When my Hornady manual says starting load for 55gr using 4198 is 19.3 gr for velocity of 2800?

My question is? Do pressures start to climb to a dangerous point if you go lower in charge? I know that they do at some load point but where?
I pretty much go by the book, but I had another post about using Blue Dot to achieve a velocity range of 1800-2500 for plinking. I want these loads in addition to the normal faster load range.
I want to be safe, and I want to be able to use my rife, with different loads for different times.
New member, so far you all have been very helpful.
Rick

Simply do not use any Load that is not listed in a Manual written by a Bullet or Powder manufacturer and you will do fine. All kinds of erratic Pressure issues have been documented with the improper use of Blue Dot.

If it does not list a Velocity as low as you like, there are other Powders which are specifically designed to do what you are looking for.

If you really think people on the internet have tested the Loads you see them quote - as well as the manufacturers have with $$$Millions$$$ of Test equipment - then you have a lot yet to learn.

Best of luck to you.

look in the lyman manuals.
they have cast bullet loads in the 30-40k range that will do fine with the jacketed bullets.
for the lower vels a spsx or equivelant should be used for hunting.
i took a deer a couple of years ago with a load of unique and a speer 200 gr jacketed at just under 1800 fps.
no drama whatsoever.
the new trailboss powder also has load reccomendations for what you want to do and 4895 powder is shown in a lot of reduced loads.

As HotCore says stick with the listings in the manuals !. Those folks spent Boo Cuu bucks and a bunch

of time figuring out all that data . They average out Powders from lot to lot when testing .


So You don't have to and so you can keep all of your fingers eyeballs an teeth !.


In many cases reducing powder charges is FAR MORE DANGEROUS than increasing them !.

A limited number of fairly slow powders have been illustrated to be subject to a phenomenon called Secondary Explosion Effect (S.E.E.) when loaded to densities that are below a certain threshold. S.E.E. manifests itself in somewhat unpredictable pressure spikes thought to be caused by the ignition qualities of very slow powders. In general, reloaders are cautioned not to load "slow burning" (powders slower than IMR 4350) to densities less that about 80% or so of case volume.

S.E.E. has never been suspected, much less demonstrated, in powders as fast as IMR 4198. While a powder like IMR 4198 may perform somewhat unevenly at low densities, it will not exhibit dangerous S.E.E.-type detonation. In other words, feel free to go as low as you wish with IMR 4198 -- it may or may not provide the performance you are looking for, but there is nothing in any way dangerous about loading below some publishers arbitrary "starting load". When there is, the publisher will clearly say so.

There are several "fast burning" powders which behave very predictibly and evenly at low loading densities such as SR 4759, the relatively new Trail Boss, AA5744, and Hot Core's favorite, Alliant Blue Dot. These powders, and few others (Unique is an old standby in this area) do well when loaded to low densities and usually provide dependable reduced-velocity loads.

In larger cartridges, IMR/H-4895 is a favorite for low pressure loading, while in its own right it remains a stellar performer in full power loads for many medium-capacity cases. An abbreviated load of 4895 isn't too bad a bet for downloading your .223, either.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Simply do not use any Load that is not listed in a Manual written by a Bullet or Powder manufacturer and you will do fine. All kinds of erratic Pressure issues have been documented with the improper use of Blue Dot.

If it does not list a Velocity as low as you like, there are other Powders which are specifically designed to do what you are looking for.

If you really think people on the internet have tested the Loads you see them quote - as well as the manufacturers have with $$$Millions$$$ of Test equipment - then you have a lot yet to learn.

Best of luck to you.

I normally agree with Hot Core on most reloading issues.....on this subject I agree 100%.....if the load isn't listed.....don't use it!

yeah I also agree...

if you don't know what you are doing,
don't use any loads that you can't find listed in a book somewhere..

that way you can follow patterns in our society,

you can blame something you screwed up on someone else, instead of having to contemplate your own responsibility for your actions.

remember the way to get from rags to riches in America nowadays, is doing something stupid, and finding a good lawyer!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
if the load isn't listed.....don't use it!

Assuming that a load which no publisher (to the reader's knowledge) has listed is unsafe is the flip side of the coin of assuming that any load which some publisher has listed is safe. I can assure you that this is not the case. I would much prefer to shoot loads which are not listed, but which I know to be safe, than to take some publisher's data for granted. The latter can get you into trouble quickly.

He is talking about light loads, not full bore loads. Are you saying that listed starting loads will not be safe with listed components? NUTS? I would call Hodgon and ask them if they have Trail boss loads for the .223. They list .22-250 on up, so I would not be surprised if they have .223 loads as well. They pay techs to answer questions when you the customer asks, and usually quite well.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
if the load isn't listed.....don't use it!

Assuming that a load which no publisher (to the reader's knowledge) has listed is unsafe is the flip side of the coin of assuming that any load which some publisher has listed is safe. I can assure you that this is not the case. I would much prefer to shoot loads which are not listed, but which I know to be safe, than to take some publisher's data for granted. The latter can get you into trouble quickly.

Well said.. the only load that you know is safe, is the one you have worked up yourself, and tested in YOUR rifle, PERSONALLY.

then in the real world, you can only verify it is safe IN THAT RIFLE.

more than once I have seen load data, that was well below max, blowing primers in a rifle.

That is why an intelligent reloader, picks a point he would like to accomplish, starts lower and works up to that point.

Seems on these forums, many guys think it is more acceptable to try to turn a 30/06 into a 300 Win Mag, than it is to try and develop a load that turns an 06 into a 30/30.

or for the sake of this threads title, find it more acceptable to try and get a 223, to perform as close as possible to a Swift, instead of turning it into a 22 Hornet or 22 Win mag equivalent.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Assuming that a load which no publisher (to the reader's knowledge) has listed is unsafe is the flip side of the coin of assuming that any load which some publisher has listed is safe. I can assure you that this is not the case. I would much prefer to shoot loads which are not listed, but which I know to be safe, than to take some publisher's data for granted. The latter can get you into trouble quickly.

Soooo, basically you are saying the Powder and Bullet Manufaturers, with $$$Millions$$$ of various Pressure Testing equipment, are not reliable Load Data Sources.

But, someone who shoots a few hundred shots a year, doesn't know spit about Pressure, and blowhards about a Load with no reguard to whether the Powder used in it is being used properly, recommends Loads which have proven to create Pressure Excursions, have created the Secondary Explosion Effect, have multiple Ka-Booms, and exhibit the ever popular Erratic Pressure Spikes - is a better source on where to start Loading.
-----

Hey Vapo, Who was that you selected as the best source of info on the Board???

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Vapo, Who was that you selected as the best source of info on the Board???

Can you furnish a link?.....I'm not sure in what context this was said.

The fact that you even ask the question leads me to believe that you’re a novices or newbe. I don’t think it’s a wise practice for novices to experiment with loads that are not published. In spite of some peoples distrust of reloading manuals they are still the best source of reliable information.

I for one do not assume any given load is safe, it needs to be studied and tested. I feel a lot more comfortable with pressure information obtained through the use of a Universal Receiver than by someone’s arbitrary opinion on how flat a primer is after pulling the trigger.

If indeed “S.E.E. has never been suspected, much less demonstrated, in powders as fast as IMR 4198”, no problem, this is your chance to test the theory but if “while a powder like IMR 4198 may perform somewhat unevenly at low densities”, what’s the point? Like rifles, only accurate loads are interesting. If you need a “cap-gun” buy one, why try to make one out of a 223?.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Vapo, Who was that you selected as the best source of info on the Board???

Can you furnish a link?.....I'm not sure in what context this was said.

Oh good gosh, I probably got the wrong guy all together. Maybe it was that jack-leg RollTop, or maybe Mick, or Santa Clause, heck, I don't remember.