I converted my 591 Remington to centerfire W/the Schroeder bolt replacement & Schroeder's cases formed from 22 Hornet brass..

I load 33 gr V Maxes ahead of 6.8 GR 2400 for a MV of 2450 FPS.

The gun always did shot into 1/2" W/5 shots @ 100 yds W/the factory rimfire ammo. It does the same W/the V Maxes if I load the bullet out just shy of the lands.

Loading out to the lands requires the gun to be loaded as a single shot but that's fine W/me.

Sighted in 2 1/2" high @ 100 yds puts it dead on @ 185 yds. It still hold 1 1/4" groups @ 200 yds.

and aguilla is making new ammo, RF

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
The gun always did shot into 1/2" W/5 shots @ 100 yds W/the factory rimfire ammo.

Well, you should have probably left it alone, I suspect. It was one in a million, or perhaps one in several million, I'd guess.

I was Match Director of the rimfire bench matches around here for several years, and I never, ever, saw a .22 rimfire of any make or model shooting any brand of match ammo, that could be relied upon to do that at 100 yards. Fifty yards?, yes. Seventy-five yards?, sometimes. But regularly at 100 yards? Not once that I have seen!

Anyway, some of the locals have converted those little Remington RFs to .221 Fireball by re-working and rebarreling them. They performed okay. Don't know why none of the local owners seemed to have stuck with the .20 bore when making conversions.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
The gun always did shot into 1/2" W/5 shots @ 100 yds W/the factory rimfire ammo.

Well, you should have probably left it alone, I suspect. It was one in a million, or perhaps one in several million, I'd guess.

I was Match Director of the rimfire bench matches around here for several years, and I never, ever, saw a .22 rimfire of any make or model shooting any brand of match ammo, that could be relied upon to do that at 100 yards. Fifty yards?, yes. Seventy-five yards?, sometimes. But regularly at 100 yards? Not once that I have seen!

Anyway, some of the locals have converted those little Remington RFs to .221 Fireball by re-working and rebarreling them. They performed okay. Don't know why none of the local owners seemed to have stuck with the .20 bore when making conversions.

Well to start with it wasn't a .22 rimfire, it was a 5mm (.204) RF Magnum. My bad for calling it a 581, it's a 591.

Perhaps 1/2" might have been stretching it a bit as a RF, but it would shoot under 3/4" regularly & it will shoot the .204 V Maxs into 1/2".

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
and aguilla is making new ammo, RF

I just checked that out.

50 rounds for $17.99, that's $.36 a round.

@ 6.8 GR per load In get 1000 loads from a pound of 2400. 32gr V Maxes are $149.96 per 1000 @ Midway & small rifle primers are $27.99 per 1000.

$17.49 for powder
$149.96 for bullets
$27.99 for primers
$194.94 for 1000 rds = $9.75 for 50 rounds, less than $.20 per round & better performance.

I think I'll stay w/the centerfire conversion. The only PITA is loading it single shot but WTH, it ain't no assault weapon.

I found this interesting web page.

Read on down the page & you will find that this 5mm CF conversion shooter ended up W/very similar load to mine.

Schroeder brass, 33 gr V Max bullets @ 2490 FPS.

His accuracy was also similar to my results.

Only difference was the use of 6.1 grs of Lil' gun instead of the 2400 I used.

http://www.jesseshunting.com/a...s/category16/53.html

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
and aguilla is making new ammo, RF

I just checked that out.

50 rounds for $17.99, that's $.36 a round.

@ 6.8 GR per load In get 1000 loads from a pound of 2400. 32gr V Maxes are $149.96 per 1000 @ Midway & small rifle primers are $27.99 per 1000.

$17.49 for powder
$149.96 for bullets
$27.99 for primers
$194.94 for 1000 rds = $9.75 for 50 rounds, less than $.20 per round & better performance.

I think I'll stay w/the centerfire conversion. The only PITA is loading it single shot but WTH, it ain't no assault weapon.

What did the conversion cost? $1.00 per round?

quote:

Originally posted by Snapper:

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
and aguilla is making new ammo, RF

I just checked that out.

50 rounds for $17.99, that's $.36 a round.

@ 6.8 GR per load In get 1000 loads from a pound of 2400. 32gr V Maxes are $149.96 per 1000 @ Midway & small rifle primers are $27.99 per 1000.

$17.49 for powder
$149.96 for bullets
$27.99 for primers
$194.94 for 1000 rds = $9.75 for 50 rounds, less than $.20 per round & better performance.

I think I'll stay w/the centerfire conversion. The only PITA is loading it single shot but WTH, it ain't no assault weapon.

What did the conversion cost? $1.00 per round?

The conversion, including dies cost around $180 so after the 1st 1000 rounds, it has paid for itself. The cases are about $86 per 100 & easily last for 10 loads or more. So that add about $.09 a round.

All that is neccesary to do this conversion is the bolt head & extractor from Schroeder. Drive the pin out that holds the original bolt head to the rear bolt body & replace the bolt head. Check headspace W/the headspace gauges Schroeder loans out & fit the extractor. It takes about an hour.

But all of this is a moot point since I already have the conversion & 200 cases. When I did this, there was no ammunition available. Besides, as stated, the performance is much better, especially @ longer ranges. The CF version is a bonified 200yd + small varmint round, keeping 5 shots in an 1 1/4" group & shooting just a bit low when sighted in 2 1/2" high @ 100yds. (it's dead on @ 185yds)

That's a 33 gr V Max on the left, a 30 gr Berger on the right.

I dug out an old target.

Here is a typical 100yd group.



Now, a 200 yd group. The sticky dot was gone, but I think the POA was the 1" grid line just above the top hole. About 1 1/2" low to the center of the group.



If I could do something W/the horrible trigger, I might be able to do a little bit better.

And I repeat, if those targets were actually fired at 100 & 200 yards with rimfire ammunition from a Remington sporter, I don't believe you should ever have converted that rifle to anything.

None of the highest dollar match guns competing in the hands of some national shooting champions, using the most expensive Federal, Eley, RWS, and other highest quality ammo would regularly do that at those distances in ANY of the matches run here locally once a month for several years. It must have been a "one for the ages" rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
And I repeat, if those targets were actually fired at 100 & 200 yards with rimfire ammunition from a Remington sporter, I don't believe you should ever have converted that rifle to anything.

None of the highest dollar match guns competing in the hands of some national shooting champions, using the most expensive Federal, Eley, RWS, and other highest quality ammo would regularly do that at those distances in ANY of the matches run here locally once a month for several years. It must have been a "one for the ages" rifle.

Are you actually reading the posts?

Those groups were fired W/5mm CENTERFIRE ammunition loaded W/Hornady .204 33gr V Max bullets over 6.8gr of 2400 powder.

The previous post even shows photographs of of the amminition & the link I posted before that shows similar results.

Here's the link again. http://www.jesseshunting.com/a...s/category16/53.html

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

The gun always did shot into 1/2" W/5 shots @ 100 yds W/the factory rimfire ammo.
.

This is the part of your original post I was referring to....

I didn't hoist the B.S. flag because anything is possible and I haven't seen everything. But for ANY rimfire to "always" shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards IS extremely extraordinary.

Then you posted your targets. If I mistakenly thought you were posting proof of your original claim, I apologize for my mistake. But I stand by my statement that if you owned a Remington .22 rimfire sporter which would "always" put any rimfire ammo into 1/2" groups at 100 yards, you had a truly remarkable gun.

I purchased one of the original 592's (the tube fed model) when they first came out way back when.
Mine must have been one of the regular million in the one in a million deal, sure never averaged an inch but back then our standards were lower and the internet hadn't yet appeared with everyone on rim-fire-central agg'ing 1/2 to 1/4 inch groups with everything they touch Yeah...RIGHT .
It shot ok but when the .17 HMR came out I bought a CZ and installed Brookies trigger kit on it, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. It shoots circles around that old 5MM Mag. With a 6X20 Weaver Grand Slam on a good day the first year I had it I shot 9 consecutive 5 shot groups that agg'd a .72 and I was stopping strangers in the street to tell em about it . Amazing!!! (At least to me but I'm easily entertained).

That aside,I do converse on a site where a number of fellas have done the center-fire conversion on the 591's and all have been quite pleased it seems.
As to my 592 I got a recall from Remington about the extractor as memory serves about the time the ammo dried up . I took the rifle, the recall letter and proceeded to get my clock cleaned at the sporting goods store swapping for a High Standard Military Citation .22LR Pistol that I sure wish I'd kept .
So much for that little trip down memory lane. good luck with your Schroeder conversion, bet ya love it.

Double post

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

The gun always did shot into 1/2" W/5 shots @ 100 yds W/the factory rimfire ammo.
.

This is the part of your original post I was referring to....

I didn't hoist the B.S. flag because anything is possible and I haven't seen everything. But for ANY rimfire to "always" shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards IS extremely extraordinary.

Then you posted your targets. If I mistakenly thought you were posting proof of your original claim, I apologize for my mistake. But I stand by my statement that if you owned a Remington .22 rimfire sporter which would "always" put any rimfire ammo into 1/2" groups at 100 yards, you had a truly remarkable gun.

In my 1st post my use of grammer was not very good in that I used the word "always" perhaps incorrectly. I was using the word "always" to mean it did shoot 1/2" groups even when a RF. I did not mean that it never shot groups larger than 1/2". I further tried to clarify that statment in my following post as being perhaps a bit exagerated.

Back in those days I did not spend a lot of time shooting from a rest @ paper & measuring groups. I did not hand load any centerfire rifle ammo, so most of the time, when I shot paper, it was to sight in a rifle.

I will say this. That 5mm RF was the most accurate rifle I owned @ the time. It would shoot 1/2" groups regularly & seldom would they exceed 3/4" when I did my part. I once used 12 ga hulls shoved into shotgun slug holes in a post as targets @ 100yds. I was able to keep all of my hits solidly in the head of those hulls.

As far as the accuracy of the CF conversion? I use the first loading to plink & fireform the brass. Then, I only partially resise the cases. The 33gr V Max bullets are loaded longer than what will feed through the magazine & are loaded single shot. The bullets are seated so that the ogive is just off the lands. It will, when I do my part, shoot 1/2" groups regularly, seldom having any fliers that I can not attribute to sloppy marksmanship.

The only rifle I have that will shoot smaller groups than the 5mm CF is an out of the box 7mm-08 M700 that loves Federal Premium 140gr Ballistic Tip ammo & carefully selected hand loads.

Granted, W/the horrible trigger & light weight, that 5mm CF takes a lot of discipline to shoot tight groups.

I can see where my posting an "old target" could have been misunderstood. What I meant was that the target was "old" in that I have not shot the gun on paper for a few years. Sorry for the ambiguous terms.

WJ-

Thanks for the explanation and civility. I can certainly buy everything you said in your last post. The 5 m/m rimfires were often very good shooters. Too bad the ammo was so darned expensive. Kind of reminds me of the .17 Hornady rimfire. It is remarkably more accurate than the .22 LR (as proven in local matches), but geez, Louise, $9+ per box for even the cheaper stuff?

As to the centerfire you've worked up...yes, I'd expect it to do well, as it appears to do. Some of those small cartridges can be truly remarkable. I also think the idea of using a Hornet case was a good one...a little more margin of safety than my local friends who have converted the same model Remington to centerfire using a .221 case. None of them has had any problems which resulted in damage to rifle or shooter, yet. But I still fear they may be skating on non-too-thick ice.

Best wishes,

AC