I asked a friend of mine if he wanted to shoot a deer with my 223 and he said yes. He has shot several deer in the past with an AR 223. One he did a head shot and took off half of the head. I said to go for the heart shot with Fed Premium 55 gr Barnes TSX.

I left my gun and ammo with him and the next afternoon he called me and said he had one down. When he hit it he said it jumped way up and ran for a little ways making a circle and dropped about 60 yards from where he shot it. The bullet entered and went through a rib and took out part of the heart and went through another rib as it exited the deer. No bullet to recover.

I would not use the 223 on a 200 yard shot, but this was very effective and even surprised me on the power and penetration. This was about an 80 yard shot.

During the 2008 hunt season, I used my 338 wm with 225 gr Hornady Heavy Mag cartridges. I hit a deer at about 90 yards and it went about 30 yards and dropped. The bullet busted a rib at entry and took out some of the lungs and busted another rib, with an exit hole I could put my fist through. I was amazed that this deer went any distance at all. However, with the 223 and 338, both deer were dead.

I am not making a case to promote a 223 for deer, but they work. When I was in my teens and twenties, no one I hunted with used anything bigger than a 30-30. The only people we knew (in those days) who used a 30-06 or bigger were people from out of town who came up from Detroit and other areas in Michigan. We thought they were nuts. Now a 338 seems a bit much, but I don't think too much about it these days.

I know some people think a 223 for deer is nuts. I guess it's all in what your experiences are and realizing the limitations. I will try to get pics.

I think it depends a lot on the size of game and distance of your shot. If your not gonna shoot over 50 yards, and can confidently place a bullet in the head/neck are, why carry something that is so loud and kicks so hard? But thats just me.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:

X2 roger

quote:

The bullet entered and went through a rib and took out part of the heart

When you take out the heart, caliber become irrelevant.

Not another one!

I missed the last one.

I will stick with my statement that if a 375 is big enuf to kill a good size brown bear. Then the 223 is big enuf for a deer.

Not that it couldnt kill it, I just wouldnt use it unless I had to.

I've been using the .223 with a 62gn TSX for awhile now. It works like a charm on whitetail. No stunt to it.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
I've been using the .223 with a 62gn TSX for awhile now. It works like a charm on whitetail. No stunt to it.

Terry

I just got some Corbon ammo with the 62 gr TSX. I hope they shoot as well as the 55 gr bullets.

Maybe everyone realizes the horse is dead.

Maybe this is what they really mean by Zombie guns...the 223 spawns threads that can't be killed and feast on living bandwidth.

Well, the best zombie gun is a nice 22LR semi-auto. 22LR will penetrate the skull, you can carry tons of ammunition, and the rifles are very light. My Sig 522 is perfect for this.

338zmag--Thanks for posting this. The hecklers that didn't want to read it could easily not read it. The title says it all. I too have had 30-06 shot deer that travelled a distance despite massive damage, it is a mystery to me. Only a couple out of many .22 cal shot travelled any distance and in both cases it wasn't very far. It is way overdue for the know it all troll to tell you it can't be done, despite dropping the deer it is poor judgement and a stunt yada yada yada.

Try your .223 at 200 yards in a breeze near dark on a really big buck. You will wish for something better.

Copied from another thread, and edited:

"[If you need a varmint / deer rifle] ..trying to make a varmint cartridge work on big game is going at it the wrong way around. It would be far better to choose a cartridge for the largest game he intended to hunt with it, the develop a load for it that would work on varmints."

"...the 6mms 22 centerfires are essentially varmint cartridges. With the right bullets and careful shooting, they can be made to perform fairly satisfactorily on big game up to perhaps 200 100 lbs live weight. But why choose a cartridge that is only 'fairly satisfactory' when other cartriges are readily available in rifles that are just as light and have no more kick than those for the 243 22 centerfires?"

KB

for a disciplined hunter, a 223 works but not under all conditions.

Saw a dandy deer this past week end taken by a hunter in upstate NY...dressed at 180, 10 points....was shot at 150 yds while chasing a doe and walking directly away from the shooter. He kept waiting for the buck to give him some profile but ended up taking a slightly quartering away shot before the buck entered the woods again. The shot entered the rear left quarter, went through the flesh of the lower thigh, through the short rib area, through the chest rear to front and came to rest in the front right shoulder blade. The shooter used a 7-08 shooting a 140 grain Fusion cartridge. Not sure you make that shot with a 223 as easily.

I do a ton of varmint hunting down in TX. While doing so I've come across several free ranging exotics - I shot both an Aoudad and an Axis buck with my .223 - Both died in short order.

The last couple of times I've gone down there I started taking my .243. I figure the 223 worked fine and a 243 ought to work better.

JDA-CO

The first pic is the .223, 55 gr TSX entrance and the second pic is the exit.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with deer hunting using a 223 and TSX bullets. The reasons I say that are all inferences steming from that one basic fact - the choice was made to use a bullet designed to penetrate and hold together.

IMO, that says a lot about the "hunter".

First that weeds out the cheapskates.

Perhaps it seperates into a different class those in denial of the restrictions and limitations of the 223 for use on deer.

Secondly the guy wants to pick a tool that gives the best chance of success, within the other choice of using the 223 in the first place.

Thirdly, it simply means the guy gives a chit, and is able to distinguish the design intent of different bullets. That may seem so obvious to some, but it is apparantly not obvious to many.

Also, IMO, it also indicates to me that this guy who made this deliberate choice to use a premium bullet is also most likely to be keen about bullet placment, and careful about the range, and practice. All this, IMO, puts this type of 223 deer hunter in a good situation for repeatable success and is not representative of the majority of 223 deer hunters.

Perhaps the same could be said about other bullet choices of the non-varmint design, but I just use the TSX as an example because it is clearly in its own class.

Using the 55gr TSX bullet in a 223 still in no way puts the 223 in the same class of say a 7mm-08, regardless of exits.

KB

Jonp--If the only shot is through a rear quarter you PASS on the shot. The deer won this time. Doesn't matter how big the gun you PASS. Whether the .223 is big enough for that shot is not in the equation, you don't take the shot.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Jonp--If the only shot is through a rear quarter you PASS on the shot.

That's mighty presumptuous of you to be telling someone what shot they should be taking or not.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Jonp--If the only shot is through a rear quarter you PASS on the shot.

That's mighty presumptuous of you to be telling someone what shot they should be taking or not.

KB

I see it's starting to heat up.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Jonp--If the only shot is through a rear quarter you PASS on the shot.

That's mighty presumptuous of you to be telling someone what shot they should be taking or not.

KB

Don't we tell people what they should or shouldn't do all the time? Like not using a 223 on deer? Nothing wrong with telling people what they should not do. I don't think you should shoot people.

Whaaaat - heat up? Cheeet, this ain't nothing hot.

I actually find it amuzing thinking about the arrogance it takes to be so experienced as to say something that blunt. But after all, coming from a guy who claims to defy physics, I suppose it's understandable.

No heat here. Have you ever heard of the author William Least Heat Moon? They don't call me Kabluewy Least Heat Moon for nothing.

KB

Kabluey--I'm sure you shoot em through the rear quarter, but those of us that shoot deer to eat them dont ruin a better part. Shooting them through rear quarter fits right in with your gut shooting them end to end. You have all your idiot shit tagline and you say someone is presumptuous?

Actually, this is one of the few issues on which I agree with you. As a matter of fact, I passed on such a shot last time I went deer hunting, although I did have a rifle adequate to make a clean kill. We can't say the same about that varmint cartridge you shoot, so I can understand why you should pass on such shots. Why pretend it has anything to do with ethics?

KB

Min. is 6mm for deer here in WA state. So, it's a non-issue for me.

I have been away for a few months but this thread is still popping up.

If your not sure you can kill a deer with a 223 than you don't try it.

If you know you can kill a deer with a boomarang, go for it!

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
Don't we tell people what they should or shouldn't do all the time? Like not using a 223 on deer? Nothing wrong with telling people what they should not do. I don't think you should shoot people.

I just thought it is amuzing - a guy who shoots varmint bullets at deer, and thinks that's quite ok, telling another guy that he shouldn't be taking a shot at a certain angle. Presumptious is a kind word. Ignorance is another word that is maybe more accurate. Although it's pretty close to the same thing, I suppose it could just be a choice of wording - when I say that's something I wouldn't or haven't done and don't advocate it - compared to just outright saying don't do that, as carpetman said. I think perhaps the choice of wording is a choice of attitude.

As an example of wording: Take the words "I don't think".... ect. I used to start sentences with those words, until I thought about it. Now I constantly try to avoid that phrase as a sentence beginning, because in reality it invalidates what is about to be said. Instead, now I try to start the sentence with I think such-and-such.

For example: I think it actually doesn't make a difference - instead of - I don't think it actually makes a difference. Now split the two sentences into two parts each, divided after the word think, like the two are now four sentences, and you get entirely different meanings.

Another way to look at it is to add the word "and" in each sentence, right after the word "think". Doing that makes each sentence hinge upon the word "it", so it's anticipatory. It raises the question of what "it" we are really talking about. Is the word "it" a substitute for the word "thinking" or the phrase "shooting deer in the ass", or "shooting deer with varmint bullets"?

So, I think it is incorrect and you shouldn't be doing that; starting a sentence with "I don't think", unless of course you are actually saying what you mean to say.

I'm just messing with carpetman because he can't see the error of his own ways, yet feels righteous about telling others what they should not do.

Also, if a guy has insomnia at 3 - 4 am, what better thing to do than mess with words, and carpetman.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
I don't think you should shoot people.

I'll go along with that but only because it's Thanksgiving

Kabluewy--When you agree with me on something I sure wish you would refrain from posting it. It is embarrassing as hell that folks might think I'm in the same boat with you. I have to uphold my reputation.

Yea, I know what you mean. After posting it I felt a little quezy, but I figured it was because I hadn't had my morning coffee yet. Until you mentioned it, I didn't think about sea-sicknesss from being in the same boat thingy. Oh well, our ways are bound to cross paths somehow, but we can strive to not let that happen publically.

Since it's Thanksgiving, may I tell you a funny story?

Several years ago, I got in a longstanding argument with a fellow in SE Alaska, who happened to be a Brown bear guide. The argument had to do with something within my duty and business as a civil servent. I was administering code, and trying get him in compliance. Anyway, he made it personal, and threatened me, and taunted me in privite and public. He was a real nasty fellow, and had significant personal problems. So, naturally I worried somewhat about what he might do, and I watched my back as best I could.

After this had gone on for more than two years, we had kinda reached a standoff. When we met in public, we would joke, laugh, converse, but it was really a sword fight metaphorically. I made it a point to not avoid him, because the appearance of that would give him satisfaction and perhaps an edge.

One day we both happened to drive into the post office parking lot at the same time, and the only two parking places were side by side. So, he started in as usual, saying things about rumors he heard, that I had been fired, that the law was after me, my mother hated me, all the guides in Southeast Alaska knew what my boat looked like, etc. If I got angry, he wins - that's the game. We were standing in the parking lot, behind our trucks, and to observers it looked like we were best of friends, just talking and laughing.

So, I said that I heard all those rumors (I really hadn't) and just figured that he was the one starting them, at least that's what I've been telling those who ask. Then I said BTW I've started a rumor about you, that I think you should know about, and I want credit for it. Because of this rumor, we can't be seen or meet this way in public again, because people may get the wrong idea about me. I said to him, I've been telling people that you are queer, so we can't be having these plesant meetings and laughing together in the future.

I said it with a straight face, just like I was telling the truth. That was the first time I got his goat, he went silent, straight faced, and I just walked away. That was actually the last time he taunted me.

So carpetman, you see, I have been in a real life toe-to toe fight of words a few times, with potential consequenses and high stakes, once with a guy who hunts down and kills the largest land carnivor on earth - for a living. A fight of words here on AR is recreation in comparison. And, as you may have noticed, I rarely mess with people in the arena of where they make their living because that raises the stakes, and it's no longer recreation.

You, however, are fair game.

KB

Yes Kabluey, we play games all time. We play horse. I'm the head and you do a great job of your part by just being your natural self.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
The argument had to do with something within my duty and business as a civil servent. I was administering code, and trying get him in compliance.

KB

Ole Kaboom ye olde flock shooter,

Your confession above speaks volumes.

Happy Thanksgiving !!!!

My 223 is becoming quite the deer slayer. I hunted my friend's property the other day and shot a nice doe. I gutted it and had it hanging at his place and planned to go back to get pics, since I left my camera home that day. I did a head shot (about 65 yds) and watched the deer just flop over with its hoofs going up in the air.

Today I went back to take pics and he just took it to the butcher. I still may get pics, since the butcher is a good friend of his and he should be there when the deer is cut up. I will try to get those pics posted Sunday night or sooner.

I am happy to see that we can have discussions (with some fun) about smaller calibers being effective hunting equipment. Of course, within its limitations. I am now a big fan of the 223. Thanks too to all of you who have used that caliber effectively and posting about it here.

What Farrier Matt said about loud noise really rings home with me. I have some serious ringing in my ears and don't want any more caliber than absolutely necessary. Extra recoil doesn't bother me, but the noise is an issue. The ammo is much cheaper too.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
The argument had to do with something within my duty and business as a civil servent. I was administering code, and trying get him in compliance.

KB

Ole Kaboom ye olde flock shooter,

Your confession above speaks volumes.

Happy Thanksgiving !!!!

Confession? WTF does that mean in the context of what I said?

I figured some backwoods krockmucker anarchist from Idaho would pick up on the civil servent thing. Please explain exactly what you mean by that comment. What does it mean to you to know that I used to work for the Govt., in the duty of serving the public? I can't read your mind, so speak clearly. What volumes is it speaking to you? I have no idea, really.

I'll tell you the volumes that your comment is speaking to me. It confirms my presupposition and from evidence in past arguments with you that you will, at every chance offered, use personal info (if you can get it) to taunt an opponant in an argument, just like that bear guide did.

I think it's a damn shame that a guy can't even tell an amusing story on this forum, and give even a glimpse of anything personal, without having some nasty bastard using it to taunt.

KB

Still at it I see.

Civil servent--I thought they were civil servants--I can see why you are no longer one.