I have a chance to pick up a minty old Ruger 77V in 220 Swift. It is the Mk 1 with the tang safety. I believe it has a 1-16 in twist barrel. I see many of the Remingtons and the Ruger MkIIs have a 1 in 14 inch twist. I suspect the newer 1-14 twist will handle the heavier 60- 70 gr bullets better.I suspect I would shoot the 50-55 gr most with some 60 gr .Would appreciate any input from some who have experience with some swifts and bullet weights in this range. Which bullets have given you the best groups with 1-16 & 1-14 twists. Thanks for any input.

Best thing to do is confirm the twist by actual measurement using a cleaning rod. My Swift, a rechambered Ruger #3 carbine (1:12"), shot the 50-53 grain bullets well. One of the most accurate bullets in the swift and .22-250 is the Sierra 55 grain High Velocity SMP #1350. Most accurate powder was W760, other powders are H-380 and AA2520. That Ruger is a fine rifle. I had one back when the 77 was first introduced, at a time when Ruger was using various barrel makers rather than manufacturing their own. That M-77 limited addition with iron sights in .257 Roberts, rechambered to the Ackley version and glass bedded, was a .5" shooter, I lucked out on the barrel. It took many a ground squirrel - vaporized them.

Snowman,
I have a rifle like yours. My rifle is very accurate with the old 52 grain Nosler solid base bullet and 4064 powder. It's so accurate with this combination that I have never tried anything else.

Regards, Keith

Thanks guys. Can anyone else comment on what the heaviest bullet was that shot well for them with the 1-16 inch twist??

Snowman,
There were two versions of that rifle. One model made about 1971 as a Special Edition, 2500 made. Later added to Ruger's regular line about 1973. Never heard of one with a 1:16 twist. I had two of them with 26 in barrels and both were 1x14 and shot the 60 gr Sierras pretty good. I used the 55 gr Sierra most and both shot really well with H380 or 4320. You really need to figure out the twist rate.

Aaron

Carolina Thanks for that input. I was aware that Ruger obtained barrels from several manufacturers at that time. The test rifle used in the Speer # 12 loading manual lists a Ruger 77 with 1-16 inch twist. A couple other manuals (mostly later manuals) I have also show Rugers with 1-14 in twist. I was curious if there were problems stabalizing heavier bullets with the 1-16 barrels and was hoping someone out there had some first hand experience with this.

Maybe I should have asked the question this way. Anyone who is putting a new barrel on a 22-250, 22-250 Imp or 220 Swift. What twist are you getting and why?? What bullets do you plan on shooting with the twist you are ordering??

quote:

Originally posted by snowman:
Maybe I should have asked the question this way. Anyone who is putting a new barrel on a 22-250, 22-250 Imp or 220 Swift. What twist are you getting and why?? What bullets do you plan on shooting with the twist you are ordering??

When the time comes for a new barrel I'm going to go with a 1:7.7 just like the ARs use. I think 69 & 77 grain Sierra bullets are just the ticket in windy country. If it works half as well as I think, I might sell off a 6m/m

All of my several Swifts have 14 inch twists--the industry standard for factory production rifles. I never saw the need to go with bullets heavier than 55 grains. The Sierra 53 grain Match is mainly what I've used. If you have a 16 inch twist you'll just have to experiment to see how it performs. I'd be surprised if it handled 60 grain bullets very well.

Snowman, some bench shooters will use a 1 in 15 twist to shoot the 52/53gr match bullets. This is typically considered the minimum twist necessary to stabalize the 52/53gr bullets out of something like a 22ppc. The swift shoots a little faster so a 1-16 would probably stabalize the 52/53's just fine, but I don't believe it would be enough to stabalize the 60gr bullets. If you wish to shoot the 60's make sure it has at least a 1/14 before you buy it.

I would use a 1x8 or 7.5 twist to shoot the heavier 75-80 gr bullets. The 220 Swift has plenty of case capicity to drive these bullets fast enough to extend the range some.

I am haviing a new varmit rifle built using a 1x8 twist and making the Swift case into a Weatherby Rocket. The plan is to shoot the 75 gr Hornady bullet.

Aaron

quote:

Originally posted by snowman:
Maybe I should have asked the question this way. Anyone who is putting a new barrel on a 22-250, 22-250 Imp or 220 Swift. What twist are you getting and why?? What bullets do you plan on shooting with the twist you are ordering??

I have a VERY early "flat-bolt" Ruger M-77V in .220 Swift. Have owned it for a lot of years. I use 63 grain bullets of my own manufacture in it for varmints, and it shoots very nicely.

I've never mesured the twist, as I've found that different barrels of supposedly the same twist don't always proove accurate with the same bullets, regardless who made the barrels or the bullets.

So I use the acid test. If I want to know how well it will shoot with a particular bullet, I just try some in it.

I know one can't always do that, so sometimes he just has to take a chance.

If you really like the rifle you're thinking of buying, just go ahead and buy it. If it prooves accurate with ANYTHING, it'll be great fun. Swifts are generally a hoot to shoot, especially with top-end loads. It's sort of fun to watch things explode just before you even knew the trigger had released.

If it is not accurate with anything you try, then you can decide whether to keep/use it anyway, sell it, or do somewthing to accurize it (maybe re-barrel?). All part of the fun of trying to satiate the insatiable gun crank.

Thanks to all who contributed. I think I'm going to pass on the old Ruger and get a rifle with a little quicker twist that will handle some of the longer bullets like the TSX's

Back in the day-1982- I actively hunted with a Ruger 77V in .220 Swift. Mainly used 50 gr. Hornady's and a heavy charge of 3031. Also used some homemade bullets. This rifle had a 1/14 twist. It was capable is excellent accuracy but never was able to reach top Swift velocity. Overall, this 77V was an excellent varmint rifle.

Back in “the day” Ruger only use a 1 in 14 twist for the Swift and the 22-250. Looking at my Sierra manual from 1978 the biggest bullet offered is a 63-grain and Nosler only offered a 60 until 1981. Hornady only offered a 60-grain bullet up to 1982. I don’t know about the rest of the bullet makers.

All my Ruger 22-250 and 220 Swifts, except my latest Swift had 1-14T barrels. I started way back with an early Tang V model, then a rechambered 22-250 Ruger Tang V, then a Ruger gray/laminated Target model rechambered after a season of shooting to 22-243.

Every one shot 45-60 gr SP and the 63 and 70 gr Semipointed with several powders...neither case is hard to find an accurate load for.

My latest is a 1-8T for the longer 68-77 gr VLD type bullets, but if you want to go up to 90 gr get a 1-7 or 1-6T barrel.

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
Back in “the day” Ruger only use a 1 in 14 twist for the Swift and the 22-250. Looking at my Sierra manual from 1978 the biggest bullet offered is a 63-grain and Nosler only offered a 60 until 1981. Hornady only offered a 60-grain bullet up to 1982. I don’t know about the rest of the bullet makers.

My point is,,, the twist of the Ruger 22s was designed around the bullets of the time. There were no custom, taylor made bullets back in “the day” (That the average person could afford).

Snowman: I don't know what your goal is with a 220 Swift, but let me tell you a little bit about the early Ruger I own, and what I do with it. Just for this conversation, I went out and measured the twist of my rifle, which is 14.

I bought this Ruger in 1974, and shot it for 21 years. The throat went, so I sent it to Ruger in 1995,and had it rebarreled. When it came back, it was even more accurate than the original, which shot around.5" This one with 38RL15/55 Nosler Ballistic Tip, shoots 3 shot bug hole groups, at around 3900fps.

I view the Swift as a 55 grain bullet shooter, and if the condtions dictate, wind, I break out the 6mm-06, or even a 270 Winchester Sendero.

Other than the AR15, which I shoot in the across the course match, I have never gone above 55 grain in any of the 22's, most shoot 52's and 53's. In heavy wind, I find the Swift with this bullet good out to 300yds, with a prairie dog and a half windage, what else you need?

Buy the rifle.


Jerry

There is a huge difference when shooting heavy bullets, and anyone who doesn't think so hasn't shot at long range in the wind with both light and heavy bullets.

A fast twist brings the Swift into a new world. The Hornady 75 AMax has half the drift that lighter bullets have. Lighter bullets are also substantially impacted by changes in temperature (a lower temp effectively lowers the BC - when you have low BCs to start with, a 10% change affect the trajectory a lot more than it does a .44 BC).

A temp diff of 30 degrees (59 to 29) results in a bullet strike 3.8 inches low at 700 yards when using the 75 AMax @ 3200fps. The 50 gr Sra spitzer at 4000 fps hits 9.9 inches low - almost three times the affect!

If you don't believe me, just crank out the numbers using a ballistics program. A 50 gr Sra sptizer with a BC of .207 fired at 4000 drifts 7.5 inches at 700 yards in a one mph wind. A 75 grain AMax at 3200 drifts only 3.84 inches. Why in the world would you shoot 50 grain bullets if you want to hit at long range??

I have a Rem 700 with a Shilen fast twist barrel. Shoots 75 gr AMax's. I shoot with it out to 600 and 700 yards all the time. You can't do that with a 50 gr bullet - at least if you want first round hits.

That's where you and I differ. Long range for me and the 22's I shoot is about 400yds, without wind. Like I said earlier, I break out other rifles to cover long ranges, and that for me is about 500yds on pdogs. I may shoot at a chuck with the 6-06 at 7-800yds, but that's it. I know you guys like to write about all this long range stuff, but you guys are all the experts, and the rest of us are well, lets just say fodder. In the real Arizona world,I haven't seen anything at those kind of ranges. To be quite honest, I doubt I could hit them out that far. But then I am not a gun writer.

Jerry

The very first rifle I ever built in Gunsmith school was a 220 Swift. FN action 1 1/4" 26" barrel,English walnut 'Marksman' style stock. Canjar trigger. Would shoot into 1/2" all day long with Remington factory ammo. There are many trees around my home that have dimes embedded in them. I would bet that I could hit a dime at 100yds and that swift bullet would drive the dime into the tree. I never lost a bet with it. Lots and I do mean lots of crows fell to that rifle that summer. I really was a swift admirer.Still am.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
That's where you and I differ. Long range for me and the 22's I shoot is about 400yds, without wind. Like I said earlier, I break out other rifles to cover long ranges, and that for me is about 500yds on pdogs. I may shoot at a chuck with the 6-06 at 7-800yds, but that's it. I know you guys like to write about all this long range stuff, but you guys are all the experts, and the rest of us are well, lets just say fodder. In the real Arizona world,I haven't seen anything at those kind of ranges. To be quite honest, I doubt I could hit them out that far. But then I am not a gun writer.

Jerry

Jerry,

Well, given 400 yards and no wind, I don't think we are disagreeing. Wind gets to be about impossible past 500 yards with a .223; the .220 with heavy bullets gives you maybe 150 more yards. But there isn't a caliber alive that is a slam dunk past 700 in the wind.

If you want, let's go out to the desert sometime. Some writers I know can shoot; some can't. No different than this site. Actually, there are a great many who never competed in any competition. Jim Carmichel is an exception, but he is an old fart now. The only big time writer I ever saw on the cover of Precision Shooter.

My very first Swift was a pre-'64 Model 70 Target, with a special order pair of factory fitted barrels. I sold it in 1981 preparatory to moving to the U.S. It was in great condition, was a very, very accurate rifle, and I have deeply regretted selling it (and my Super Grade M54 .22 Hornet at the same time) ever since.

I don't think I have ever owned a rifle I liked more than that pair.

We found the Swift perfectly adequate for the hunting we did. Due to the topography in this area of Tennessee the super long shots were limited. We did move on to using Bobs, 243's and finally with 240 Gebby Supervarminters AKA 6mm-270. We found the 75gr. bullets-in .243 and .257-gave excellent performance shooting flat with good expansion. Eighty-five grain bullets were accurate but better suited for other purposes. I could not get good expansion in the .243 Win. or the Gebby with this heavier bullet- @3700 fps in the 240. We used slow 1/12 twist in the Roberts and Gebby's intended for bullets no heavier than eight-five grains. We were using what components were in the market place at the time-thirty years ago.

One of the things which seems to me to stand out in this thread is the clear separation between the shooters with factory rifles chambered for the Swift and those with custom-barreled "fast-twist" Swifts.

I've owned a lot of Swifts and currently have three...or is it four? Just off the top of my head I can recall a Ruger No. 1, a Riedl falling block, and my M77-V in my vault. There may be another in there that I've temporarily forgotten.

Anyway whatever the number, I agree with Jerry Eden that even the 14" twist factory rifles are real fun guns, and that most folks (even in AZ) aren't shooting them at small animals 700 yards away...not even 700 unlasered "shooters' yards" .

And I agree with Jerry again that out to 450 or 500 yards, the Swift is primarily at its best with ca. 55 grain bullets. That's a good balance between bullet weight and velocity for a real flat shooter that still tends to explode prairie dog and fox size varmints.

I use 63 grain home-made bullets in my Swifts a lot primarily because that happens to be the size my .22 rimfire jacketed bullets from my bullet-making dies came out around. (Which is also handy in my fast-twist non-explosive .223 for turkeys and such.) But I mainly use my home-made bullets because they are cheap and let me shoot more. If I was going to use store-bought bullets, I'd definitely go with 55 grain bullets in the Swift.

Even that is heavier than the original factory bullets the Swift was designed to perform with. They were 48 grains for MANY years, if one looks back in time.

I recommend the Swift to folks who use mostly "stock" unaltered factory guns for DRT varmints and who may shoot factory ammo or who want handloads that duplicate traditional factory performance.

It is a great round with those medium weight pills.

Well I've never owned a swift and don't know what I'd do if I owned one. What am I missing here? roger

Well, Roger, they are a lot of fun to shoot. So are many other things, so depending on how much time you have, you may not be missing anything.

On the other hand, if you like targets of opportunity at unknown distances out to about 400 or 450 yards, they are marginally better than a lot of other cartridges because they shoot flatter with the same shape, diameter, and weight of bullets. Perhaps not enough to buy one just for that purpose, but enough to make me pick one if I'm gonna buy a longish range .22 anyway.

And on those rare occasions when you might have a use for a 70, 80, or even 90 grain .224" bullet at a lot faster velocity than a .223 or such can drive it, or a 50 grain .224" bullet at 4,100 to 4,200 fps, then they have those capabilities too. The .22-250 comes close to those kinds of things also, but when all is said and done, the Swift is just a little red hair better at them. Plus, I prefer rimmed cartridges over the rimless ones for falling block single shot rifles, and as you may have noted from my posts, I like single shot rifles.

But, a person can probably have plenty of fun without a Swift. I could do just fine forever, if I had to, varminting with my .223 Micro-Medallion Browning "Varmint" bolt gun. As I don't have to do that, I enjoy the Swift too.

I've even thought of trying out a .238 Swift, just for grins....

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Well, Roger, they are a lot of fun to shoot.

I hear and understand. When I was into long range hunting and such the arsenal was 22-250, 6mm x.270 IMP and 25-06 IMP. 400 yds. is about as far as I go today and it's all on metal and paper. All my game meat comes to me from youngsters. Had some really good ELK this year. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Well, Roger, they are a lot of fun to shoot.

Had some really good ELK this year. roger

Am glad to hear that. I like elk meat. Matter of fact, isn't that "really good ELK" a bit of a redundancy? I've never encountered any "really bad elk."

Best wishes for 2012, pal.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Well, Roger, they are a lot of fun to shoot.

Had some really good ELK this year. roger

Am glad to hear that. I like elk meat. Matter of fact, isn't that "really good ELK" a bit of a redundancy? I've never encountered any "really bad elk."

Best wishes for 2012, pal.

Some is just gooder than some other. Hope we're still kicking up dust and burning some powder when the next new year comes along. roger

scanning this, I didn't see anyone mention the often overlooked Speer 70 grain SMP.. 1 in 14 twists shoot it just fine...

I've always thought of making up a 220 Swift, and shooting that bullet out of it for deer hunting....

the one thing that has always stopped me from doing so is that the 220 Swift with that bullet, doesn't seem to give a lot more than the 22.250 will also give me... especially if I AI one of the 22.250s I already have...

I have no shortage of 22 caliber barrels I could have one chambered in, with twists from 1 in 12 down to 1 in 7...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
scanning this, I didn't see anyone mention the often overlooked Speer 70 grain SMP.. 1 in 14 twists shoot it just fine...

I've always thought of making up a 220 Swift, and shooting that bullet out of it for deer hunting....

Hi, Seafire, wondered where you were.... Glad to see you're still looking at the viney maple from the leafy side rather than from the under-the-roots viewpoint.


I've been using the Speer 70 grain bullet in the Swift off and on since the early 1960s. (I've also used it a lot in the .22/.30-30 Improved, the .219 Improved Zipper, the .22 Donaldson Wasp, and several other stone-flingers including the .22-250.)

Personally, I would not use it on deer. I've always considered it a rather fragile bullet for its weight, and though accuracy of that bullet is okay, it hasn't been great from any of my rifles.

And I don't use .22s on deer.

There is no doubt that .22s will kill deer very, very dead, and sometimes very, very quickly given a good shot, so that isn't the deal with me. It's just that I have so many other rifles which are better suited for the purpose because they don't require passing up as many shots because of angles, the part of the deer which is clear of the brush, etc.

(Plus, in the old days when I was very "financially challenged" and obliged to feed my wife and kids while I was attending U of O, I shot a lot of deer at a little after legal daytime shooting hours ended...like maybe 6 or 7 hours after...and I didn't want to hang around looking for where they may have gone to die.)

And it is true the AI .22-250 will come very close to the Swift with the 70 grain Speer, depending on which loads are used in each. But actually, that makes the point again for the Swift. There is no need to Ackley Improve the Swift chamber to get that performance. Just load the bullet and shoot it.

Anyway, as you don't have to alter anything to do it, you should try some of those Speers out from your box-stock .22-250(s) on some woods-walking safaris out behind your place. They do help keep the wild turkey crap off the roof rather well.