I shot an antelope once in Montana, using a 223 with a fast moving 40 grain Nosler Ballistic tip...

Upon examination the bullet had gone thru and destroyed both lungs as I hit behind the shoulder...

MV was 4000 fps, and the distance I shot it at was about 200 yds...

After it was hit, the antelope took off and went about 300 yds before collapsing...

Could of been a lot of factors for that happening... but of all the testing and results that I have seen... I'd trust a slower moving 204 bullet over a faster high speed 204 bullet....

I'd use a 204 if a great opportunity presented itself and that was all I had available...

But I'd be picking my shots carefully....

Granted I haven't shot a deer with a 204... and that counts for a lot.. I am only philosophising until I have actually done it...

Too many guys on this forum, condemn something that they haven't personally tried...

I really think I'd try it only if it was my second tag.. I would need a lot more confidence in the round first...

but good luck if you try it.. and let us know the results..

cheers
seafire

seafire,

Good post and great advice.

Kinda like taking the lug nuts off a diesel rig with a dremel tool. I'm sure it spins fast enough. Take the right tool for the job!!

IMO, The right tool is the one that gets the job done....If you use your tool right. I have killed deer with a 22 lr. Shot them in the head. One doesn't need a 30-378 to kill a deer, although it is adequate. The way I deer hunt is via a stand. The deer are usually standing still when I shoot them. So a head shot is as easy enough if you can shoot. A 32 or 40 grain bullet will get the job done if you do your part. I shot a doe several years ago broadside with a 22 mag. She didn't run and I am not sure why...I wanted her to run out of my wheat field...Had to drag the deer off. I can and will continue to shoot deer with smaller calibers. I assure you if I want to kill one with a .204, I will do it....Go ahead and use your large calibers...I don't mind. JMHO


Cheers

These questions and responses always make the assumption that all deer are created equal.
In my limited travels around the country I can assure you they are not.
What works well on a 50 lb. swamp deer in FL would be considerably less potent on a 300 lb. mature mule deer buck in CO. Both however would die from an accurate placement of small caliber bullet....problem is the average Joe shooting a handful of bullets thru the year has no place even trying. He is far better off using a larger caliber that requires slightly less precision to do the job.

skb2706, you just touched on one of the main problems I have with these post. Seems whenever the latest whiz-bang comes out somebody wants to know if it can be used on deer. And a bunch of folks will swear that it is lightning in a bottle on deer. And add the tag line of "properly placed", thereby intimating that they are cold blooded, calulating, dead-eyed marksmen. That may or may not be correct, BUT, then the box a year hunters (which is most of them) read the post and figure "well, if he can, so can I" and so you get a bunch of goobers in the woods spraying and praying with what is, at best, a marginal cartridge.
And, the post of "if I want to shoot a deer with a .204, I will" stands on its own childish merit. (it couldn't have been more plain if he'd typed in, "neener, neener, neener". These are living, feeling creatures we are shooting and we owe them some respect.
Too bad so many hunters learned their hunting ethics watching snuff movies and playing video games.

iwzbeeman,

Personally I didn't call anyone any names!!! And as far as a bunch of goobers...One who lives in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And I am willing to bet that I shoot ten fold the ammo you do a year be it paper,deer, and varmits or whatever. If the law states any centerfire rifle cartridge, Who are you to say Someone can't or shouldn't use it? I can tell you who you are... IMO you are one who needs more confidence in your shooting ability, your weapons, more practice, maybe a .204 or three and for sure nothing in a semi auto.... As far as spraying the woods... It is a little hard to spray when the first and only shot you take kills the deer from a ruger #1 in a 22-250. By the way that is a single shot rifle. If you are not confident about your shooting abilities and you need to spray the woods, My opinion is you should stay in the house...And for the neener, neener, neener...That wasn't the point.....The point was I can and will shoot deer in the head if I choose to do so, I don't care if it is a 17 caliber or a 30 caliber....I am that confident with my rifles and my ability. I take deer every year with a 22-250. I pick and place my shots well. I don't just up and empty my gun at deer, lol unless I am caring the ruger #1 of course... One shot is sufficient...And no where did I state I was a dead eye marksman...lol IF you don't like my post don't read them....lol

As seafire stated : Too many guys on this forum, condemn something that they haven't personally tried...



Cheers

Jwzbeeman: I would MUCH rather see a Deer Hunter afield with a Rifle in caliber 204 Ruger who is willing to wait for AND carefully place a killing shot into the Deer than some of the "big bore" slobs I have seen wound Deer and Elk during my lifetime!
I own 3 (three) Rifles in 204 Ruger and in my mind I am certain they will kill Deer. I don't advocate they be used to do so.
Your intimation that all Hunters who choose small bores to Hunt Deer with, will end up wounding that game - is fallacious, on its face!
I know better!
The small bore crowd holds within it just about the same exact ratio of slob Hunters as does the big bore crowd!
We all owe the game we try to harvest a carefully planned, executed and humane death blow from our weapons!
I have come acrosss MANY Elk and Deer over the decades I have Hunted, with their legs flopping as they suffer along from an ill concieved bullet wound!
I hope you are not trying to intimate that none of these wounds came from the "big bore crowd"! Again, I know better!
Careful shot placement with a proper bullet by all Hunters will alleviate most all undue suffering from our Game Animals.
Its that simple.
I wish I had kept track of all the animals I have seem wounded and/or lost by Hunters using "Magnums" and "Big Bores" that I have been privey to - first hand! I choose to try to put these things out of my mind but for some reason I can't forget them.
Hunters that use Big Bores and Magnums DO NOT automatically kill the game that is struck with their bullets!
Careful shot placement with proper bullets does though!
I often cite the success's of the family of my main Montana Hunting partner. He, his wife and his two eldest daughters use a Rifle in caliber 223 Remington to harvest amazing amounts of Big Game here in Montana. Over the 9 seasons I have seen them use this Rifle I know they have killed far in excess of 100 Whitetail Deer, Mule Deer and Antelope! The father alone killed 8 Whitetailed Deer with it last season alone!!! In addition one of the daughters killed a monster 31" Mule Deer and a Mt. Goat with this "small bore" Rifle! Both one shot witnessed kills!
I have personally observed this family kill 20 - 25 head of game with this Rifle and not one animal lost - that I know of!
The big secret, jwzbeeman, is - careful shot placement and patience!
With the new 45 grain bullets from a 204 Ruger I would have no hesitation in trying to harvest an Antelope or a Whitetailed Doe in the country I Hunt.
Careful shot placement is the key!
If you are real nice to me I will relay to you the details of how one of my Hunting partners father harvested a 5x5 Bull Elk with a 5mm Remington Rimfire Rifle back when this "whiz-bang" was new!
Again I contend that a poorly placed shot from a magnum is just as painful and unfortunate for the game as one from a 204!
Carefully placed shots by all Hunters will ease your concerns about "childish behavior" more than condemning a particular segment of the Hunting public and wishing they weren't there! They are there!
Profess instead, careful and patient placement of shots rather than condemnation of using small bores.
Long live careful shot placement!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

at risk of being called a liar I wont say how many deer I have killed,but its enough that nerves are no longer a factor and waiting on that perfect shot is not a problem.

I have larger calibers but if I am going on a meat hunt where I know I am head shooting or passing someone enlighten me as to why I wouldnt take the most accurate setup I have.the blinds I hunt from have benchrests built in and ranges marked on the wall.and besides if the deer makes it 50 yards in the wrong direction I am not allowed to retrieve it.

go back to my orignal question,why wouldnt a 204 work on head shot does??

cold blooded and calculating??? thats me

YOU know, I'd go out deer hunting with a guy like VG and him hauling his 204.. I have confidence that he can use his equipment and he knows it, both its advantages and its limitations...

but for the average joe schmoe, I wouldn't have that confidence in his abilities... I'd be bothered and ready for having to do some tracking if the average Nimrod was toting a 204 or a 30/378 Weatherby....he wouldn't know where to place the shot with the 204, and wouldn't probably hit the deer with the 30/378.. he'd flinch and the bullet would be in the air at a 45 degree angle and climbing, coming down about 3 counties over...

I can see why guides are more concerned to see if a client can use the rifle he is carrying, instead of getting all hung up on what he is carrying......

Funny, I'd still feel more confident in a 204 with an MV of about 3000 fps or less, than a 204 with an MV of 4200 fps....if I was carrying one afield...

I guess I also have to put faith in the projectile loaded in the cartridge.. I put a lot more faith in a slower moving ballistic tip than I do a fast one, in that caliber...

Since the market hasn't migrated into the making deep penetrating bullets to my knowledge in 20 cal bore, I'd still probably use one of my bigger cannons, like a 22.250 or a bazooka sized 243....

for deer and antelope I can see the 204 being a good cartridge once decent and proper bullets are available for it, not varmint bullets...

is Barnes working on an X bullet in this bore?

cheers
seafire

quote:

but for the average joe schmoe, I wouldn't have that confidence in his abilities... I'd be bothered and ready for having to do some tracking if the average Nimrod was toting a 204 or a 30/378 Weatherby....he wouldn't know where to place the shot with the 204, and wouldn't probably hit the deer with the 30/378.. he'd flinch and the bullet would be in the air at a 45 degree angle and climbing, coming down about 3 counties over...

That's why I don't like the boasting of what you can do with a peashooter unless you explain the full detail.

I also think what you can do, verses what you should do, are two seperate items.

As for 22's etc on deer, the game wardens say the poacher's swear by them, low noise level, etc. I'll not be in this class of hunters..........

ROFLMFAO!!!!! I rest my case.
Now we get the "I shoot more ammo that you do" and the "I've kilt about a gazillion deer with a xxx" penis measuring contestants.
Seafire, you can hunt with VG all you want. I pass. If his post are anything like he is in person, I'd maybe last 15 minutes in a truck with him before I'd be trying a head shot on myself.

I have only one question iwzbeeman...



Why wait fifteen minutes?


Now that is funny....ROTFLMAO


Cheers

I have only one question when will this contribute nothing thread die??????? roger

quote:

Originally posted by iwzbeeman:
ROFLMFAO!!!!! I rest my case.
Now we get the "I shoot more ammo that you do" and the "I've kilt about a gazillion deer with a xxx" penis measuring contestants.
Seafire, you can hunt with VG all you want. I pass. If his post are anything like he is in person, I'd maybe last 15 minutes in a truck with him before I'd be trying a head shot on myself.

Every body is a comedian!

Well Beeman.. I try and look at the good and the positives on folks in here... I like VG's posts... Heck all the crap people sling in the rest of these forums pales in ratio to the political forum...

I like a lot of opinions and insights a lot of guys bring to the table....

heck if I took the negatives of people's personalities on the AR forums to heart, I don't think I'd like anyone in here...

but we are all fellow hunters and shooters...

ya mean if one guy says something in 5 words, and the other says in more descriptively in 50 words, somehow he is inferior to the guy who says it in 5 words?

I respect all of my fellow forum members, regardless of their opinions and whether they correspond with mine or not...

even yours Beeman....

so I should use the 300 RUM with 240 SMK`s

Jwbzeeman: You have made no case - how can you rest it?
And by the way how can your mind distort a discussion on Deer Hunting with Rifles to you and your penis? And worse yet why invoke even a hint of using a firearm to harm any innocent human (yourself included!)?
Why don't you invoke your experiences good or bad with small calibers and Deer sized game Hunting or not - but for decorums sake keep your penile problems to yourself or over on your favorite XXX forums - please.

Aggie Dog: For your information I have talked to hundreds of Game Wardens and never ever heard even one profess what poachers prefer for their lawbreaking!
And I resent your inference that folks who do use small bores for Deer Hunting are doing something illegal or unsporting!
Both those inferences are without merit.
What more in the way of details do you need from those who successfully use small bores on Deer? They say they use them and use them successfully - what else is germaine to this discussion?
Perhaps I am missing the point of your post?
I myself have killed Deer and Antelope with centerfire 22 caliber Rifles. It can be done and done effectively - if one is just caring enough to be patient and place ones bullet in the proper spot.
I know - I've done it, I've seen it done and the results have been quite impressive!

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy