliber.

Maybe someday I might change my mind, but I have not had lost an animal fairly hit w/any 6mm round. Until then I will use them, as I will other 6.5s and I do have a little history w/7-08. Above those, if I want more gun I am jumping into a 338/06, 9.3, or 358W/350 RM, but that's jut MY preference.

Can't knock a 7 RM as it'll rock WAY out yonder w/160-162s at 3,000+, or if you prefer even higher BC bullets maybe a 180 Berger, or lighter, various 140s though MY experience showed a marked preference for 150-162s in the 2 rifles I loaded for, so I gave up on the 140 clasee.

Ok, sorry to get off topic here.

I think the main thing for any hunter is to get enough range time to learn how to HIT vitals w/their rifle and get proficient to do it off the bags when out in a field situation. Practice helps you learn that, and the BR rounds allowed me much more of that, much as rimfire and airguns teach many trigger control and sight control/follow thru.

Master your shooting technique and the rest usually takes care of itself.

BTW, the deer above is really nice, enjoyed the pics. 105 Amax killed my furthest deer, right at a lasered 400 yds, double lunged, only went 20 or so yds and struggled at that....not bad for 28.5 grains of powder

quote:

Originally posted by Ketchikan:
Cumblewawad is a waste of space and a load his momma should have swallowed. What he don't know would fill volumes.

Idiot knows no bounds.


What a phucking tool +P that flock shooting, no experience with anything shit bird is.

Ketch-um-if-he-can,
I'm wondering where you spent your 20+ years of incarceration in order to develop such a foul mind, and means and choice of self-expression?

Then again, it is possible that you have cleaned up somewhat, and we are seeing your best behavior.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Ketchikan:
Cumblewawad is a waste of space and a load his momma should have swallowed. What he don't know would fill volumes.

Idiot knows no bounds.


What a phucking tool +P that flock shooting, no experience with anything shit bird is.

For a minute there I thought you were addressing your comments to my favorite hunting buddy Hotsh#t.

What purpose is served with these vulgar personal attacks? It accomplishes nothing productive.

Bobby B.

Ultramag-

Hey Bradda nice to hear from you and congrats!

I'll give you a call before I go over on May 10

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby B.:
What purpose is served with these vulgar personal attacks? It accomplishes nothing productive.

Bobby B.

Kinda strange ain't it? Both Ketchup-if-he-can and Teancum are prone to it, which is the primary reason I have no respect for either one. They might have something useful to say, but ole Ketchup-can especially is vulgar, nasty and foul.

These guys represent a certain personality that is that type, who for the most part I manage to avoid.

I first noticed this loathsome stuff out of the two of them in a thread about the 223 and deer hunting. It got pretty nasty, but it became clear that out-nastying these two is practically impossible. They seem just numb to it, and exchanging nasty insults with them actually encourages them, as though they like it.

They can be so bad as to disgust a maggot. Why they do it? I certainly don't know for sure, because I can't really understand that kind of thinking. Just guessing - from "if it walks like a duck", or "where there's smoke there's fire" philosophy, it's most likely because these two are fine examples of really nasty minded guys, who think winning through personal attacts is "productive". Most likely it's just that simple, or "productive" has a different meaning to them compared to its common meaning, or they don't care whether it's "productive" or not - nasty having more value than nice.

KB

I just shot a deer last season with a .243. Performace was just as good as a .280 as far as blood trail and distance the deer ran.

However, bullet weight means nothing. Bullet type is the more important factor. I used a Barnes 80 grain TSX tipped.

If your looking for a reasonably priced .243 in a lefty, look at Tikka's. Way better gun, trigger, and accuracy for the price than a Savage, IMO

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cline:
Bullet type is the more important factor.

There are at least five .243 bullets now without any lead, all under 100 grs, which are not varmint type bullets:

http://www.grafs.com/retail/ca...duct/productId/11864

http://www.grafs.com/retail/ca...oduct/productId/9600

http://www.grafs.com/retail/ca...product/productId/61

http://www.grafs.com/retail/ca...roduct/productId/419

http://www.grafs.com/retail/ca...roduct/productId/420

When I was shooting a 243, this type of bullet was not available, or at least I don't remember considering them. If I had a 243 now, I would certainly use them.

KB

KC and KB,

Thank you very much this info is very helpful

Ive seen many whitetails taken with the .243 win., Ive also tracked and hunted many,I took one away from my Dad and gave him my favorite whitetail hammer at the time a mod 100 in .308, I never had to hunt track another deer for him BUT we were using wrong bullets and at less than 50 yards they were icepicking the deer. Placement and bullet and the .243 is fine. I use Hornadys 95 gr SST's with excellent results now.

Lately I've been using SST's in 6.5, 7mm, 308, and 338, and like them. They have all been accurate, but so far the only deer I've taken with them is with the 338. I agree that you most likely don't have to worry about icepicking with these bullets.

KB

I agree.

A .243 and a fast stepping 55 grain NBT is a deer slayer supreme

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
I wouldn't go with anything less than a 7-08.

What's a .243, but a 6-08?? 1mm difference. I was
an inexperienced hunter when getting my first deer
with a lowly .22-250........bang, flop. As said
before, bullet placement, bullet placement, bullet
placement!



And from the sound of things, Late-Bloomer's
friend has a very good mentor to steer him in
the correct way for bullet placement!

Terry,

Re: 100 RP factory, I shot them in past w/good accuracy, but chrono showed in the 2700s w/20" bbl, far less than expected. Considering I get 2870 in a 6BR w/95 BTs, I think a good reload can give much better speeds than the box of ammo was using.....

It 'might' make a different on a longer shot if the ammo is 'on par' and at spec or not. Not a big difference, but 3000-3100+ is doable in a 22 or greater length bbl w/modern powders. Think SLOW powders...I used ALOT of IMR4350 for 70-100s but other newer SLOWER powders per Nosler's book makes rounds like the 243 and 6mm reach newer levels of performance that might be useful.

Got a buddy who uses the Nosler BT bullets out of a 6mm Rem and he swears by it for the Blacktails around here.
IIRC he's about 50/50 on passthrus.
But he is an exceptional shot and he puts em where they count every time.
Myself I have been using the 243 WIn and a 95 Gr NPT since 76 it works for me.