quote:

Originally posted by pattersonj11:

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:

quote:

Originally posted by pattersonj11:
We have a pair of 30-06's, a 30-30, and a pair of .243's in the safe between me and my Dad. The .243's get carried for whitetails the majority of the time. I was shooting my 30-06 last year and lost 3/6 deer with it. People can doubt the shot placement if they like...but every deer I pulled the trigger on last year hit the ground. I had a huge problem with them getting up after they had been down for a decent amount of time.

I have now reverted back to the .243. I have lost a deer here and there with it, but never on a 50% rate. Also, it is important to state that I have lost these deer (2) over a period of 14 years. I started using PMC 100 grain bullets because both the rifles will shoot sub-moa with those for some reason, now that they can't be found easily, I use 100 gr federals and Dad uses 80 gr PMC's. I can now shoot roughly 1.5" with the federals but the other gun still shoots MOA with lighter bullets. As far as not leaving an exit hole...I have only had that happen once. I shot a large bodied deer in the left side of the chest and found the bullet in the hide after it tore through the right side ham. I could be wrong, but I don't think the .30-06 would have done any better on that one. It has more surface area and more friction as a result to slow it down.

Some deer are just built stronger in my opinion. I can't recall tracking a deer for Dad in recent years, they all drop. My shots are placed just as good if not better, and I have to track a lot of mine, although usually not that far. Could be the increased speed in the 80 grainers? Anyway...like I said, some deer are just in it to win it. They would run if shot with a 50bmg. Others are gonna go down with a .17hmr. Had a guy tell me once that a deer I shot was "running dead". I don't have the science to support it, but I've seen more than one deer go 50-60 yards with a disintegrated heart.

Anyone else notice an excess in meat destruction with the .243's? I cant recall a time when we were able to save both shoulders except for a couple deer shot in the neck. The 30-06 seems to cause less damage to the shoulder area when aiming behind the shoulder.

Also...it is very nice to carry a lightweight rifle instead of the heavy BAR 30-06. '

I would like to shoot some of these nuisance hogs that are supposed to be problematic throughout a lot of the South. If I do, I will either take the .243...or the 9mm Para if on one of the dog hunts. Just my opinions.


I would really like to hear more on this discussion. The .243 debate is my favorite topic these days.

You lost 3 of 6 deer and you are blaming it on the cartridge?

I knew someone would throw that up, which is why I covered the issue originally. Anyway, yes, after consideration, I think the only blame can be the projectile. I did find out later in the year that the casings were split at the neck...but I don't think that would present a large issue.

Although bad shot placement will surely be your argument...I find it hard to believe that bad shots dropped all three deer. One was at 210 yds, another at roughly 100 yds, and the other was at 4 yds. Yes 12 feet. I've never seen a deer hit the ground with a "bad" shot. Heck, a ton of them run even with a "great" shot.

I take the time to analyze shots on recovery and try to relate the actions of the deer to where the shot was. Two of these deer had body language similar to a spine/head shot deer in that they collapsed with some kicking. The other deer tumbled down a hill for a good ways before rolling out of the lane and into the woods.

Neither buck had a blood trail sufficient enough to indicate a bullet exit; however, that is not fact, and just an opinion. On the doe...I have no idea about that one. There was enough blood in the woods to paint a barn. We trailed it for over 200 yards until the blood just quit.

In conclusion, after reading body language after the shot, and blood findings, the evidence tells me that the projectile failed.

I am extremely interested in an alternative conclusion from your perspective taking the same evidence into consideration.

Thanks for replying.

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Originally posted by Jarrod:


What bullet were you shooting?

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Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
"I did find out later in the year that the casings were split at the neck...but I don't think that would present a large issue. "

Every split neck I've ever had open my group signifantly; sounds even more like bad hits to me.

Your observation about the "projectile" counts too, an inappropriate bullet for the game is a bad choice if it's shot from a .243, .30-06 or .375.

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Originally posted by Atkinson:
The secret to using ANY caliber is to know its limitations and your limitations and you will do fine even with a 22 L.R. and I have killed many deer with that caliber.

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Originally posted by pattersonj11:

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Originally posted by Jarrod:


What bullet were you shooting?

The ammunition was Winchester Powerpoints 150gr.

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Originally posted by Jarrod:

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Originally posted by pattersonj11:

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Originally posted by Jarrod:


What bullet were you shooting?

The ammunition was Winchester Powerpoints 150gr.

If you put powerpoints out of a 30-06 in the vitals of a deer then you would have a dead deer. If it didn't kill him then yes it was placement and not the cartridge.
Knock his transfer case out (through both shoulders) and no tracking required

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:

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Originally posted by pattersonj11:

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Originally posted by Jarrod:


What bullet were you shooting?

The ammunition was Winchester Powerpoints 150gr.

If you put powerpoints out of a 30-06 in the vitals of a deer then you would have a dead deer. If it didn't kill him then yes it was placement and not the cartridge.
Knock his transfer case out (through both shoulders) and no tracking required

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Originally posted by DJM:

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Originally posted by Jarrod:

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Originally posted by pattersonj11:

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:


What bullet were you shooting?

The ammunition was Winchester Powerpoints 150gr.

If you put powerpoints out of a 30-06 in the vitals of a deer then you would have a dead deer. If it didn't kill him then yes it was placement and not the cartridge.
Knock his transfer case out (through both shoulders) and no tracking required

I guess they don't have any Sika in Kentucky

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
I guess everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Finn must think that the 30/30 is inadequate for deer also

After all, the 170 grain 30/30 load has only 1,873 ft-lbf of energy while the 105 grain 243 load has 2,080 ft-lbf.

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For one reason they are not on a 10 day hunt, most are shot at fairly close range from pickups or out the kitchen window while the elk eat off there haystack, or they just pack the gun horseback every day while checking cows or fence and when they jump a elk or deer out they step off the horse, tie him up and kill the animal, and then go about their business and come back and get it later..No need for heavy recoiling rifles, they shoot good and have been raised hunting and most only own one rifle. It is just a part of their every day life.