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| One of Us |
With all the talk around here about the spectacular performance of .22 caliber varmint bullets on big game(and light for caliber at that) I really wanted to find the answer to this myself.  I also took the fact into consideration that if you have no real world experience with a subject, you really shouldn't voice an opinion about it. So I'd like to tell you all about my morning... I was up early. I did some things around the house like laundry, neck turning some 7mm RUM brass...you know, the normal, everyday grind. Then the idea came to me. I wonder if what determines a "clean kill" is all about bullet placement? I decided to find out. Once and for all! I threw my .17 HMR in the truck right next to my A-Bolt .300 Winchester Magnum that I had accidentally dropped in a cow pie yesterday. There was TEANCUM dried all over it and it really stunk up the cab. I left it on there because it seemed to make the rifle more stealthy. Anyway, I drove down to an area north of town that has some farm raised Bison just off of a busy highway. Folks stop a lot there to take pictures of them. I stopped and got out of the truck with my HMR and walked over to the high fence and began glassing. The look on the faces of the folks taking photos was one for the books... The herd didn't seem to be wary at all. I guess they haven't been hunted in a while. I glassed the entire herd and saw a ton of cows. Bringing up the rear, herding his harem was the herd bull. He looked frantic, hot and tired of running off all of the smaller satellite bulls trying to steal his cows. They're rutting right now. I ranged him at 296 yards then reached for the HMR. I took a rest off of the square high wire fencing. I let the crosshairs settle in behind his right front shoulder and began to squeeze the trigger. I wanted to make a good shot with perfect placement to test this theory. Believe me, it was very difficult filtering out the screams and yelling of the folks taking the pictures! Kinda like in Caddyshack when Danny was lining up his match-winning putt to the shouts of "miss it Noonan!" When the gun went off it surprised me..a perfectly executed shot. I saw the 17 grain bullet hit the bull right where I wanted it; there was a puff of dust off of his hide. It was a "bang, flop". Or more like a "Pop, flop". People scattered back to their cars. I was shocked that no one applauded. I thought to myself, "Self, this 'placement' deal has some merit!". I quickly drove over the fence and right up to the beast and began field dressing it into the coolers I brought. Since I was alone, it took me much longer than I had expected, about 13 minutes to do a good job. I love buffalo meat! On my way out, a smallish herd of field mice ran out in front of the truck on the dirt road. I had to stop the truck to let them pass. Some of them were definitely Boone and Crockett. Since I was just meat hunting, I picked out one of the younger ones and reached for a rifle. The one that looked good and that I had a clear shot at was still pink with very little hair. The rifle I came up with was the .300 WM. After ranging them at 25 feet, or about 8 yards, I dialed in the proper dope into the scope and took a rest off of my side mirror. The wind was perfect; they had no idea I was even in the same county! I was so excited that I made a poor shot. It was either that or the crusty cow pie stuff I was trying to get out of the corner of my mouth after I cheeked the rifle. The 200 grain GameKing hit the adolescent mouse too far back and he was off and running. I got out and tried to track him but the 8" tall weeds in the area made tracking a nightmare. I never found him before the police came.  It's all about shot placement!  | ||
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 Now that's shot placement.....a .300 Mag and a young field mouse....  A .17 HMR and an American Bison.....  Just wait until Hot Core reads this!  /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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 Now that was an entertaining piece of rhetoric!!! rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Thank you! Thank you very much! What a great crowd! I'll be here all week.... Don't forget to tip your waitresses and bartenders! | |||
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Be the bullet....nananana nananana....Oh I meant "Be the ball...." | |||
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I too would have been "shocked that know one applauded" amazing hunt congrats | |||
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Personally, I have had way more problems with nimrods putting bullets in the wrong place than by not using enough gun. Ask any guide, I can promise you he would take an adequate bullet in the right place. Than some magnum in the wrong place. The problem here, is defining adequate. And getting the true testosterone laden people to accept information from people who have been there done that. | |||
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The whole time I was reading your story, I thought it was going to be another "Barnes Bullets Pencil Thru Game" story! | |||
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I saw a woman walking her dog this morning & she failed to clean up the rcamuglia it left on the pavement. True or not, it's as relevant as the OP's crap tale...... | |||
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Well, let's see: Thanks in part to a healthy population of wild hogs, I've been blessed to take big game animals numbering well into three figures. And the vast majority were taken with cartridges which do not break 2800 fps at the muzzle. Heck, most are in the 2400-2650 fps range. You don't need an overbore magnum to kill a deer or hog at 300 yards. What you do need, however, is the ability to place a properly constructed bullet -- one matched both to the game hunted and the velocity range you are operating at -- precisely into the vitals. And yes, I have kiiled deer and hogs with .22 caliber centerfires, though they are far from my first choice for such applications. Do I feel they are a good choice for most hunters, who may shoot no more than 5-6 shots per season? No way. They're not the best for veteran shooters, either, if they can't keep their cool, exercise patience under pressure and put the bullet where it needs to go. But for a small percentage of the population, they are perfectly adequate tools.    Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Oddbod.... A prime example of hundreds of years of Limey inbreeding on the Socialist Island. Oh, the teeth are a telltale sign too... "F" for originality and plagiarism! | |||
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"And yes, I have kiiled deer and hogs with .22 caliber centerfires, though they are far from my first choice for such applications. Do I feel they are a good choice for most hunters, who may shoot no more than 5-6 shots per season? No way." Glad we agree! Hope you enjoyed my creative writing as much as I like your pics. P.S. A 6.5 is "adequate" for just about everything regardless of velocities. Sectional density my boy, sectional density! | |||
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There is a lesson to be learned there for all shooters. ______________________ Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie? | |||
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Shot placement is also about not getting used deerfood mixed with what you planned to have for dinner. | |||
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Great stories R!!! Darn shame you couldn't have gotten some flicks from the tourista of the Kill and the "Charge". There is a guy on the board who "NEVER" aims when he is Charged and apparently has been Charged many MANY times. (I suspect all his Charges were at Wal-Mart.) | |||
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And the peanut gallery has spoken. | |||
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I'm pretty disappointed no one got as much of a kick out of this as I did!.......
Whenever someone replies to this thread and I re-read my story I laugh just as hard as when I was writing it the first time! Tears in my eyes!... | |||
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Where are the pictures? What a great tale! Red C. Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion. | |||
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The cops confiscated my camera and entered it into evidence along with the Bison carcass. They were astounded as the size of the exit hole the HMR made! | |||
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rcamuglia..... Proving to one & all that he is upon occasion rude & petty. He also shows a complete ignorance as to the politics & reality of another nation (which DIDN'T vote for Obama.....). | |||
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Obummer's policies, which are piles of "Oddbod", are conservative in comparison to the Limp-wristed UK's
I think my response to your post was tame in comparison. Now go see a dentist! | |||
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A great opening post only outdone by Bobby's photos. Well done. | |||
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EEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!! I don't touch anything with TEAN CUM on it.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Velocity is vastly over-rated for terminal impact effect. Projectile cross sectional area and mass are much more important than speed if we want to hurt something. A 100 gr. bullet of the most explosive design fired from a .257 Weatherby at a blistering 3,500 fps won't have near the terminal effect of a common 1865 4" non-expanding iron cannon ball plodding along at a mere 800 fps. | |||
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Shot placement first, bullet selection second and caliber third. With the creation of the modern bullets that exist today it is possible to improve terminal performance on game with smaller projectiles but though possible, it does broach ethics. I was watching Predator Nation on the tube the other day and watched Les Johnson kill coyotes with his .243 that fell over dead in their tracks. Conversely I saw another fellow use an AR platform with .223 FMJ ammo and every critter he shot ran off before expiring. I personally have more respect for the shot that stops em in their tracks which usually means proper bullet, placement and enough gun. Captain Finlander | |||
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This thread needs elevation given the thread on the long range shooting forum!  /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Rick, Hang in there bud. Only a little while longer 'til huntin season and then you can go KILL SUMPIN! ROTFLMAO! Alan  | |||
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I did the EXACT same thing with a.14 Mosquito! Didn't write about it ealier, as I thought nobody would believe me. Really RC, you got lots of time on your hands, LOL! Jerry NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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The poor performance on the field mouse had nothing to do W/poor placement! It was an obvious case of bullet failere pure and simple. A heavy for calliber (220gr?) bonded core, or better yet, monolthic bullet would have had that mouse DRT. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Deep east Tejas varmint rig: 45-70, 400 GR speer flat point 53 gr IMR-3031 range 25 yds.  Yeah, I know Billy Dixon would be green with envy. Due to excellent shot placement, I didn't even have to track him. Come to think of it, I might have had to back track him a couple yards. And yes Nguyen, you can eat right up to the bullet hole. GWB | |||
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I learn so much from this forum - cow pie lube ! Well anyway I got another chuck today .Nothing special just close in 22LR subsonic HP....On ly because there are no bison here . | |||
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I've obviously been away for too long...  | |||
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Prolly the other way around, some of us have been spending too much time here. Dog days of summer and all. GWB | |||
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Yep, When it hits 100* by 11 am and is still over 100* at dark its hard to get to ambitious doing much outside. SSR | |||
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I did one of those a few years back with a Pedersoli 45/70 double and a 405 grain Remington core-loct, except it was a bobcat and at best it was 10 yards away. I was setting in a ground blind watching a feeder waiting for a deer to come in and this goofy cat walks up that close, sees me and hukers down, thinking I did not see him, damn fool set there watching pick up the rifle, shoulder it ease the hammer back and pull the trigger. Bullet entered between his let shoulder and his neck went out just to the right if where the tail joned the body, never moved. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Pretty much the same. I was sitting in a ground blind at the corner of two barbed wire fences that marked the boundary of our place. I spotted this coyote on the road about 400 yds. He crossed under the fence and came straight at me. Evidently I had the wind cause he kept on coming. At +/- 25 yds. he was still coming straight at me when I pulled the trigger. Curtains for him. GWB | |||
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People always underestimate those polymer tips on the .17 hell they don't call them ballistic tips for nothing.  Great story RC, I laughed out loud. | |||
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...squinting his eyes into the far distance, he took the stub of an unfilered Camel from his lips and opined: "it ain't what you stick 'em with, it's where you stick 'em." He then closed the door to his high-rise cliff dwelling and went back to his "Reality Hunting" game boy.... Aim for the exit hole | |||
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By By RC.....who is he preaching to now? Gone from here and 24 ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I just sent him a PM on 24 hour.....apparently he's still there. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Proving to one & all that he is upon occasion rude & petty.