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| One of Us |
It has been proposed that AR-15's and AK's etc. be made class 3 weapons. I'm not really opposed to it as it would not really affect me much. What do you guys think? velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | ||
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| One of Us |
AR 15'2 are a semi auto .223, nothing more, nothing less. I put them like Corvettes. When I was a kid, all kids wanted a corvette because they looked cool. Practical? Not really in my books. Poor gas mileage and to me an uncomfortable ride, no luggage space and only one passenger and high priced. Who cared about that? They looked cool. Kids wanted one. AR-15's to me are ugly and heavy and to me don't look as good as a good old blued and walnut rifle. Outlaw them and idiots will use something else. Full autos are hard to get---thus they got something else. To me it is ridiculous to think classroom shootings are going to be controlled with legislation. IE, making the AR-15 a class 3. Folks it is already against the law to go shoot a bunch of kids. What are they going to do, give a person the death sentence and on top of that a $250 fine if they use an AR-15? Don't know the answer, wish I did. I think arming the teachers that are willing to be armed would be a good start. | |||
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| One of Us |
NO! Then next it'll be 10/22s........... Enough is enough. . | |||
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| one of us |
Fair question. If the gun-grabbers were asked, what set of laws will you accept as the end of your demands, what would it be? I'm not convinced there is any end to it. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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| One of Us |
negative also. AR's, your 1100 or A-5, what's the difference? oh you shoot ducks with your A-5. I shoot prairie dogs with my AR. I guess we better get them both on the list then. oh you know what else is semi-auto, yep your 1911, and your glock, so is your little buck mark, on the list they go too. | |||
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One of Us |
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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| One of Us |
They are trying to appease the leftist, socialist front and in my estimation that is not doable without going to the entire end of complete gun confiscation. If that should ever happen they will not be satisfied with just firearms. Give them just a skosh and they'll want all you value of your freedom. Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand, But a fool's heart is at his left. I will never give in to these people! Dennis Life member NRA | |||
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long time ago there was a man by the name of thomas jefferson who wrote a great document called the Constitution. his simple statement covers all the hysteria of today "those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither" | |||
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History fail  "though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression." ---Thomas Jefferson | |||
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| One of Us |
So nice of you to throw the AR guys under the bus. And if you think that this would appease them, it wont. They want them all. | |||
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Nah no worries it don't affect you. Bet when they get around to something you do care about your tune will change. Anyone who believes they don't want ALL guns gone is either ignorant or a fool....I will let you decide of the two. | |||
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Hell no! NRA Patron member | |||
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| One of Us |
How does an AR-15 qualify as class 3? It's not full auto, it's not too short of a barrel, yada yada. Guess if a person used it to shoot up Catholic Services it would be a weapon of mass destruction. | |||
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| One of Us |
That's where you are 100% fucking wrong, take it from an Australian. It would affect you. We had that same attitude in Australia on semi autos, however banning/restricting semi autos was only one part, the first part and then the rest follows. The hoops, hurdles, calibre restrictions etc. and etc. for bolt actions and even single shot centre fires like Ruger 1 are unreal. Full auto Semi auto Pump action Lever action Bolt action repeater Double rifle Single shot Muzzle loader. They are ALL ON THE LIST and it is about removing them one at a time. | |||
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Mike has seen it first hand, as has Enfieldspares.......listen to these guys. The gun grabbers want them all! They won't stop. . | |||
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Agree, the left will only be satisfied with total confiscation. The frog is in the pan and the heat is slowly being applied. "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind..." Hosea 8:7 | |||
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| one of us |
Your bolt action sniper rifles well be next. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes, after they take AR’s, there will be a rash of shootings with scoped bolt rifles and they’ll use that as an excuse to take them too. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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Then if your opposed to this ; Step up and make a special donation to The NRA and their School Safety Program. I donated $125.00 How much did you donate??? Lets all put our money where our mouth is. Preaching to the quire does nothing. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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It's the camel's nose under the tent. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I have been sitting here for five minutes trying not to call you a f’ing idiot. I think I have overcome the temptation, but I’m not 100% sure. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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When are ya'll gonna learn that "GRABBERS"...no matter WHAT they're after...CAN'T be satisfied...they are only satisfied when they are GRABBING...and it DOESN'T really matter what it is that their twisted minds have lit upon they have justified it and they CAN'T be untwisted. THEY DON'T WANT A SOLUTION, if there is one...and as soon as "those nasty things gets grabbed", they are on to something else to grab. HISTORY has taught us the lesson...unfortunately most humans don't give a damn about history, they just want the next tech object to whack their tools with...snort their next line...smoke their next dooby and the rest of us just WHINE BUT DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT...meaningfully. As long as we stand for nothings, as it is today, there is NOTHING TO STAND FOR...and the SFB, nutless politicians everywhere will keep leading us down the road to final destruction by our own hands and by our own indifference. Back in the 11-12 century a Catholic Bishop said the famous words "Kill them all, God knows his own" about some Cathars...we are just about to do just that. I spent part of my life mucking about doing the Gov'ments work, part in learning what makes people tick, part in learning about the environment and how it works, and ALL OF IT using my vote and voice in the pursuit of right...whatever that is...because "Right" has changed almost daily for 76 odd years. There ARE solutions, but NO ONE WANTS THEM TO HAPPEN...greed and avarice and human wants and needs outweigh the need to solving our ignorance. I WANT MY AUTO'S...I WANT MY GUNS...I WANT THOSE THAT USE THEM AGAINST OTHERS...DEAD WITH NO TRIAL...and there in lies the conundrum...I ALSO WANT MY FREEDOMS AND YOURS...but we have seen, for the past 50 years that the gulf between personal freedoms and government control is too wide to ever close. GOOD LUCK | |||
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There was a fellow named Neville who in search of Peace in Our Time gave away a country that had "No Affect" on him or his country. In so doing secured the certainty of War rather than Peace. I continue to be amazed by the number and vociferousness of those that ignore human nature, historical fact while seeking the allusion that "THIS time it will be different" To those, you have my best wishes for your time in the concentration camps to be of short duration and your termination of metabolism to be as painless as possible. | |||
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| One of Us |
Why not make the Ruger mini14 a ranch rifle. Most sub models even have black plastic stocks, and higher capacity magazines are available. What I hate about the Left in the gun debate is that there propals are always based on the looks of the firearm. For example if it has a pistol grip or bayonet lug sales should be banned or strictly restricted. The Army does not use bayonets. If I were going to hold up a bank. That bayonet lug or pistol grip really makes the firearm that much more dangerous. Direct impingement gas recoil operations goes back to what 1908 with that Mexican rifle? Every firearm designed except double rifles were designed to kill enemy combatants more efficiently than previous technology. | |||
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Then the Garand.....then the 10-22......and so on. This "it won't affect me" attitude is what enables the slippery slope........ And, by the way, this thread probably belongs in the Political Cesspool. Doug Wilhelmi NRA Life Member | |||
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| One of Us |
Well I just made a special donation to The NRA for $100.00 and one to the NRA'S School Safety Program for $25.00. How much did you give??? Lip service doesn't accomplish much. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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Well Duckear, how much did you donate to protect our 2nd Ammendant rights ????? velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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One of Us |
In about 2 hours of training, I can have you shooting 30 rounds out of a Remington 760/7600 with a 10 round magazine and 3 reloads off hand within about 20 seconds of the time it took you to fire the 30 rounds out of the AR. You will solve nothing. When society was fed up with drunk driving, we went after the behavior - not the alcohol. Assault is a verb not a noun. When 3000 people were killed on September 11th, did we blame the plane? We tolerate violence in our society everywhere from hockey fights to gratuitous revenge violence in movies. Please don't tell me movies don't impact behavior - if images can't modify behavior, then why is a 30 second during the Super Bowl $3 million. Imagine the outrage if hollywood made movies showcasing; the hero being a drunk driver but nobody objects to revenge violence in movies buy the hero. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| One of Us |
In about 2 hours of training, I can have you shooting 30 rounds out of a Remington 760/7600 with a 10 round magazine and 3 reloads off hand within about 20 seconds of the time it took you to fire the 30 rounds out of the AR. You will solve nothing. During that 20 extra seconds, a group of 1st graders could overtake the shooter and prevent any casualties. There is your answer. The AR-15 is the culprit and needs to be banned. | |||
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One of Us |
So you are blaming a certain look of a firearm for mass shootings? This is the slippery slope we are on, as soon as you give an inch carpetman we will end up giving them all up in the end. If you wanted to wreak havoc without an AR15 a pump shotgun with an extended tube magazine loaded with buckshot would put more projectiles into a crowd much faster than any AR15. Not to mention that there are plenty of wood stocked hunting rifles that can lay down the same rate of fire as any AR. Look at any Mini14, any magazine fed 22 rimfire rifle? I think Mike hit it on the head you can't keep teaching kids by glorifying movies, TV shows, video games and music and culture that idolize thugs and violence in a society where we have practically outlawed the open practice of Christianity and expect and expect the killing to stop. | |||
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| One of Us |
Carpetman1, If you are being serious, your assumption and conclusion is wrong. That 20 seconds is dispersed over the entire time period. There is no single 20 second widow. I am being generous by adding 1/2 second per shot and adding in one additional mag change and 5 seconds for the mag change. Let's not go down the path of "if it saves 1 life", because if were going to go down the path of 1 life, then there are hundreds of other things we need to make unlawful also. Like let's start with censoring all inflammatory speech on the internet. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| One of Us |
That quote is from Ben Franklin. And Tommy Jefferson wrote the Constitution, but Jimmy Madison wrote the Bill of Rights (including the 2nd Amendment). | |||
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| One of Us |
I can't believe either of you two thought that I thought a bunch of helpless kids being shot could overtake a shooter in 20 seconds. My post was tongue in cheek to show how ridiculous it is to ban the AR-15 as if it were the culprit. I'm well aware that the AR-15 is nothing more than a semi-auto .223 regardless of it's appearance. | |||
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| One of Us |
I missed the sarcasm thinking you were serious... | |||
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| One of Us |
Would be some tough. fast acting kids, that would unite and overtake a shooter with a rifle in 20 seconds while he changes magazines. Oopps make that he/she reloads a magazine, had a female mass shooter yesterday. | |||
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| one of us |
Hitler Saud the best way to conquer a country was to take away their guns ! Ask any Jew from Germany or American Indian how good that will work out for you ! These demirats would be happy in China no guns until they demonstrated and tanks ran over them And army shot them with machine guns .This country was built on freedom if the demirats don't like it Leave there is the door your free to leave .They won't stop taking guns till there are none in private hands ! | |||
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one of us |
Make all semi's class III? Sure, if we get to convert them all to transferrable full auto, NFA is repealed, suppressors become OTC accessories, FOPA '86 is repealed...maybe then we'll come to the table. Damn right its loaded, it makes a lousy club. -JW | |||
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| One of Us |
Just a slight change in wording is all that's needed to ban "any semi-auto that CAN be changed to full auto and CAN accept a high capacity magazine" would effectively ban any detachable magazine fed semi auto. | |||
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| One of Us |
A law abiding citizen should be able to own any and all of the various weapons that Hillary, et al, guards are armed with. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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| One of Us |
That would be a de facto ban since there can be no Class III weapons sold to civilians that weren't registered prior to May 1986. One shot , one kill | |||
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