I am thinking of building a light rifle for deer in either caliber. I've looked over the ballistic charts and see that the Roberts definitely has the Savage beat by a 100-150 fps but I was wondering if any of you have field experience with both and if you noticed much difference in effect on deer-size game. For some reason I keep coming back to the 250 Savage partly because I think it's a slick looking round. Bullets choices I was thinking of staying between 87 - 100 grain, hoping to stay close to 3000 fps. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Only an opinion but with 100 grain bullets the difference is too small for most people or animals to tell the difference. If absolute velocity is your benchmark then Bob wins, but that is truly of small importance. Ballistics tables never killed anything, bullets properly placed do that.

I have one of each, .250 in a Rem 700, Bob in a #1. Bob would be my choice for long range varmint plinking due to twist issues, shooting the 85 BT around the high 3400 fps range and 3/4 MOA...the Savage is a walking/stalking gun. Shooting 85 gr BTs around 3000 fps, the 100 gr Partitions around 2800 or a bit better, 1/2 MOA for both so far, Partitions shooting a little better FWIW.

That's all I know.

I also have both, actually 2 of the .250 Savages. An old M77MKI and an older M99 Savage in .250 and a M77MKII in .257. Like Dan, I doubt any deer will tell you the difference. The .250 is a better fit in a short action if that half inch bolt travel distance means much to you. The .257 handles the 115 Partition much better, especially if chambered in a long action. Both shoot very well with the various 75's for varmints too!

I don't have any experience with the Bob, however I do now own only one rifle and it is a .250 Savage chambered in a Rem 700 Classic with a 24" 1 in 10 fairly stiff barrel. I have replaced the Rem. trigger with a Timney dropin and I am in the process of putting in a speed firing pin assembly. I have a Leopold VariX III 2.5 x 8 x 36 scope with two piece base mounts.This rifle is very accurate with 90 thru 120 grain bullets.
REMEMBER that when this cartridge came out it was for Savage's 99 lever action rifle. (My first serious rifle was a 99F that I got in the early '60's for the grand sum of $65.00 used from a family friend.
This action was not all that strong and the pressures were keep low. Also the twist was 1 - 14 to would not stablilize heavy bullets. My 99 was 1 in 10 and worked just fine.
NOW, WITH A STRONG ACTION LIKE THE 700 you can load the round up quite a bit and get a good bit more out of it than SAM??? reccomends. I played around with it a good bit in the '80's and I am just getting back into handloading again. I was getting GOOD, no VERY GOOD accuracy using 100 grain Speer hot core flat spitzer bullets. Over 3100 plus feet per second measured with an old Ohler 33 Crony. I was not getting high pressure signs and I of course worked up from much lower on the scale. Unfortunately most of my loading notes were gone with the wind during Hurricane Andrew in 1992. I do know that I was getting good results with 4320 and 4350 in the 38.? range using CCI BR primers.
This little cartridge is a hell of a good deer rifle and with the proper load should kill out to 300 yards IF YOU DO YOUR PART. It is not a moose or Brown bear gun, but in the right hands it should whack all the deer and lopes you every want to shoot. I have even killed turkeys with it shooting them where the neck meets the body.
Another member has suggested that I use necked up 22.-250 brass in the future and I intend to do just that. The brass is stronger. I would not feel uncomfortable exceeding sam???'s 44-45000. In fact, I would not feel uncomfortable approaching 50000 plus, just GO SLOW, REAL SLOW
Another real benifit is it is a short action round where the Bob requires a long action. ALSO, IF YOU WANT TO LATER you can go the the 250AI which I understand is one of his most successful wildcats.
The only thing that would cause me to go to another caliber is if I was in bear country.
You are going to get a lot of responses to this one.
Jack

In a given caliber, potential velocity is a function of case capacity. According to my references, the capacity of the 250 case is 46 grains of WATER, while the Roberts is 55 grains. That's a 20% difference. Rule of thumb is that velocity potential goes up at 1/4 the capacity. So a 20% increase in capcity would relate to a 5% increase in velocity potential. 5% of say, 2900 fps, is 145fps. So ignoring indiviual rifle variations, a typical "Bob" should give you about 150 fps more velocity potential with a given bullet than the typical 250. We are assuming that you are a handloader and can control variables such as bullets, powder, twist, barrel length, etc, etc.

IMO both cartridges are great little deer rifles, the Bob has a slight advantage in velocity potential, only you can decide which is best for you.

I have both.
What DD said.

quote:

Originally posted by winggunner:

Another member has suggested that I use necked up 22.-250 brass in the future and I intend to do just that. The brass is stronger.
Jack

Different lengths, different necks, different writing on the case heads, but the .470" type case head [1892 Mauser 7mm] primer pocket to extractor groove thickness and hardness that hold the pressure are all the same. And lately, even the 6.5x55mm, and it is not even supposed to BE .470"

But then, you can probably find members who think 270 brass can take higher pressure than 38 special brass, becuase the cartridge is registered with SAAMI at 4 times higher pressure.

TNEKKCC,
THe other member has appearently cut them open. I don't know, but SAMI??? does rate the pressure higher in the .22-250, NOW i AM not an engineer and I don't really know. BUT I do know that the .22-250 brass is CHEAPER. I still have a wad of the .250 brass in both Win and Rem. I check my cases very carefully after firing and if I have the least bit of doubt it goes out. Brass is to cheap to try and stretch it for one more firing.
Jack

I've owned a number of .257 Roberts and loaded them down at times at 250-3000 velocity predicated on the bullet to be used. These combinations worked well on mule deer.

Point of interest ** I have a 250-3000 barrel being made and hope to receive it soon.

I guess I'm indicating you can always load down unless you have an itch to scratch. roger

With a sample of 4 small deer 2 with 257 and 2 with 250. No discernable difference. Irealy like the 250 Savage.

I have 1 250 in m700 classic & 4 257 Customs-3 m700 & 1 mauser. I have killed 1 doe with the 250 & 8 with the 257. I use 120 bullets in both. The fastest I have got the 250 is 2,550 fps my hunting load on the 257 is 2,850 fps. In my small sample the 250 did great but that was 10 years ago so in my heart & head I believe that the 257 is a much better choice than the 250. I just had John Lewis build me a new 257 so that's putting my money where my mouth is.

Both are cool rounds,
I think the deciding factor for me at least would be the game and conditions of your hunt.
I have been a big Roberts guy for quite some time now. I have been shooting it for a couple years and just bought my second rifle so chamberd. If I can get 3050 FPS with the 110 grain nosler acubond,(I think I should be able to) I have 1200 Foot Lbs at 400 yards, witch is as far as I should shoot mule deer even under the best of cercumstances. And if long shots are likly for you, I would clearly opt for the Roberts.
But if you think 200 or mabye 250 is as far as you are going to shoot , then the savage would be great. But I must say I see no logical advantage to the savage.
But logic is not necisarily the deciding factor here sentiment matters too.
If you have a custom made, say on a mauser you could allways have it rechamberd to the roberts later.
Quarter bores are fun. I would love to have a 99 in the .257 savage. But in a bolt I will take the Roberts.
Just for your info, I have a 26 inch .25,06 also but for my purposes the roberts will do prety much as well as the .25,06.
keep us posted on your project. It will be fun I am sure...tj3006

If you're looking for a light 250, Nisika Bay has a 250 on their site for around $4k. I more of a 25-284 guy when it come to short action rifles.

Jeff

in terms of terminal performance,my experience is that out to 200yds there is little to NO difference. if you regularly shoot over 200yds i would lean towards the roberts. i shoot a 250/3000,a250ackley,and a 25/06. my shooting partner shoots a roberts. i prefer all three of mine to his. this past season i took a 110lb doe at about 125yds with the 250/3000. 100% penetration with 100gr partition. she humped her back and took about 10 steps and fell stone dead.

I've taken 50-60 deer with the 250-3000, 300 yds max, and most closer to 100 yds. I've used all manner of bullets and really don't see the advantage of a premium bullet at the 250-3000s velocities. The Rem 100 PSPCL is a fine choice, as is the Hornady 100 SP. I've also used various 115-120 grains will equal success. I've shot a number of deer with Bob as well and it does that same job as near as I can tell. Both are wonderful rounds.

If you have a 250-3000 put together you can have them cut a slightly longer throat to favor the big-game weight bullets (100+). I did so with my current 250-3000 and I am pleased with the results. Makes a bit better use of the 2.8" mag as well. Another trick too, if you have a good strong bolt rifle, is to use 22-250 brass (which is rated for 53,000 CUP) and go to town. Doing so, 3000 fps is easily obtainable with 100gr bullets.

Also, comparing water capacity between the two is a bit unfair as Bob has a SA OAL of 2.775", so bullets, even lighter ones, take up quite a bit of powder room.

I've had a few 700 classics in this caliber and they were fine rifles, though they were a bit heavy and long (24" barrels). I've always fancied the 250-3000 in an ultra-light type rifle, so I built one up on a 722 action with a nice trim stock I did myself (from a semi-inlet) and a pencil thin 22.5" barrel. Shoots about 0.75 MOA with a variety of loads. Here's a couple pics:





For hunting whitetails and the like at sub-300 yd ranges, the 250-3000 is plenty of rifle for any sane shot.

I rather like you 250, I would prefer a blue barrel, but the stock looks good.
I may end up with a 250 one day, but I like the roberts and really see no reason have a 250,3000 done, but on somthing real light like a cooper, it would be cool.
The one thing I like about the savage is that it uses very little powder, it would probably shoot great for thousands of rounds...tj3006

If you have a short action build the 250, if it is a long action go 257. Both will get the job done and no deer will ever know the difference. One word of caution- once you start shooting either one you will be hooked for life.

www.duanesguns.com home of the 257DGR

Small cartridges, short actions and longer barrels work surprisingly well. The longer barrel is possible due to the short action and makes a surprising amount of difference to velocity as well as reducing muzzle blast and flip. It will weigh no more than a longer action with 2" shorter barrel.

My 243 picked up just under 200fps with the same lot of factory 85gr when I moved from 22" to 26". It balances a lot better too.

The choice really depends on the action you use. The .250 Savage can be shoehorned into the Daley Mini Mauser action for a really petite rifle. I do not believe the terminal difference becomes significant unless you build a 3" Bob.

My current 257's are on long actions but I have had a Remington mountain rifle on a short action. It produced basically the same velocity even with long bullets as the long action guns. Even with a max load the roerts case is around 90% full. If the throat allows bullets that match the magazine length all will be fine with a short action regreatably that was not the case with the mountain rifle.

My two Bobs are both on 2.8" SA. One is on a 722 action and the other is a 700 Mountain rifle. I've never found the SA to an issue, though lots of folks seem to think this is a problem. Both are extremely accurate through the entire range of bullet weights. I've found that seating to the lands is frequently not necessary to achieve acceptable accuracy.

If I was going to have a long action, I'd get a 25-06...

Or, you could just buy a 25 WSSM and reload it to speed that isn't possible in the smaller case capacity 250-3000 and 257 Roberts. My Win 70 in 25 WSSM is only slightly longer than my Win 70 Carbine in 250-3000, despite having a 22" barrel in lieu of the Win 70 Lightweight Carbine's 20" barrel.

Jeff

Supposedly the 25 WSSM can get top 257 bob velocities and with a smaller action than a short one. How is yours doing velocity wise 260remguy ?