they are talking like they may legalize any centerfire rifle this year.

while I wouldnt tote one on most hunts but where I`m looking to fill a freezer with near unlimited doe tags I could see where a 40 gr bullet behind the ear would be very deadly and easier to clean than one shot with the 300RUM.

If you're certain of headshots a 204 will suffice; so will a 17 Remington I suppose.

PLACEMENT AND PENETRATION KILLS

Don't you have anything heavier?

no way no how - have a bit of respect for the animal you are killing. Sure it might do it, but what if you miss? use something big enuf

If you miss it doesn't matter what caliber weapon you use.

Shoot the deer in the head..If you are confident in your abilities, a 22 rimfire will kill them....

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:
If you're certain of headshots a 204 will suffice; so will a 17 Remington I suppose.

.... as will a .22 Hornet. In head-shooting deer, caliber is much less important than precision.

The .204 has performed extremely well on "nanny eradication trials" so far out to 300 yards!! With the 32's or the 40's!!! The percent of lethal kill shots was 100% on a total of 14 old nannies!!! (so I've been told!!!) GHD

The largest mule deer I saw from last fall was taken with a 22-250. There isn't a whole lot of difference between these 2 rifles, I'd have no problem hunting deer with the 204.

I wouldnt do it. Id use enough gun...i think ive heard that before somewhere??

quote:

Originally posted by Josh K.:
I wouldnt do it. Id use enough gun...i think ive heard that before somewhere??

And ,Josh I hope you hear it again and again. From experience pushing the envelope is a bunch of Just my humble opinion. roger

IMO, using a 204 for a deer "hunt" falls into the category of a "stunt". Why use a 204 when there are so many other cartridges better suited for the task? Just because you can?

Both in Nebraska and Wisconsin the .223 is legal and I can attest that it just plain works.....and one must shoot it well just like he does a much bigger gun.....I wouldn't mind hunting with the .204 and I'd limit my shots to those I knew I could place well.....it's a matter of knowing the limitations and working within them.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Both in Nebraska and Wisconsin the .223 is legal and I can attest that it just plain works.....and one must shoot it well just like he does a much bigger gun.....I wouldn't mind hunting with the .204 and I'd limit my shots to those I knew I could place well.....it's a matter of knowing the limitations and working within them.

22 centerfires are also legal here in Ca. A lot of guys out here use the 223 for blacktails. I myself prefer something a bit larger.

quote:

22 centerfires are also legal here in Ca.

and in Montana, and in Texas that I know of.....and that I've hunted.

The issue of what cartridge to use is first of all a legal one.....one should obey the law (did I say that?) and secondarily a ethical one....one must use a cartridge that he has confidence is adequate for the job.....but ethics are personal.....I can only hold myself responsible for my ethics.....not others.....the bottom line is this:

If it's legal shut up and control your own self....let others do as they wish.....we cannot impose our ethics on others....only upon ourselves......and don't we have better things to do than get huffy about someone else's choice of hunting rounds?

Forty years ago many mule deer droped to my 22 Varminter. ( It hadn't been adopted into a commercial rifle yet).Sadly in experimenting with different bullets a number of mulies were wounded and took a long follow up.

With some shame some were not found.

Shot placement was not the problem; bullet construction, high velocity and immature lack of understanding were the culprits. I know perfectly well that an attitude as I see here and other threads are going to facilitate some young buck to travel the mistaken path that I and silent others have followed.

craigster as far as I,m concerned has the more mature approach. Good technology keeps coming up with better and easier to use tools. The prudent take advantage of this. Others only think they know better. roger

An errant bullet cliping a shoulder bone or unseen twig from a .204 isn't going to perform as would a 165gr. .308 bullet moving at 2500 ft./sec.

Is there a 204 bullet that would hold its integrity and penetrate deep enough to kill a deer?

Perry

Nosler's making a 40gr bullet.

I think the .204 is about a good a varmint gun as has come along is some time. But I think that someone that really wants to use one on big game should be given his chance in Alaska on Grizz. With no backup.

It's my understanding that .223 and .17 cal rifles ae verey popular with Native Americans in Alaska. They are used on the Big Bears as well as mosse and caribou with out any problem. These round wouldn't be my preference for big Bears, but I wouldn't hesitate to use one if that was all that is avaible. For white tail, mule deer or caribou. I'll use a .223 cal rifle any day.
Dr B

Based on shooting a few deer with the 22-250, I think that bullet construction and placement is critical with smaller bore rifles. If Nosler made a 40 grain Partition or if Barnes made a 30-something grain X, I'd say that the 204 would be an acceptable deer cartridge in the hands of a person who knew what he/she was doing. However, in the hands of the "average hunter", I'd think that a lot of deer would be wounded and lost. Of course, the "average hunter" wounds and loses quite a few deer as it is.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

22 centerfires are also legal here in Ca.

""If it's legal shut up""
""don't we have better things to do than get huffy ""?

Bad hair day VD? roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

22 centerfires are also legal here in Ca.

""If it's legal shut up""
""don't we have better things to do than get huffy ""?

Bad hair day VD? roger

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

""If it's legal shut up""
""don't we have better things to do than get huffy ""?

Bad hair day VD?

[/QUOTE] Is this a reasonable likeness of you? Huffy? Huffy? We don't need no Stinkin Huffy!! Or a shut up for that matter.Less time on the computer and more in the field may improve your disposition. I really find it hard to believe you posted " Shut Up" Again Leinenkugel's may be the path to a politer society. roger

For deer hunting i would carry nothing less than a .243 but i dont even go that low smallest cal i got is a .270WSM. From there its all .30s

No deer where I come from but what happens if you miss the brain and hit the deer in the jaw with a .204 ? Is your next shot likely to kill a running animal ?

Why?

quote:

Originally posted by Bushchook:
No deer where I come from but what happens if you miss the brain and hit the deer in the jaw with a .204 ? Is your next shot likely to kill a running animal ?

What happens if you miss the brain and hit the deer in the jaw with a 300 magnum? Anyone who is not totally familiar and skilled with their equipment shouldn't be taking such a shot in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
I think the .204 is about a good a varmint gun as has come along is some time. But I think that someone that really wants to use one on big game should be given his chance in Alaska on Grizz. With no backup.

If you want to finance the trip I'll go. With no backup! People kill'em every season with arrow's from yardages that I think is just flat insane. You don't think a properly placed and well constructed bullet traveling at 4200 fps won't do some terrible damage to a bears cranium?
And no I'm not saying that everyone should go to Alaska and start blasting away at brown bears with 204's so don't even go there.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim White:

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
I think the .204 is about a good a varmint gun as has come along is some time. But I think that someone that really wants to use one on big game should be given his chance in Alaska on Grizz. With no backup.

If you want to finance the trip I'll go. With no backup!

Jim if your serious your fool enough to pay for your own trip.

Jim if your serious your fool enough to pay for your own trip. [/QUOTE]

If I could afford to go hunt brown bear a 204 sure as Hell wouldn't be on my list of calibers to take along.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim White:
Jim if your serious your fool enough to pay for your own trip.

If I could afford to go hunt brown bear a 204 sure as Hell wouldn't be on my list of calibers to take along.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for solving that problem. I was begining to think the air around Prescott was begining to get toxic and affecting your powers of reason, Jim, perhaps from the influx of all us Californians moving there. My wife says I can't move there. Roger

[/QUOTE]
Thanks for solving that problem. I was begining to think the air around Prescott was begining to get toxic and affecting your powers of reason, Jim, perhaps from the influx of all us Californians moving there. My wife says I can't move there. Roger[/QUOTE]

Roger, If you're comin over here to Arizona you better get a move on cause we're runnin out of room right quick! Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Jim White:

Roger, If you're comin over here to Arizona you better get a move on cause we're runnin out of room right quick! Jim[/QUOTE]

Thought I'd wait till Concord got a Wal Mart and check out property there. roger

Back to the subject at hand:

Having had to trail two different TX whitetails shot with 60-grain Partitions out of a .223 for over 600 yards (both shot through the lungs), I say that if you choose to go to the woods with a .204 Ruger for whitetails, you have no respect for the animals, and will get no respect from me.

I used to shoot for the head, when I was stupid and thought I was a really good shot... But then I hit the btm. jaw on a spike with a .270 in TX about ten years ago. The little buck ran off with bottom jaw loose and flapping. No blood trail at all, for obvious reasons. It bothered me a lot, and I felt even worse when I found the skull the next winter, ~400 yards from where I shot him, in a gully I didn't know existed. I know that deer died of dehydration, because he couldn't drink, and couldn't get liquid from the grass or leaves either... I will never head shoot again. They just deserve better than that, even if they are just animals...

Use something big enough to do the job right, shoot ribs and lungs, and go get the knife ready. As far as I am concerned, anything less is irresponsible. JMHO...

Doubless
Just becuse you shoot a "propper deer rifle" is no guaranty that you won't have to track a lung shot deer 600 yd or more. In La. I have tracked more than a few that were shot with 30-06's and 270's. Some were never found even with pecies of lung in the blood. I read a story in one of the mags. of a game warden who shot a mule deer that had scars in his chest from being shot through the lungs years before.
What I do know is when a deer is shot in the chest with a 22-250, and the bullet preforms properly, the tissue damage is massive. The whole lung structure looks like current jelly, and most of the time it's a bang flop. They don't die any deader or quicker with a "proper deer rifle" JHO
Dr B

Hello Doubless,
Well said. Varmints, varmint hunters, varmint rifles/calibers should do what they do best and that is shoot varmints. The word varmint tends to imply that such critters are either pests, destructive to people, or of no food or commercial value.
Any animal worthy of being sought for game or food should be dealt with respect and any chance of the cartridge being used in a not perfect manner and only bring about a slow miserable death should not be used. With so many calibers well suited to hunting game animals, the use of these varmint calibers is not what I would call a good hunting practice.
Roy Weatherby brought about a whole new world when he introduced his hyper velocity rounds but he also lead a great many people to think that high velocity was a easy substitute to learning to stalk and deliver accurate shot placement in the vitals of the game being hunted. As pointed out, deer shot in the jaw with whatever is simply a deer shot in the jaw! Common sense will tell you to take the shot in the largest target area being presented and where the impact will bring the game down. Bottom line, the 204 is just another varmint caliber along with the 223, 22-250, 220 Swift, etc. and was never intended to hunt game with, but vermin.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
Doubless
They don't die any deader or quicker with a "proper deer rifle" JHODr B

The only times I've had long follow ups or lost my game was using fast ,small caliber bullets. Never had that happen with 6.5s, 7mms,30 cals. 8mms or 35s. There must be some lesson here to be learned. roger

Hey guy's I've got an idea! This subject has been hashed, mashed, sliced and diced and served up every way possible under the sun. Some like light weight high velocity bullets. Some like heavy weight slow moving bullets. Some hit'em with compact trucks and some hit'em with dump trucks. Whatever your choice is, employ it, enjoy it and keep it to yourself. There can be no resoulution to this question. Opinions are like assholes and everybody has one. This is supposed to be a place to share opinions and not call each other assholes. Like Rodney said "Can't we all just get along?"
There is no such thing as a "proper deer rifle". It's a mythical beast that does not exist. There is no such thing as a proper deer "cartridge". Use what you will and don't bad mouth what I use. If ever there was an area where "personal preference" rules, this is it. You ain't changin me and I ain't changin you so why don't we just give it a rest for awhile. Jim

doubless, What he heck were you shooting at a "spike" for anyway????????????? LITTLE DEAD BUCKS never grow up to be BIG LIVE BUCKS!!! Shoot a nanny if you just have to kill something!!! And if using the .204, put it's eye out!!! GHD

Not the 204 unless you are shooting a yearling.Go for something larger a 243 too 270,when shooting Deer you want it too drop not run.

No, I sure won't be using it, though I know it would kill if used with extreme care & you have the discipline to only take close double lung opportunities. But there are limits & I believe the 20 may be pushing it, for sure they should use the heavier bullets I have heard about.

Doubless, I am curious. What range were these
Deer shot with 60Gr. Partitions? Were they loaded to decent velocities? Were these Deer double lunged or shot at an angle?

No, I don't Deer hunt with a 223 or 22cal. for that matter, but in 70's-80's me & my brothers shot several with factory loads & handloads, mostly 55 grain & we did not lose any nor did we have to look any distance for one. But, we had strict rules when we did this.
(1) We did not shoot one over 75 yards so that we had maximum shock.
(2) If we used reloads, we made sure they had good velocities.
(3) They had to be broadside for double lung hits & thet never failed.
(4) We never shot under 55 gr. bullets & no bal. tip or hollow pts. except fotr 1 69Gr.MK at 20 yards.

Even so, we decided to quit while we were ahead.

If the Part. was used this exact way, I would wonder if too much of the rear stayed together, made a small exit & zinged away. wouln't have thought so, but you never know. I would like to know.

One of the locals killed over 100 Deer using either the 55Corlokt or 55Powerpt. Can't be sure, but I believe he did not lose any.
Another killed about 50, I believe he lost 1 or 2. All told, we are talking about 200 Deer killed with a couple of loses, no loses if shot the way I described, these numbers would compare well with other hunters with bigger rounds, but that is experience in use showing up instead of a good Deer round.

I have also heard alot of other reports like that of bartsche with the bigger 22 rounds.
When the Swift first came out & the Varmiter,
you had much higher velocities than I have been talking about with the old, softer bullets, a very bad combo with many bad results. Conversely, now some use the Partition, TSX or Swift in these bigger 22's with very different results.

I post this only to show what can be done under my stated conditions when cooler heads prevail.

Now for what sound like a contradition but isn't
for those who have killed tons of Deer. I DO NOT
ADVOCATE THE USE OF 22 CENTERFIRES (OR UNDER) FOR DEER HUNTING!!!! The reasons are because of the IF'S I mentioned at the beginning.
(1) I want to be able to shoot at long range, at the longest range that I can make a good hit with confidence. Rules out the 22.
(2) I want to be able to shoot Deer at any angle necessary to penetrate the vitals of said animal. This includes the very decisive high shoulder shot (used if Deer is at the edge of clearcut or property line for instant stop), or
to shoot through both shoulders. This also rule out the 22's.
(3) I am not talking about a bad shot or missing
the vitals, but if the shot is marginal & hits the edge of the vitals, I want a bigger wound channel for the extra margin of error. In addition to our trigger pull not being perfect
as we are Human, the Deer can move slightly during the trigger squeeze or we can hit a small branch just before the Deer (no, I am NOT talking about brush busting), the 22 bullet is more adversely affected than a larger bullet.

Myself and everyone I hunt with now use 25 cal. & over & in the smaller calibers only certain bullets. We have opportunities occassionally for
Large Bottomland Grain Fed Bucks & this goes back to what I said about Margin Of Error.

Just a few thoughts combined with experience.