I cannot believe the ballistic coefficients for Nosler bullets. They show the .243 with a higher BC than the same 55 gr weight in the .224 bullets. Sierra does not and shows a slight advantage for the .224 which makes sense to me.

This is all because I am going go choose a caliber for a new bbl on my M-70. The bbl will be heavy varmint, 26" long.

Right now I am leaning towards a Swift. But these light .243 bullets are new to me.

It's either that or a .243 Winchester which is what it is now. I have a lot of other varmint rifles so either one will fit in.

It was the advent of the 55's in .243" that made me abandon the Hot 22's. I don't shoot mine anymore.

I shoot the 223Ackley in .224". 40's will break 4000fps,50's will bust 3750fps.

The 243Ackley is the next rung up the ladder,for me. It will squirt 55's at Warp Speed,if that is of interest. Better yet,it will do very well with the mid-weights. In a 26" barrel,you can push 65's to 4000fps.

It is largely impossible to surpass the versatility of the 243Win,or it's Improved version. She'll do it all and with ease.

I am a huge Swift fan,it has always served me well. In a direct comparison with the 243Win,it does nothing better,especially with those wicked 55's.

In fact,my next project will be to yank one of my 22-250Ackleys apart,to build a 243Ackley...........

[This message has been edited by Big Stick (edited 01-04-2002).]

The velocity is got to be there for sure for the .243's bigger case and favorable expansion ratio. But so far my question of the ballistic coefficient remains unanswered on the Nosler Ballistic Tips.

I will shoot Sierra bullets at first anyway and it just does not make sense that the .243 Nosler bullet with less sectional density will have a better shape over the same make in .224.

The thing that still irks me about the .220 Swift/.243 Win debate is how Bob Wallack and others debased the .220 Swift back in the 1950's. That was the choice of calibers in 1957 in that M-70 and I chose the new .243 because I feared that the .220 Swift would die out due to the bad press. I guessed right but now I would ignore that and fight back.

On the other hand Col. Whelan carried a .257 Roberts most of the time when hunting woodchucks on or near his home "Someday" in Vermont. The reason is that he hoped for a chance to shoot a black bear. While the season then opened in April for bear it still opens on September 1st there and I might be hunting chucks that month. So that favors the .243. I would specify the 1-10 twist anyway.

It surprised me too but I'd be willing to bet that the ogive on the 243s was bigger and that consequently it was more streamlined. I don't think long parallel sides do as much for BC as a long ogive.

If you look at the Speer FB spitzers you will see the same phenomenon, the 120gr 257 bullet has a lower BC than a 120gr 264 bullet.

Don,

The BC between the two has been the subject of numerous HOT debates,on different Forums.

It boils down to the same thing EVERY time. Guys that are the most incensed(.224" Guys) call a Nosler Technician and come back saying they were mistaken.

The miniscule BC differences means little. Bottom line,is the 243 has the muscle to push those 55's faser than the Swift. It also has the muscle(capacity)to push the mid-weights at a steady clip,reaping those increased BC advantages.

Like I said,I love the Swift and always have. Sure the 22-250Ackley makes more sense. My 22CHeetah Mach Ones will "outdo" it,but the Swift still works very well.

For my money,when weighing versatility and effectiveness,the 243Ackley is KING. To truly outdo it,you need a substantially larger case and that comes with the price always associated.

For a single utilitarian Varmint load,the 75gr V-Max gets the nod(from me). The 85gr XLC is an absolute sledge hammer on Game. I've got buddies shooting that combo,as their primary rifle(I prefer the 25-284).

This year alone,it has accounted for Deer,Black Bear and a Wolf,that I've witnessed. None required a second poke. It is a pretty impressive cartridge,that is very user-friendly,in my opinion..........

Thanks all for the prompt and informed responses. I am think about it and still gathering info.

Right now I think it will be a standard .243 Win. I already have a .224 with a 1-9 twist, long bbl and 52 grain case capacity and a .219 Improved Zipper on a high wall. The Zipper is my pet of pets for varmints.

As I have stated I don't feel like wearing out a bbl fire forming cases. With the .219 it's easier to make them out of 30-30's and that case just full sized to .219 Kilbourn will take the full load.

This rifle is kind of heavy with the straight taper bbl and it's .750" muzzle dia. The scope is a 15X Unertl Ultra Varmint. I shoot it from with a marksman sling from the standard positions in the field depending on what height I need as I do with the High Wall Zipper.

Don,

Of course we differ in tastes and thought. But I don't believe 100 shots through a new barrel,constitutes irrepairable devastation to the barrel. Forming cases is something I like to do,because it constitutes another "reason" to be shooting.

Those forming pokes can be from a rock solid bench,or in a more laid back manner. I generally prefer to practice from various positions while forming and little is lost in mechanical accuracy. In fact,my most recent 223Ackley has rewarded me with multiple groups in the high .2's,while forming cases for it. That is a 50gr bullet,traveling at 3300fps and with that accuracy,the combo is far from futile for quality practice.

I'm not debating that the practice is for everyone,but will state,that most are quick to dismiss it,despite giving her a whirl.

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. Here is a 243Win with 70grMK and a 243Win Ackley with an 85gr BT Silvertip as comparison. Both looks and performance differences,are beyond subtle.

Your mileage may vary..............

Don't know if the .243 bullet really betters the .224 or not , but I can testify the 55 gr 6mm shoots just as flat in the field as your little ballistic calculator says they will . It's a very impressive load out to a quarter mile or so .

BIG STICK !!!

Toss me some load data for your 40 gr. .223 Ackley Imp. that's getting 4,000 fps. I may have the data from some other posts, but I'd be interested in what you're loading here.

Thanks.

Oh yeah . . . what I know about the Swift is that it burns throats.

And I thougt Bob Wallack had passed on.

But since your reading this do you think it's only the Swift? What about a wildcat in .224" that burns 51 grs of 4831 behind a 60 gr bullet?

Genghis,

Same data.

31.5grs of H-335,with a moly 40gr V-Max in a 24" barrel,that's twisted 1-12"................

According to Rick Jamison (of ST), BC also has some relationship to velocity (i.e., it can change with the velocity the bullet is traveling at). That may explain the difference.

I've used the 55gr. BT in my 26"-barreled Ruger 1-B .243 to devastate woodchucks. The effect is MUCH more dramatic than with a .22-250 using 50gr. BTs. 'Hogs drop immediately with the .243/55grs., and the damage is impressive.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

The 243 is a real sleeper when it comes to shooting those lighter weight bullets. Weather in the standard 243 case or the 243 AI with a 55&60 gr. bullet will equal any 220 swift for accuracy and velocity. The larger diameter bullet will fly better over the same distances as the swift 55 gr. bullet. The Swift was and is still a widly used cartridge, but the 243 or necked down 308 is one fantastic ove looked varmint round. If I were making a new varmint rifle I would choose the 243 with the 55 and 60 gr. bullet over the the Swift and the 22-250. If you own all three and shoot them you will soon see how the 243 shines. At longer ranges the larger diameter bullet fom the 243 will shoot better. The .224 diameter bullet shoots fantastic at close range out to 200 yards but after that it falls off dramatically even in the Swift and 22-250. I'm certain you will connect more often at 400 yards with your 243 and a 60 gr. bullet than you will with your Swift or 22-250 with a 55 gr. bullet.

What would be the best barrel twist for the hot .243 to shoot 55-65 grain bullets?

I am going with the 1-10 again. It's just right. On one end you have the 107 gr VLD bullet that needs a 9" and the old .244 Rem twist of 12" for light bullets.

I am kind of new to this world of varmintmasters. What is the .243 Ackley? I would sure like to get a custom rifle someday and I want a smoker as it would be a coyote rifle for the Nebraska plains. These new varmint bullets for the 6mm and .243 are really impressive. I haven't seen any mention of the 6mm Rem with the light ones yet. Any feedback on that one?

The 243 AI is the Ackley Improved version of the standard 243 case and is a 308 necked to .243 diameter. The 308, 243, 243 AI all came from the 30-06 case. The 243 AI is a 243 case blown out to hold more powder. I find the standard case gives me all the velocity I want from the 243 shooting the 55 and 60 gr. bullets and the bore lasts longer. I have dies to fit the standard 243 case and have never had any desire to change to the 243 AI chambering. I guess I'm from the old school. At age 59 I see no advantage making the great 243 cartridge hold more powder to get the same job done just as well.

100% agreement with Reloader66. If you want more capacity look at the 6mm Remington.