I reckon medium sized pigs that have not been wallowing in mud. I have seen one used on pigs, there alright, nothing like how a .270, .308 or 30/06 performs then there is the what I reckon is the ultimate pig gun out to 100 yards the 45/70.

I consider the .243 to be a good fox rifle on windy nights, but I enjoy shooting bigger calibres.

Patrick D
In my own opinion I think that the 243 is marginal at best for red stag on the hill,from experience I had a stag turn away from me at the last second before the rifle went off ,the bullet went in through the paunch,put the deer downbut did not kill it,fortunatly my second shot did,for red stag I now use my 3006 ,that bullet has enough power to carry on through to the heart /lung area

The 243 was the first rifle I used,and gave me more grief than I really needed. I would give the limitations as follows
Deer over 150 lbs
Shots farther than 200 yards
Antelope in 250 yards
Not for young hunters
coyotes 350 yards.
As you can see, this is not my favorite cartridge. There are a lot of better choices out there, at least for the hunting in my area.

BR

To me the .243 is neither the shit nor the shovel

I am amazed by the lack of enthusiasm shown for this round. I remember when all the hacks were talking it up and calling it good for everything up to elk. I started with a 270, went to a 30-06 and hunted with a friend who bought a Browning BLR in 243. The performance this round exhibited was no less than outstanding on large Wyoming mule deer and Antelope. He killed two elk with the rifle and we both agreed the round was not enough gun for average elk hunting. I built a 6mm on a mauser action (because the round feeds slicker than the 243) with a slender 24 inch barrel and I gaurantee you would be lucky to have taken as many deer in a lifetime as I have with this rifle. These were mostly full grown mulie bucks taken in all types of terrain available in Wyoming and around 15 whitetails taken in Texas.

Patrick_D,

In the UK, is there any difficulty in buying a caliber that is bigger than required. For example if you only shot roe deer could you owna 375 or 460 Wby etc.

Thanks.

Mike

Mike375,

You would have difficulty getting anything much larger than, say, 308 for deer. Of course, if boar was the quarry, then having a little more gun would be completely justifiable. But in the case of deer, the police would question the need, given the extra meat damage that would likely be caused. We have to get permission for each type of use we intent for a rifle, so whilst a 375 H&H for target use would be acceptable, it's dubious that it would be permitted for any form of hunting.

To give an idea of the daft rules we put up with I offer this example. A firearms dealer I know is allowed to stalk deer with his .308. That's fine. But his certificate forbids him to shoot anything else with it - so if he sees a fox whilst stalking he can't shoot it - he would be breaking the law. On the other hand, if he takes his .243 his certificate does allow vermin control with that, so he can shoot the fox. True story.

I know there are a few people here who are exceptions to this, but mostly those are people who got those things many years ago, when rules here were much more relaxed.

Patrick

[ 06-12-2002, 12:52: Message edited by: Patrick_D ]

Britain is a small densely populated country with a lot of deer that need shooting. There are safety issues regarding firearms usage in these circumstances over and above some other countries.

A safe backstop is a safe backstop but the backstop for a 100gr 243 is substantialy different to the back stop for a 300gr 375 or 400gr 416. (Don't believe - me look at the range danger areas for 308 vs 50cal)

The practical limit for deer is 308/30-06/8mm. There are occasions when something larger may be granted, these normaly involve a rifle whose primary use is foreign but which is not so huge as to scare the police (to wit the 9.3x62!)

Firearms licencing is actualy improving in England at present. It is much easier to get moderators for stalking/foxing, we now have a right of appeal and rogue forces are being brought into line.

1894, don't mean to be contrary (well, actually.... ), but I disagree with your statement that a backstop for a 243 can be less substantial than that for a 375. The way I was taught, a back stop is solid. It's not a matter of size. You either have a backstop (like a mountain!), or you don't. FWIW, Dutch.

Indeed it has to be solid it's just that for me the backstop is also what's behind or to the side of the backstop.

As you know bullets do funny things even in perfect condition (see Skid Marks thread).

Given that most people agree that bigger bullets driven faster are better killers of game you will see that bigger lumps of richocheting metal travelling faster are going to travel further and be more dangerous at the other end.

This in turn means that the safe distance behind the 'stop' must be greater.

Seeing as in woodland you rarely see further than 100yards the potential for a 375 to hurt an unseen walker must surely be greater. Or to put it another way a house 500yds past the backstop might be safe with a 243 but not with a 416.

The .243 is a rabbit gun.

Hiwall,

Not so. The .243 is only adequate for standing rabbits. I have heard of failures on running rabbits.

Given a choice, I would not choose a .243 for anything larger than a mule deer. But, if that were the only caliber available, I would not pass up an elk hunt with it, provided I could use a bullet at least as tough as the 100 grain Rem. Corelockt, preferably a Nosler Partition in the same weight.

U.K requirements to legally shoot deer:
nothing less than 240 cal in England
min 2450fps
min 1750ftlbs
min 100gn bullet

Scotland
roe deer any 22 centrefire
fallow/red/sika as England

Griff

I do not own one nor have I shot any deer with one.

I agree with Patrick D about the lack of power over the legal threshold of 1700 ft pounds. I calculate that with a 100 grain bullet you need to keep it faster than 2766 fps, and with a 80 grain bullet the limit is 3096 fps just to keep above the minimum legal limit of 1700 ft pounds. But it is a pretty hard law to police IMO!

However, do I really want to be shooting deer with a relatively light bullet at 3000 fps, when most of my encounters with deer are going to be under 100 metres, usually within a wood? I can think of many other cartridges I would rather use in such circumstances. Meat damage – an issue for UK hunters - is likely to be less with a bullet travelling at 2500 at the muzzle IMHO. Assuming comparison with a similarly constructed bullet.

On the hill where I need to shoot out to 200 metres plus there are plenty of advantages in using a heavier slower bullet that will be less affected by a crosswind, and retain downrange energy better than the 243. Bullet drop at such ranges with your “average” slow bullet is fairly incidental on a target the size of red or sika engine room.

“Everybody” has one (even 1894!), and ammunition is sold in most gun shops in the UK. So for the average UK user who bangs away at deer and foxes, and who does not reload and is not too fussed by the issues mentioned above, then fine, use, enjoy and don’t look back.
If I had a 243 for deer I would use a 105 grain bullet and draw the line at roe. I would get out my 6.5x55 if Fallow Red and Sika were on the menu. For Red in my small bramble wood surrounded by hostile landowners I will use my 8x57 with a slow (2500 fps) 200 grain bullet and hope to anchor everything within my boundaries.

If I got into fox shooting then I would get a 222 or a 22-250.

For my own personal use, the 6mm Rem and 243 are coyote guns. A good friend's father who hunted with us (or the other way around, really) graduated down to the 243 and never used anything else for anything (elk, moose, mulies, whitetails)else. Of course, he was in his seventies at the time, and mostly sat and waited for the game to come to him. So I guess I can see both sides, but again, for me personally, not enough gun for larger game. - Dan

Up in till a few years ago I never deer hunted with my 243 because I just didn't think it was enough gun for whitetail.I finally desided to take it one day and kill one dead in its tracks.I have killed 3 more deer with it since then and everyone has fell dead.That is something that I can't say about my 7mm,30-06,270 or 300 mag.I will have to say...I like em.

I have several friends who hunt whitetails in Virginia and swear by the .243; they swear it kills like lightning.

The failures I have heard about always tend to fall into the category of the bullet not performing properly -- not opening up -- thus leaving little wound channel -- thus little bleeding -- and the animal is lost in the woods because it could not be tracked without the services of a professional tracker. Perhaps in these cases a larger diameter bullet would have generated more wound channel and the additional blood on the ground would make the difference. Who knows?

Be sure of your bullet and your shot.

Personally, I think it is best to hunt with a rifle that you are not afraid of -- not the slightest hint of a flinch -- so I always recommend hunting deer with the largest caliber you can shoot a 20 rd box of cartridges with and never flinch. For me that is the 7x57 Mauser. Many of my friends hunt with the 270 and the 30-06, but will agree with me (in a quiet moment with no one else listening) that shooting 20 rounds through them is "no fun".

I am not a fan of small cailbers, expept fo rmy 6PPC

Actually I AM a big bore enthousiast, but I also like the small stuff too. It's the in between that does the least for me. (but I like mid bores too)

Ok. seriously, I think a .243 is not enough when you don't put your shot in the right place.

Otherwise it could kill just about anything. In theory.

deerdogs,

For my own choice, I would use the 6.5x55 on deer and probably use the .243 (and .222 rem) more than anything else on fox. The 6.5 is an excellent compromise, and my older son (age 13) has used it on many occasions without developing a flinch. The next project is a 7-08, and it will be interesting to see where that goes. But the 6.5 has the SD to deliver substantial knockdown - well above the .243.

Patrick

Patrick

This is the very reason I consider the 6.5x55 the perfect all round deer rifle for the British stalker who reloads.

When is any caliber not enough gun? When you think it's not enough gun.

When I go hunting I want total confidence in my gun and bullet. I want no nagging doubts in my mind at the moment of truth.

With anything bigger and more important than a Central Texas Whitetail, I'd have nagging doubts with a .243 in my hands.

The .243 is great for whitetail/muledeer/axisdeer/sikadeer size deer and probably for smaller varieties of red deer. I would never hesitate to use it on any large type red deer, caribou or black bear with 100 grain partitions.

I have a friend that shoots nothing but, on the local White Tails. He's not much of a rifleman. Once I got him to use 100 gr Nosler Partition load in his .243 he has manage to collect every deer he has shot. I think the problem the 243 has is that some of the loads were not up to snuff for some the game shot. I myself have just one 243, I like the 6.5 x 55 as a min for big game but that's just me. I have been doing some shooting with my 243 and 90gr barne's X's. It works well, they shoot better in my rifle than the Nosler. Its an ok Deer class cartridge if you load the right bullets for it.

Went hog hunting over the fourth of july holidays and hit a 150 pound hog just behing the shoulder with a 100 grain Hornady Interlock boat tail. I was in a tree stand and the bullet went in behind the shoulder blade and exited just above the sternum on the oposite side. Hog ran 15 steps and that was it. Internal damage extensive, meat damage nill. Muzzle velocity just under 3100 fps range 20 yards. Good bullet performance. This has been the result I have been getting out of my 6mm for years in a wide variety of situations and until the advent of feral hogs on my place I always used either the Sierra 85 grain BTHP or Hornady's 87 grain soft point.

Rickt300:

That 3100 FPS with a 100 gr bullet is pretty stout for a .243. I assume that's a handload. Do you have the data?

I don't have my Nosler #3 in front of me right now, but their listing for a 100 gr bullet (I used the Interlock too) propelled by a max load of IMR 7828 was potent blacktail medicine.

Nosler #4 lowers the max charge of 7828.

Paul Barnard

I've read all the posts on this thread and am amazed at the tone of many. You will not find my name on the list of "Great .243 Shooters." (I have only owned two of them...one I just purchased.) However, I would like to toss my thoughts out on this subject.

1. Some of the most spectacular kills on big muleys that I have ever witnessed were performed by the "lowly" 222 Remington. I have killed a few myself with the .22 Rem Mag, and I've seen skads of big muleys dropped in their tracks by .22/250s. All of these little hotrods were driving 50-55 gr bullets. (Considering this PERSONAL observation, I have to snicker when someone starts telling me that a .243, throwing bullets twice this weight and at around the same velocity WON'T work as a deer and antelope rifle. This notion simply defies logic.)
2. On the other hand, my first .243 never made it to the mountains to hunt the big deer because I had such totally erratic results with it on varmints. The rifle was powerful, fast and flat and easy to shoot...but when the bullet caught up with the varmits it seemed it wanted to either blow the varmits to pieces or go thru them like AP's. (Sierras were the worst offenders by far!) I never doubted the rifle. The culprit was clearly the bullets I was using.
This was in the mid 1960s. I concluded all 6mm bullets were crap and didn't pursue the subject as I had plenty of other rifles to worry about. Nor did I try every bullet on the market to find one that would work properly.

3. Today I am convinced the .243 is STILL plenty adequate on any deer or antelope in North America. I think to claim otherwise is silliness and I suspect 95% of those who do badmouth the .243 have little if any first hand experience with the cartridge. But based on my early experiences with 6mm bullets, I would suggest any and all .243 shooters KNOW their bullets performance and pick it carefully. SORRY BULLETS CAN MAKE ANY RIFLE LOOK STUPID.
And I think the .243 has been plagued by more bad bullets than most calibers. Give it a good bullet and it will CERTAINLY perform.

I might also add one other observation about the .243. Thanks to it's low recoil and generally light weight rifles, this rifle is very ofter put in the hands of youngsters as their first rifle, women and perhaps old timers who need these qualities. I know there are exceptions in this group of shooters, but my point is the .243 often arms some of our least experienced shooters. I suggest that this little statistic also has a lot to do with many people's bad feelings about the capability of this cartridge. On the other hand, many P-dog shooters and probably some of our best marksmen use the .243 like a death ray...but by deer season they are eager to hunt with something different just for the variety.

I believe the .243 in the hands of a good marksman and with good bullets will turn in about as good a performance on deer and antelope as anything we have going. IMHO

[ 07-08-2002, 00:24: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

Boy I have a 9yo that just returned from RSA, on his first hunt ever, and he took 5 animals with 5 shots with a .243win/95grn Partition. Hell I clobbered a caracal and 2 jackals with it and didnt want to put it down, or give it back to him.

I would allow him to take any whitetail alive with that rifle, or equal size animal, out to 250yrds. But anything bigger and hes going to have to get bigger, to shoot a .270 or bigger. And then I'll have the .243 to myself......... ..................J

Hook, I saw the fine pictures of you're boy's work in Africa using his .243. Good thing he didn't know this rifle was fit only for rabbits.

I think your son and you just pretty well proved my point. Put the .243 in the hands of a good shot and with good bullets and it's a potent combination. Silly to think otherwise.

Pecos I have video of him "STONEING" a blesbuck "his very first biggame animal" with that .243, maybe I'll send it to Saeed and have him stream it for everyone who thinks the .243 is an inadequate light-big-game caliber. I mean Heart-Lung slammed it right down like "THAT"!

It was a "book" Blesbuck as well, 16&1/2". Prior to the hunt he had only shot 22's and cause of an injury I was only able to get him out 4 times to practice with it. But, well, you know, "squeeze until that rifle surprises you by going off" ? Well Ive lived by that advice ever since I was 7yo and started shooting.

The .243Win is one damn fine round. And anyone that thinks it isnt capable of takeing deer size game and less cleanly should probably wake up from their dream.........good shooting..................J

jhook i am finally glad someone has seen the light!

Jhook,
I think you just about summed it up. Anyone who thinks it isn't adequate is just plain confused.

I've been trying to convince people for years that the .243 Win. was named incorrectly from the beginning. They should have called it the .243 Cowa. What's that you ask? Stands for .243 Can o' whoop a$$

I am just looking at reloading data and it looks fine to me out to some serious yardage for deer size game. I usually bowhunt and my average shot on elk deer and bear is less than 20 yards so 100 yard is serious yardage to me. Myself I would not use it on elk because of the blood trail issue and I dont know if I was rifle hunting and came across the big boy if I could pass up the 250 yard shot.

I live by one rule if I cant hit the chest it walks. You can say what if he turns what if this and that but the point is you made the shot take responsibility for it. Everyone knows Murphy likes to hunt with us so learn to track the animal. It will make your hunting so much better. I firmly believe not learning to track game leads to more lost game than bad shots and under gunned hunters . Last year I tracked down 2 elk some one hit. Both times hunters said marginal hit animal will live. One found 400 yards second 650 plus. I had to spend time finding the fools to get them to tag thier elk.

dobieman,
those are impressive numbers! the one thing other than bullet placement is bullet performance.in the early days some of the factory loads came up short, premature blow-ups and generally poor bullet performance giving the cartridge a bad reputation, when in fact it was the bullet at fault.
i use the 85gr.SIERRA hpbt for everything and it gets the job done extremely well.
what bullet are you using? just my 2cents worth
dennis

I think bullet blowup might have been due to using the varmint load for deer. The early 70's version of the 100 grain power point had a reputation for not opening up. Early versions of the 90 grain Speer bullet was the same way but now it's a fine bullet. Any cartridge used on deer will perform poorly if it's bullets don't work within certain parameters.