22 Mag. When I lived in Colorado I went deer hunting every year with friends who lived in the west slope town of Rifle. Millwrights, pipefitters etc. When times were bad they fed their broods with trainloads of mule deer poached with 22 mags. They all swore by it's effectiveness, softpoint in the ear and they dropped as if struck by lightning and never twitched.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:
Sure, a well placed 22 magnum, or even 22 LR can kill a deer but if it does not kill it within the first minute I bet you will have a suffering and most likely unrecovered animal on your hands and conscience.

Mark,
I have to agree 100% with you, so your statement throws away all my "poaching" intentions using smaller calibers..

My only hunting rifle is a 9,3x62 mauser that I have been using for everything, from foxes up to water buffalos.

It seems that there is no way to avoid the big BANG

Today my brother in law asked me to kill two feral cebú bulls that have been giving him some trouble with his cows in another property he has. So next saturday I will take my mauser to see what happends.

L

Subsonic loads will avoid a big bang.

I wouls use a long barrel 44mag or 45 long colt with a 300 gr or so bullet at right around 1000 fps. Use as little powder as possible to get to that vel. With a long barrel 22 inch or long one will not be able to hear it much over 100 yards.

Way less nosy then a 22 lr.

44 Magnum with 240 gr XTP projectile , loaded down to about 1000 fps. Works on fallow deer here , dont see why it wont work for your situation.

Personally I would just ask if I could buy one of his deer and then clobber it with a "normal" rifle shot - or else set your sister onto him . He will give in before long just to keep the peace.....

O.K. As I recall the Axis is not that big a deer. Under 100 lbs usually.

As said, the .22 Rimfires are often used in USa for poaching. Knew one old man who talked of family getting meat during the depression by baiting deer into back yard and hitting head at close range with .22 Long Rifle. But this is a close range arrangement and some noise.

I was amazed the first time I fired a "standard velocity" .22 Long Rifle out of a target rifle. 22 inch barrel or so. Not as loud as my pellet gun. Or so it seemed. No need for hearing protection. Somewhat less power, but eough for head shots well placed.

The old hippie writings said a frozen juice can with window screen rolled up and a hole thru the middle for the bullet, would about silence a .22 Long Rifle out of a rifle. Pop bottle, 2 liter, more recent. Again, you got to get the bullet out of a small hole or the gas escape defeats the silencing.

For more certain kill, the larger [as said, "more mass"] slugs offer great destruction with less noise. WW II saw the .45 ACP 1911s locked so the action did not make noise and a muffler/silencer screwed onto the muzzle.

If you can handload, about any large caliber can be down loaded with fast powder. If handloading is discouraged, you can pull the bullet and dump out part of the powder charge... Sloppy but doable.
out the "blast" gases. The old t.v.

For daytime poaching, I'd probably use a crossbow. For night-time poaching, probably a LARGE "figure-4" deadfall built on a deer-trail, if the ground was accessible and appropriate for that. Little or no noise with either one.

Having said that, it is very easy to build a real, workable, silencer for a .22 LR. Requires a tube which is mountable to the barrel, preferably gas-tight without using threads, with a cap on the end farthest from the barrel. Obviously, the cap needs a hole in it in line with the bore.

Inside, you need something to make the powder gases do some "work". By causing the gas to have to push against something moveable, it loses velocity, energy, and therefore, noise-making power.

There are several ways to make the gas work. One is to use stacked washers with coil springs as spacers between them. That is less than ideal, but the longer you make the tube, the more washers you can put in it, and the more energy the gas will lose.

Another item which can be used inside is spring steel washers, with a bend in the middle of each of them. Then the gas works by temporarily straightening out the washers (temporarily taking the bend out of them). If you use bent spring-steel washers, make sure the hole in each one is big enough that even while the washers are bent the bullet cannot hit ANY of the washers while passing through them.

Also make sure the washers are big enough diameter they will not sink to the bottom of the tube enough for a bullet to strike an edge of the hole(s).

When using the bent spring steel washers, put about a 1/8" to 3/16" thick spacer between each washer, so there is room for the gas to get in there to push on the washers.

Admittedly not perfect in function unless tweaked, but with the .22 LR one does not need much silencing. The whole thing is dependent on a couple of very simple principles. 1. Let the bullet follow its path without hitting anything. 2. Keep the gas from escaping as quickly as the bullet, and make the gas do some work and slow down before it escapes at all.

Then use subsonic ammo, and eat well.

BTW, if you carry a couple of big, junky tool-boxes in the back of your truck and throw the tube under a bunch of various wrenches, other short pieces of rusty pipe, and stuff, in one of them... and the washers in a beat-up old paper sack thrown behind the pickup seat among a couple of other sacks of miscellaneous washers, it'll take a pretty sharp LEO to find it even if he is checking for a silencer. A little rust (or a better yet a lot of surface rust) on both tube and washers will make the whole affair even less noticeable.

Not that I would ever entertain doing any of this, OR poaching...at least not now that the kids are raised and gone.

no one mentioned the most obvious choice. the 22 hipower. you don't have to be close enough to stick the muzzle in their ear like you would with any 22.

in europe this is still the roebuck cartridge of choice. and roebuck and your axis deer are about the same body size. it has adequate power for the job, shoots flat for longer than you'll need and is relatively quiet

Lorenzo,
when possible put the photos of a feral cebu, thank you

My goodness, a friend from the North West Territories just told me about this thread last night ... Hunting is my great passion .... I have hunted for over 50 years (sigh) on four continents ... go yearly to Africa and often to South America ... I am also a teacher so have met many many thousands of folks over the year .. I have also hunted with Lorenzo (and Gaucho and Poncho) in both Uruguay and in Namibia. I can state, totally without reservation, that in my life time I have never met a finer man. Never !!! So don't be throwing a hissy fit ... it's a damn joke !!! If you get a chance to hunt with him and his buddies - you've been blessed !!!

I raised pig and sheep.
The guys that slaughtered them for me used a 22 rifle, that usually took them down with a bullet to the brain. But sometimes the bullet glanced off, and it was real hard to get another shot, as the animal got weary.

The .22 mag never seemed to glance off a 250 pound pig's head.


I have also seen roosters that can take many shots of 22LR hollow point to the body and keep walking. A shot to the head or neck takes them down.

What does it all mean?
2 pound chickens and 250 pound hogs need to be hit in the head with the 22LR, and my guess is that 125 pound deer are no different.

Most deer poachers use a 22LR, but some use a 22 mag.

Hey Scruffy !!!
Don't spoil my divertiment (sp?) !!!!
I am trying to build a reputation around here !!!

L

quote:

Originally posted by hunt127588:
I can't believe this post is being entertained. Hope you get caught and if I was your bro-in-law, you'd never be invited back.

Oh yeah, down here in the Southern US, we prosecute people like that when we catch 'em.

The ones that live? Right?

Try the SSS (Sniper Sub Sonic) Aguila 22LR. 60g bullet, 750/850FPS depending on barrel length.
Sounds like a pellet gun out of a bolt gun.
Loudest sound out of My Ruger 10/22 Carbine is the sound of the action. Pop! CLACK-CLACK.

Dictionary definition of "Poaching".

poach·ing /ˈpoʊtʃɪŋ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[poh-ching] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the illegal practice of trespassing on another's property to hunt or steal game without the landowner's permission.
2. any encroachment on another's property, rights, ideas, or the like.
[Origin: 1605–15; poach1 + -ing1]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Your on your own on this one. I think too much of hunting to be complicit in this. Even after all these years I'm still occasionally surprised at the level our sport can sink too.
Silly as it might be I can't help but think if the "LAND OWNER" doesn't want them culled it's not the "INVITEES" position to out think him. Call me old fashion.
This isn't some moral highhorse either cause in my younger days I poached to eat and ate what I poached.
Mark is exactly right on this!

22 Hornet with 50 grn barns copper over 12.5 grns of LilGun.

Never poached anything with it but what has been shot leagaly at yardages out to 100 yds have been more than impressive.

From groundhogs and fox/cyotes to 100 lb. deer and hogs.....yes I said hogs all = DEAD.

Muzzle blast sounds like a .410 shotgun not a centerfire rifle.

well now i aee the poaching issue is dealt with a 300 whisper loaded subsonic is real good choice if you suppres from there it can make less noise then a pellit gun and basically give 308 win performance

25-20

I agree with past posts about not doing it. I hunt on my family's farm and we have people that we allow to hunt as well. We have had to ask people to leave, people that were friends, because they had to shoot two deer in a day, or in areas they weren't allowed, etc. It sucks having to do it to a friend and it hurts the landowners feelings about doing it, but it is obvious that the friend doesn't care about the landowner's feelings. Instead of "poaching" ask for permission to hunt the deer, if told no once more, don't do it. Like the one post said, grow up and stop just thinking about yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman:
Glad to hear that you and your brother in law are so close and uptight and you are working so hard to maintain that relationship. Wonder what you would want to know about if you didn't get along? Sure makes it easy to understand why landowners are reluctant to give permission to hunt. Hope he catches you and bans you forever.

Sounds like Lorenzo hit a “hot button†with you.
Landowner? Guilty conscious?

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
Dictionary definition of "Poaching".

poach·ing /ˈpoʊtʃɪŋ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[poh-ching] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the illegal practice of trespassing on another's property to hunt or steal game without the landowner's permission.
2. any encroachment on another's property, rights, ideas, or the like.
[Origin: 1605–15; poach1 + -ing1]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Your on your own on this one. I think too much of hunting to be complicit in this. Even after all these years I'm still occasionally surprised at the level our sport can sink too.
Silly as it might be I can't help but think if the "LAND OWNER" doesn't want them culled it's not the "INVITEES" position to out think him. Call me old fashion.
This isn't some moral highhorse either cause in my younger days I poached to eat and ate what I poached.
Mark is exactly right on this!

Maybe. Maybe not.

quote:

From the website: Hunting, Sport or Blood Sport?
Poaching.
Poaching is one of the saddest aspects of hunting. What poaching means is that even though an animal is protected and laws have been passed to make hunting and killing that animal illegal, the animal is still-hunted and killed.

Hmmmm? Does not apply.

quote:

From the website: Encyclopedia of the Earth
Poaching.
Definition:
Poaching is the illegal hunting, killing or capturing of animals. This can occur in a variety of ways. Poaching can refer to the failure to comply with regulations for legal harvest, resulting in the illegal taking of wildlife that would otherwise be allowable.

Examples include: Taking without a license or permit, use of a prohibited weapon or trap, taking outside of the designated time of day or year, and taking of a prohibited sex or life stage.

Hmmmm? Does not apply.
While the Dictionary says that poaching encompasses “any encroachment on another's property, rights, ideas, or the like†if your brother says, “I absolutely, positively, don’t want you shooting this non-protected, non-native species on my property†because he REALLY doesn’t want you to, then don’t.

If he says “I absolutely, positively, don’t want you shooting this non-protected, non-native species on my property†out of plausible deniability, then what he is saying in essence is “I don’t want to know about it.â€

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
We have an "I prefer not to know" agreement.
I have should said that he PREFERS not to shoot the deers, is a wish not an order, there are MANY deers there, specially some big bucks so is a nice oportunity to bag some old deers.

...Because of this is that I want to hunt a couple of them without doing to much "noise" near the houses mainly to avoid spreading the voice between the workers that hunting deers is ok there...and also to avoid putting my brother in an uncomfortable situation infront of his workers (because they know he preferes not to shoot the deers)

Sorry if my post offend some of you.

Let this topic die here, as someone said, we cannot give so much atention to a "poaching" thread...

L

Lorenzo, make sure and use something Q-U-I-E-T…

A 22 hornet is the most used poaching gun around where im from, U could all ways use a deer beagel to run them to a place where u can shoot them thats on not on brother inlaws

Set up a "shooting range" near the area you want to hunt. Use whatever caliber you want and if someone complains, show them a paper target with holes.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Set up a "shooting range" near the area you want to hunt. Use whatever caliber you want and if someone complains, show them a paper target with holes.

Without a doubt, the best idea yet.

For minimal sound you need subsonic ammo mostly 22LR or Pistol 45ACP with a suppressor , if your barrel is threaded like some of the CZ are get a small engine oil filter with hole drilled in the bottom these work very well and if done right and painted looks like it was meant for the rifle! or a plastic coke bottle can do and face away from where you do not want noise to go .

All of this is getting a bit "out of hand"! What next? "Best Calibre for Assassination"? Maybe we should stop before others that view this Forum get the wrong impression that some of us are NOT responsible sportsmen and sportswomen?

Just my UK 5p (about US 10c).

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
All of this is getting a bit "out of hand"! What next? "Best Calibre for Assassination"?
Maybe we should stop before others that view this Forum get the wrong impression that some of us are NOT responsible sportsmen and sportswomen?

Just my UK 5p (about US 10c).

"Out of hand?" Who are you, the forum police???
Good grief!! I believe that kind of attitude is what got you chaps in your gun ban pickle in the first place.
Too many people believing they knew what was best for everybody else.

Perhaps anybody who would come to that conclusion should read ALL of the posts in this thread before making an uninformed "judgement" against us.

Besides, thanks to Saeed, it cost nothing to offer up any opinion. If they would like to offer their opinion, they could and should sign up like we did.


But now that you mention it, that is a great topic for a thread:

"Best caliber for assassination."

Any takers?

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

"Best caliber for assasination."

Any takers?

These have been some choices in the past.
.41 lead ball (perhaps it was actually a .44)
.44 lead ball
.32
9 mm Kurz
.30-06
6.5 X 52 mm

Now, who used what?

I've posted my answers to the above as a "PM" to "DUCKEAR". So as not to spoil the "quiz" for others.

If anyone wants to "PM" me with my answer below they can do also.

I'll add one! .38 Colt Super Automatic! Although not actually the "weapon of death" in the event.

Any guesses? Sadly, or perhaps happily, I had one in the UK before the gun ban and sold it...a Colt .38 Super Super Match...before I realised what it was! And now I look on the internet to see how much Guns America sells them for! Mine cost me the equivalent of $340!

Actually it could be quite an interesting thread!

I'll add three:

Charter Arms .38 revolver

.22 caliber Iver Johnson Cadet revolver

-and-

sawed-off shotgun.

Still working on the .38 Super!

Another:

Snub-nosed Colt Cobra .38

During one and/or both world wars, the Brits used a silenced Lee Enfield chambered in 45 ACP. The bolt was shortened and the barrel extended back into the action. This was a 'special ops' weapon, which I would imagine, included assassination. The Lee Enfield would make a great 45-70 subsonic platform. (Or 444 Marlin subsonic).