Is there something that a .243 win with 70-100 gr. bullet will do that a .260 rem with 100-140gr. won't do better ? I really would like to hear you opinion on this topic.

I can't think of a thing. Would like to know if there is something.

I think a 260 was just a cartridge developed to sell and market more guns. If you wanted something more than a 243 in a short cartridge, you might as well jump to a 7-08. There is a significant difference there.

With roughly a 10% larger frontal area, I would think the 260 with even more expansion capability would create a larger wound channel as it progresses through an animal. The fact that a 243 will has the capability to throw a 40% lighter projectile than a 260 and the 260 has the ability to throw a 40% heavier bullet than a 243 tends to make me think that choosing one over the other, one might give consideration to the game being taken. You can thump the pages of ballistics charts all day but proving the differnce in true terminal performance in the field would be very hard.

The .260 is the cartridge the .243 wisht it were. Had Winchester be smart enough (ain't hindsight grand) to bring out a .243 cartridge with a 125-140gr bullet @ 2700fps the .260 would have never seen the light of day.


speed doesn't kill, speed impresses the non-shooters around the water cooler.

.243 vs .264
.019 ..
/2
.0095..

3 pieces of paper..

WHO CARES, pick one

.243 Winchester is a better varmint rifle with light bullets and extended sessions.

quote:

Originally posted by Ingvar J. Kristjansson:
Is there something that a .243 win with 70-100 gr. bullet will do that a .260 rem with 100-140gr. won't do better ?

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
.243 Winchester is a better varmint rifle with light bullets and extended sessions.

You asked and got the best reply right there!

Also, you might find the .260 to be a better elk cartridge.

Other than that, it's a toss up!

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
.243 Winchester is a better varmint rifle with light bullets and extended sessions.

For the first time in ??????years I actually agree with Buliwyf!!!!!!!!!!

The .243 with 55g pills is potent on all the varmint creatures out there. With a healthy dose of Varget the velocity I'm getting out of a 24" barrel is 4050 fps and it is a varmint killer. Does well on smaller mule deer but that is a thread for more arguments than needed here to answer your question. With a 70g pill I would think that you would have the versatility to meet a lot of needs. JMHHO

Yep, it will wear out a barrel quicker

I do think the 243 has an edge as a varminter, but if you are using custom barrels, bore life is not your friend in 243.

6BR, much better bore life, better accuracy, easy on powder, blast, recoil and effective on deer to at least 400 yds I know.

Elk, best use the 260, unless you put a 6mm TSX, Scirocco, or perhaps a Partition thru lungs. The 260 is a much round no doubt on the largest of game.

It's a lot easier to find ammo for the 243. And there is a much better selection.

Get the one in the middle...the .257 Roberts. The .260 is a bit of a flop, not enough difference to make a difference. With folks doing just fine with smaller calibers and better bullets, its just not a winning proposition to pursue the .260

243, 257, 260 hey they're all good excuses to go get another gun

Bulk bullets cost less for the 243, at least they did last time I stocked up. Otherwise I imagine they're about equal with 100 gr bullets. Seems to me a 260 matches the 257 with 120s, the 7mm08 with 140s, and the 6.5x55 with 160s.

I have not studied the capabilites of the 260 but it would appear that in the 308 family of cartridges you have a specific window with regard to bullet length. They are short cases with short necks.
I would suspect anything much over 120 grains begins to infringe on case capacity in this cartridge not unlike 100gr in a 243.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
...
I would suspect anything much over 120 grains begins to infringe on case capacity in this cartridge not unlike 100gr in a 243.

Yeah, but with 120's the 260 can just exceed 2900 fps, with BC and SD numbers similar to a 130gr 270win, the 243 can't get near that performance.

Yes I would say that the 243 can do something better than the 260..........make kids learn to track wounded game rather than go to the downed game without all the fuss of a tracking job!! The 260 is a much more forgiving round in the hands of an inexperienced shooter!! Someone mentioned the 7-08.......I agree that it is superior to the 243 also on deer sized game. The difference in the 7-08 and the 260Remington is negligable using 140 grain class bullets. Both are SUPERIOR long range performers to the 243. The 6.5 diameter bullets in the heavy weights are SUPERIOR to the 100 grain pills from a 243 for stability at long range not to mention delivering more energy on arrival! I'm sure someone here will post some ballistic chart trying to prove the 243 over the 260 but it will not sway my opinion or the opinions of a lot of others who have experience with both chamberings. Give me the 260 or the 7-08 and keep the 243 for the varmint fields where it is a bonafide chambering............albeit inferior to the 6MM REM!! GHD

Actually, the .243 kinda sucks as a varmint rifle also. from coyote on down, the 22-250 does a better job.

For those that INSIST that a 100gr bullet is "necissary" for deer out of a 243 a look in a Nosler loading manual to see what the 260Rem does with the 100grain partition bullet specifically designed for the 260rem...

The 260rem is a "short action" 25-06 a lot more than it's a .244 + 0.020"

with a 125gr partition is adequate for any deer out there.

I'm not sure anything will ever make it an elk cartridge.


AD

With good loads like 125 partition or 120/130 TSX, I think it is very close to a 270/130 that has killed many elk. It just does not have the track record.

130 Accubond 2800-2900 w/.488 BC and good SD, is a good load in my book. Look at the downrange.

I do not own a 260 so I am certainly not experienced with this round. I am 52 years old and have shot Texas sized deer with a 243 since I was 10 years old. I use a 95 gr partition and IMR 4831 to get about 3100 FPS. I only take good shots but have never had a deer run over 40 yards. 80% drop right there. Our deer will field dress about 160 lbs max. probably 100% pass throughs on broad side shots behind the shoulder.
A 243 with a good bullet and put in the right spot will kill any whitetail.
I do not expect a 260 will be the equivilent to my 270 win loading. 130 gr partition, win brass, fed 215, 62 gr RL 22. Oeheler 35 chrono @3226 FPS. I shoot this in many of my 270's. It is a rip snorter! Great long range whitetail load.
BTW, I have killed dozens of pigs up to 200+ lbs with that little 243. Shoots through them like a hot knife through butter.
A 260 will certainly lay a larger smack on a target than a 243, I just have never seen the need for my purposes.
I do like the 7-08. I do not have problem getting 2900 fps from a 140 gr bullet and Hornady's light mag loads actually do hit 3000 FPS through my chrono. although not very accuartely.

Food for thought:
http://demigodllc.com/articles...7-6.5-creedmoor/?p=4

But then , I am a 6.5 addict.

Ingvar,

I have shot alot of ferral dogs with a variety of calibers and bullets when I had a cattle feed lot in NE Oregon.

They came into the corrals at night and tore up the cattle.

City Police, Tribal police and I did the shooting.

A .223 takes 3-4 hits to kill.

A 243 takes 2-3 shots.

115-120 grain 257 or partitions took one shot.

270 was very effective.

308 winchester was boring but effective but they ran farther than 25-06 or 270.

The 257 and 264 caliber are minimum for decisive effect.

There is a difference between 243 and 264 caliber, but probably less so if you are using premium bullets in each.

Andy

Owning both and loving both...all I can say, is the 260 is a 243 that can shoot 120 to 160 grain bullets...

what's not to love?

personally I can't live without either...

Not to knock the 22-250, but Nosler has a higher BC on their 6mm 55 BT vs. their 22 cal 55 B tip.

A 6 BR will run them 3700-3800, a 243 closer to 4,000.

What can a 22-250 do better given the above scenario on varmints? It does around 3800 IIRC w/55s.

Load on reloaders nest shows:

4067 fps
Group 0.4 (inches by 3 shot at 100 yds)

with a Sako 75, 23.5", in 243. I'd say any varmint wanting to challenge that is in trouble

243s don't often get loaded with very light for cal bullets, but they can do a bang up job. My first 6 BR shot 60 Sierra HPs unreal. .5" at 200 yds for 5 when sighting in the scope! In a Sako AII sporter they shot around that at 100. I use 70 TNTs for better wind drift and more energy, and an 87 vmax can reach pretty far out, as some yote hunters limit to 400 to no more than 500 yds out, and then go to 6mm/87 or similar for more energy and better wind drift.

I don't shoot those ranges, but it is there for those who do, or might.

Light bullets in 243s are perhaps under the radar as varminters.

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
Not to knock the 22-250, but Nosler has a higher BC on their 6mm 55 BT vs. their 22 cal 55 B tip.

A 6 BR will run them 3700-3800, a 243 closer to 4,000.

What can a 22-250 do better given the above scenario on varmints? It does around 3800 IIRC w/55s.

Load on reloaders nest shows:

4067 fps
Group 0.4 (inches by 3 shot at 100 yds)

with a Sako 75, 23.5", in 243. I'd say any varmint wanting to challenge that is in trouble

243s don't often get loaded with very light for cal bullets, but they can do a bang up job. My first 6 BR shot 60 Sierra HPs unreal. .5" at 200 yds for 5 when sighting in the scope! In a Sako AII sporter they shot around that at 100. I use 70 TNTs for better wind drift and more energy, and an 87 vmax can reach pretty far out, as some yote hunters limit to 400 to no more than 500 yds out, and then go to 6mm/87 or similar for more energy and better wind drift.

I don't shoot those ranges, but it is there for those who do, or might.

Light bullets in 243s are perhaps under the radar as varminters.

Amen brother.

Those 55 grainers out of the 243 at 4000+ are also lightening on smaller deer.

quote:

Those 55 grainers out of the 243 at 4000+ are also lightening on smaller deer.

You might be surprised at what they will do at 150 yds and under with an MV of just 2500 to 2800 fps....at least on a blacktail or antelope sized whitetail...

quote:

Originally posted by Ingvar J. Kristjansson:
Is there something that a .243 win with 70-100 gr. bullet will do that a .260 rem with 100-140gr. won't do better ? I really would like to hear you opinion on this topic.

NO! The 260 is superior in all respects.....

Andy, feral dogs taking 2-3 shots with a .243, are you kidding? 3-4 shots with a .223? Were they wearing kevlar? I like a 70-75 grainer out of my .243 for yotes and such and damn seldom do they do anything but tumble when hit. a .223 with a 50 grain Vmax or SX has mostly the same outcome. The only time when it has taken that many shots is when i have missed the first 2-3, and yes I admit I have missed a running coyote. I don't find need for a .260, but I already have a .243 and a few 7mm's. I will admit if I could only have two guns, and most likely will only hunt white tails and hopefully a couple of elk, a .260 might be one of them.

Moorepower,

This was in late 1970's and early 1980's. Guess I personally shot 60-70 head of dogs, not coyotes. Big coyote here is 30 pounds. Dogs were 70 pound range and up. Hunting and guard dogs mostly and not pure bred. At the tail end of this started to get some pit bull influence. Smaller dogs were dingo and australian shepard crosses, and the dingos could soak up alot of lead despite small size. These dogs were in hot blood and did not know they were dead until they ran out of oxygen. One shot even from a 223 would have eventually killed them but we tried to keep them where they were so we could ID them and shot until they were dead. Not a pretty picture I will tell you. The calibers that produced quick kills had about 18 inches penetration (they exited). This began with the 100 grain partitions and 117 grain conventional bullets.

Hope this helps some.

Andy

Andy, might I ask how different bullet types/styles/weights in the same caliber performed? (Aside from the general interest, there is also the aspect of like bullet types and weights in the two calibers that would be relevent to the original question).

This should leave no doubt! (From Hodgdon's website).

55 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H380 .243" 2.650" 46.0 3704 40,600 CUP 51.0 4010 48,700 CUP
No 260 equivalent.

80 GR. SIE BTSP _____ Hodgdon H414 .243" 2.635" 42.0 3249 46,300 CUP 45.0 3404 50,100 CUP
95 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Benchmark .264" 2.780" 40.0 3190 51,400 PSI 43.5 3391 59,600 PSI

107 GR. SIE BTHP Hodgdon H4350 .243" 2.850" 35.0 2671 43,100 CUP 37.5 2800 50,200 CUP
107 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon H4350 .264" 2.780" 46.0 2997 50,400 PSI 49.0 3164 58,700 PSI

No 243 equivalent.
125 GR. NOS PART Hodgdon H4350 .264" 2.780" 41.0 2714 50,900 PSI 44.3 2867 57,900 PSI

No 243 equivalent.
160 GR. HDY RN Hodgdon H1000 .264" 2.860" 48.0 2498 50,500 PSI 50.0C 2595 56,400 PSI

According to this, the 260 can drive a 125gr Nos. Part. faster than a 243 can drive a 107gr Sier. BTHP.

But, comparing the 55gr .243 to the 22-250 55gr ... well they are about equal - up to about 50yds when the 22-250 overtakes the 243. Still, there is no 4000fps bullet for the 260.

I'm not suggesting the 243 is somehow lacking but rather, attempting to answer the original question.

YES

It can drive an 85-100gr bullet as flat but give a better balance of expansion. There is also a much greater selection of 6mm bullets in that weight range so you are not so dependant on 2 nosler and 1 hornady offering in 100gr.

It is a better calibre for roe. I moved from a 6.5x55 shooting 100gr ballistic tips which was very accurate at 3,000fps however holes in a roe could be quite large. In that rifle 100gr hornadies didn't shoot.

However I think the 243 really shines on roe with 85-90gr bullets when it is slightly flatter than a 6.5 and still doesn't produce disproportionate damage. The little 70gr hornady soft point holds together very well indeed and even at 3,500fps out of a 6mm remington is extremely effective on roe - a true laser and again without stupid damage.

It also allows a smaller baffle size if you moderate it which should be quieter as a result.

The quality of available brass in 260Rem.
On paper it's a great round. Too bad Winchester or Lapua don't make brass for it. Lapua does make 6.5X47 and 243Win.

Too bad Winchester didn't stamp their name on the 260 instead of Rem.

303 guy,

This was not science, just using what we all had, and starting with calibers that had less penetration so as not to endanger cattle with a shoot through. Once we got some experience we were less concerned about that.

Going from memory.

223 used 55 grain FMJ and 55 graiin remington power lokt HP, similar to todays Federal Fusion (electrolytically plated jacket). Also handloads with 55 grain sierra HP and 63 grain semi spitzer, and much later the 60 grain nosler solid base. 18 inch barrel AR-18.

243, 85 grain remington power lokt, 100 grain sierra sp, and nosler partition.

25-06, 90 grain hp, 100 and 115 nosler partition, 117 remington, 117 Federal w sierra with cannelure (lost frontal area), 1117 sierra handload (decisive and better than w cannelure), 120 speer.

270, 130 winchester power point and nosler mostly.

308, 150 fmj, 150 WW power point, 130 speer hp, 150 nosler solid base (later).

.338 and 375 a few times, just curious.

12 ga, 00, 000, and #4. (Heavier better).

pistols, 357, 125 gr hp, 45 acp 120 arcane, 185 sierra, 145 glaser, 200 speer.

Police used also used 243, 12 ga, 223, 308, and we all used some pistols.

Dogs were very wound up and intent on killing cattle.

I standardized on a heavy barrel 25-06 with spot light attached to scope tube that turned on with a mercury switch, and any of the heavier bullets. I could shoot more dogs w the 25-06 than smaller calibers since I just had to shoot them once and they stayed put.

Andy

Something about the comparison of the 22-250 to the 243 looked weird and I checked. On the Hodgen reload data site the max load shown for a 55 grain 22-250 is less than 3800 fps compared to 4058 for the 243. So I guess the 243 is a little better, not equal or worse. Also if the 75-87 grain Vmax were used instead of the bullets used in your dog shoot, I think the results would have been drastically different. With the 223 using fmj and bullets designed for 22-250 velocity I can see why it did not perform as well as it can with todays varmint bullets that explode the lungs and heart, such as a 50-55 grain Vmax or ballistic tip in the 223. We had packs of dogs when I was growing up on the farm and I killed more of them with a shot from my 10/22 than anything else. My dad used his 760 Remmy in 300 savage because that is what he had. I still say if they were not dropping is was more the case of the bullet making a pin hole and not expanding or not shooting in the vitals.

without really going and looking up all the bullet weights for both, i'm thinking it's pretty much "apples and oranges"..... the 243 w/heavies more or less stops where the .260 with lights starts........
that doesn't say one won't do what the other can, but you're talking two different arenas of horsepower here.

OH, and jeffeosso... .264 minus .243 equals .021......

The .243 is a great varmint rifle with 55 grain bullets, is identical to the .220 Swift. With 95-100 grain bullets, there is probably not any practical difference on deer, as the .243 knocks them down. Going to the 7-08 7x57 makes a noticeable difference on larger game. Nothing wrong with the .260, but there isn't enough advantage to take over from the popular .243.

I shoot a Tikka .243. If I could have gotten the rifle in .260 or 6.5 Swede I would have. Much more versatile cartridge for big game.

The .260 Rem is a more accurate round out of most guns. Long range shooters are going to the .260 Rem AI over the 6.5/.284. I fined it harder to build an accurate .243 Win than a .260 Rem. The .243 to me is "Tweener" to big for some and not big enough for others. The .260 Rem will do everything a .243 will do and more......JMHO.....Tom