quote:

When it comes to hard hunting conditions where you might have to take a less then perfect shot. They are lacking..

But a magnum will drop them in their tracks even with a poorly placed shot?

Despite my strong backing for .22 centerfires on deer, I use my .243. This is not a contradiction as it's been a few years since I shot a deer but I have taken several youth for their deer. Recent diagnoses of lung cancer my hunting days are probably over. It is not a concern to me that others don't use .22 cal on deer, I do speak up when a post is made that contradicts my experience with it.

I know this from experience.

The very definition of knowledge is our ability to discern information from experience and apply logic. We learn from observation and scientific principles.

That fallow was hit by a 60gr VMax angling down into the thematic area between the two shoulders. The reaction to the shot was a typical hard hit deer that wobbles and staggers away.

Sam followed up with 2 dogs in very thick bush but could not get a shot. This went on for 10 minutes. Suddenly the deer broke cover and ran.
With the 7mm08, the damage would have been far greater and the animal would not recover.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:

quote:

I've lost a fallow deer at 120 meters shot with my 223 Rem . I am sure i would not have lost that animal in an open clearing if I was using my 7mm08

You didn't do it, you can speculate you wouldn't have lost it.

quote:

So you haven't actually used a .22 Centerfire on deer and found it lacking. However, you believe it to be "lacking" in the situations you describe.

I have always said one can kill deer with 22 centers fires.

Big deal one can kill them with 22rf.

Does it make it the best choice. Not by far.

Some of us know what the limit limitations are with out having to test them.

If you decide to handy cap your self in those situations. Go for it.

S00000 now were told its ok to take a bad shot if you have a big bore, Two things bother me with hunters, One is a big bore kills ever time with any shot placement and big bores always leaves a blood trail, both are wrong..The other is the more X,s in a scope make up for poor shooting.

Lets bitch about hunter with 223 and give the archer and pistol shooter a walk! How bout to each his own!! God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy!

My perfect deer hunt is a good saddle horse and either my 25-35 Mod 94 SRC or Savage 99F 250-3000 in q saddle scabbard for Whitetail, Coues, or Mule deer. For culling allotted deer a 222 suits me fine

There is an old saying----"Use the best tool for the job!"

----------------NOT-------------

Any tool that MAY work!!!

Hip

How many .223 hunters if offered an once in a lifetime hunt for a record book Buck would still choose the .223 for the hunt?

This thread seems to have lost its focus.

Nobody claimed that the 222Rem or the 223Rem was an ideal deer cartridge. Nobody claimed that they prefer it when targeting trophy bucks.

Many people have shots lots of deer with these calibers. Most seem to harvest meat animals.

Some totally disapprove of using these cartridges on deer. They probably have not tried it.

Bullet selection and shot selection are the key.

I lost a fallow deer at 140 meters last December. 60 gr Vmax did not penetrate into the chest when fired down between the shoulders.

Haven't tried suicide either but for now I think I will pass on it!!!

Hip

I have one requirement on caliber for deer. the gun must be loaded, and I have the ability to judge the situation before I take the shot and so far its worked with the 222 Rem etc. and a 60 gr Hornady HP or SP. and other calibers. Culling mostly.

I agree there are circumstances wherein I would not use a light caliber or a muzzle loader, shotgun, bow, or pistol!! Common since is your best load.

In northwest Pennsylania, the 22 Hornet was used by some for deer as well as groundhogs when it was first introduced.

OK HERE GOES, Dad leased a 30,000 plus acre ranch in Mexico and paid the lease by fenceing the place. We had a crew of 20 to 30 locals and had to feed them. The ranch was crawling with deer, to be used to feed the crew and the local Forestales, who we kept in meat and suger. My job at 10 or 15 years old was to shoot 5 or 6 deer ever morning with Juan Sotol. He used a 22 single shot and I a win mod 63 auto..We rode out horse back and the deer seldom if ever hunted in that area were tame as sheep, we shot from the horses or mules..two shots in the lungs and ride off not going for the deer, made a mile two circle shooting five or 6 deer, then gutted the deer starting with the first one shot until finished, then rode to camp and got the crew to come and get the deer by wagon or pack animals, take two to the Feds and the rest too camp..Juan taught me the secret of taking one or two shots and riding off, the deer laid down and died, If you approached, they would run and be hard to find, according to him and I would not doubt his skill, he was probably 70 or 80 and been feeding the local village for years..with a single shot 22. We didnt lose a single deer that summer..
I wish every kid could be raised like that, I was blessed with a hard life and loved it..

Wifezilla and two of the daughters have taken, 3 whitetail bucks and two does in the last two years using AR-15s chambered in 223. They use the 64 grain Winchester factory deer load.

Four, one shot kills where the deer traveled less than 50 yards. Wifezilla's big bodied, 10-point made about 400 yards with two lung shots.

We can wait for perfect shots under 200 yards but I still don't like it. I bought Wifezilla a 6mm ARC upper and I'm working up loads for her using 95 grain bullets.

I have used 22 caliber rifles for years. In central texas and west Texas. I was raised to shoot them in the neck. I’ve used 55 grain ballistic tips and they don’t exit. They transfer all energy to the spine and the deer drop. I’ve also used the 60 grain partitions for chest shots. Would I use it on a driven hunt? No. Would I choose it on a world record hunt in my area? Yes, it is my most accurate rifle and I am very comfortable with it. Now, if we are moving further north and expecting bigger bodied deer, I would go up to a larger caliber and shoot for the chest.

I have a pic of my Grandmother's last deer. She shot it about 100 yards away with an open sighted Savage 340 in .222. Neck shot, bang flop. Nice Montana mule deer doe. After the shot she looked over and told me she doesn't see as well as she used to; she was 84 and passed away before the next hunting season.

Now she had hunted and been around animals her entire life. She could step out her back door and start hunting, so she could pick her shot or pass until tomorrow.

Not my choice of rifle caliber, but it worked very well for her. Edit: I was using a 30-06 with 4X scope; it didn't work any better than her rifle.

.223 work for me today. All copper expanding bullet. I aimed for the exit hole.
75 yard shot through the shoulder, took out the top of the heart and exited out the ribs.
Went 50 ft and fell over just as I was going to put #2 into him. Big bodied fork hanging in the cooler.

Over this side of the puddle we can use 22 centrefires on small deer. In the UK that’s Roe deer in Scotland and muntjac and chinese water deer in England. The law in Scotland stipulates a min 50gn bullet, 2450fps muzzle velocity and 1,000 ft lbs of muzzle energy for use on Roe, for bigger deer its 80gn, 2450fps and 1750 ft lbs.

In practice this means 222 is a minimum. 222 and 223 both popular and have shot several Roe with my 223 and 51gn Peregrine VLR4 all copper bullet. Everything has dropped on the spot. Given the bullet performance it would work on Fallow and even red deer. However, not legal, but equally there are better cartridges for those bigger deer.

I wonder if the 6.5x54MS is legal for fallow and red deer in the UK

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I wonder if the 6.5x54MS is legal for fallow and red deer in the UK

It very much depends on the load you use. The original 156gn loading - no - that’s why large numbers were traded in against new 270 win.

However if you load a 140gn bullet at c 2650 fps the yes it is legal.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

I have shot deer with them

I don't hunt deer with .22 Centerfires myself, but that's because I have a plethora of other calibers that I preferto use.

quote:

I find them lacking in certain situations so I don't use them.

So, please describe the instances in which you have used a .22 Centerfire and found it lacking.

I don't use them in those situation because they are lacking.

The situations are Drive hunting, stalking in thick woods. Stand hunting in thick woods. Hunting close to property line.

I own 8 or so 22 center fires. I have shot 10's of thousands of rounds through them. I have shot deer with them.

I know very well what their capabilities are.

When it comes to hard hunting conditions where you might have to take a less then perfect shot. They are lacking..

Use them if you want no sweat off my back. Come hunt in the north deep north woods where you most likely get one chance at a legal deer.

That chance might only be running through thick woods. Having to break both shoulders so they don't get away.

Then tell me how great the 22 center fires are.

A tack hammer will drive a 6 inch spike. A large framing hammer does it better.

I would not take a shot on a running deer as my first shot no matter the rifle. Even a 50 bmg is not going to help me in that situation. A load of buckshot, maybe, but your situation is different. I choose to wait on a deer to stand still and present a shot I know I can make.

quote:

I would not take a shot on a running deer as my first shot no matter the rifle

Sounds like a personal problem.

Being able to shoot running game is a matter of practice.

Rabbit hunting is a good place to start. Rabbit hunting with a 22rf is great practice.

Jack O'Conner wrote about burning thousands of rounds on jack rabbits.

Rabbit hunting with hounds is great fun and interesting when using a 22RF.

Also great practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I know this from experience.

The very definition of knowledge is our ability to discern information from experience and apply logic. We learn from observation and scientific principles.

That fallow was hit by a 60gr VMax angling down into the thematic area between the two shoulders. The reaction to the shot was a typical hard hit deer that wobbles and staggers away.

Sam followed up with 2 dogs in very thick bush but could not get a shot. This went on for 10 minutes. Suddenly the deer broke cover and ran.
With the 7mm08, the damage would have been far greater and the animal would not recover.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:

quote:

I've lost a fallow deer at 120 meters shot with my 223 Rem . I am sure i would not have lost that animal in an open clearing if I was using my 7mm08

You didn't do it, you can speculate you wouldn't have lost it.

The Hornady VMax is a varmint bullet that is designed to fragment and not penetrate. I think the loss of the animal was more from using the wrong bullet, not the wrong caliber.

Two of my daughters use the 64 grain SP Winchester deer load in their 223s which has a much tougher bullet designed to work on medium game.

Given the availability of good bullets, there is no reason not to use the .223. I am loading the 55 grain TTSX at 3294 fps MV from a 24" Contender barrel. It is surgically accurate, and yes, I've put it through the shoulders of hogs. And I've yet to recover one from game (The bullet in the two photos was taken from test medium at 175 yards and had opened to .489".)

Out to 175 yards, I'd have no qualms about pulling the trigger on the biggest hog or buck out there. Under good conditions, I'd even consider 200.

But if you go around sticking frangible varmint bullets into shoulders, you are only asking for trouble and have no right to blame the cartridge for user error.

The TSX is my bullet in a .223 for deer.

I tried to break both shoulders on a large buck to see if the 60 gr Seirra would work, it exploded on the shoulder and the deer escaped to be found some days later..I should have known better but was very young and foolish. Stay off the shoulders even with the early Ballistic tips and a 30-06, that blew up on a shoulder shot, instant kill but the lungs looked like they had been shot with a shotgun and #9 shot. the on side should looked like a plate of hamburger bout 6 inches of non penetrated hash..

Regardless of what you shoot its not the caliber that fails, its poor judgement and lack of knowledge or judgement.Thats the bottom line!

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
The TSX is my bullet in a .223 for deer.

That is what I used. Worked very well.

The .223 and 55 grain TTSX worked beautifully Thanksgiving morning.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:

quote:

When it comes to hard hunting conditions where you might have to take a less then perfect shot. They are lacking..

But a magnum will drop them in their tracks even with a poorly placed shot?

I’m an old goat I never take less than a perfect shot…
Upstate ny skaneateles lake bear swamp
We grow hops and vegetables.
The deer are a very big problem in the veggies.
Sit in ;a row and wait..,, I’ve shot several that would look at you like wtf.
Cancer,arthritis, heart and lung disease has me just laying on the bench with a 10 pound rifle.
I know my limitations gentleman