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not a magnum guy any more. But I like a decent flat shooting cartridge that does not kick a ton or burn out barrels to fast. I have a .270 witch seems about perfect. But rifle loony I am I am thinking of a 24 inch 6.5. Seems the .260 the creadmore or 6.5 x 284 would all work well. The 6.5 X 284 might actually out perform the 270 on paper. Thinking 130 grain bullets around 3100 or maybe 3200. Who besides savage is clambering the round ? | ||
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Don't overlook the classic 6.5x55 Swede. Loaded stout in modern rifles it's a solid performer. I've used mine on various deer, antelope, and hogs with excellent results. _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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I've used a MS 1903 6.5x54, performance is nowhere near the amped-up 6.5s but with either the 125 Nosler or 160 RN it is quite suitable for game up to small elk. Raising the velocity to flatten out the trajectory would extend the range to 300+ yards. | |||
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No, the 6.5x284 won't outperform the .270 -- either on paper or in the field. More powder (by a marginal amount) and a larger bore translates into more power. While it is theoretically possible that you might find some combination of bullet and powder which generated a load from the 6.5x284 which exceeded the energy of another given load from the .270 at some point downrange, there are many more combinations which provide the opposite result. This is doubly true if you attempt to crowd the 6.5x284 into a short action, thus requiring deeper bullet seating and further reducing the effective size of the pressure vessel. That said, you'll find no game animal which can discern the difference in being shot by one versus the other. So why would you desire one when you already have the other? If it is simply "to have", then that's reason enough; no need to justify it by some stretch of logic. | |||
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270 vs 6.5x284 ? Inside 400 to 500 yards head to head but beyond 500 yards the 6.5 beats the 270 hands down! 6.5 mm vs 6.9mm is a big jump in the world of BC It is no coincidence that the 6.5x284 has been the most used cartridge in 1000 yard competition shooting ! Now if we are talking hunting and "normal hunting distances" there is likely no difference between anything 6.5mm to 7mm and inbetween. | |||
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I've been shooting the 6.5x284 since it was a wildcat and still shoot it for 1,000 yard matches, varminting and occasional medium game. Past 500 yards it out performs the 270 mostly because of the much better bullets. I like the cartridge and trust it to work out to stupid distances. My best are a coyote at 732 yards and a prairie dog at 799 yards. I also shoot the 260 and the 270 and out to 500 yards or so. No appropriately sized animal will know any difference from any of the three cartridges. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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How about the 6.5x55? At the very least it matches what the majority of the new non magnum 6.5's can do in every department. Plus it has a very long history as a fine hunting and target round. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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No flies on the 6.5x55 however there is a caveat. Precision ! All of the more successful modern precision 6.5s share a common theme. They all share the "magical" neck angle formula of 30 deg, Some would contend why the 6.5 Creedmoor has the edge ? on the 260 with it's 40 deg neck angle. Some say a 260 done right ! The 6.5 Lapua also has the 30 deg angle. The 6.5x284 = 35 deg Both the 270 and 6.5 Swede are very capable and have been used very successfully as hunting cartridges, of that there cannot be any doubt but in both the design is dated in terms of efficiency. These itty bitty new 6.5's do it better in terms of precision with less powder, less velocity and less recoil. | |||
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With the new bergers an hornady's eldx the 270 has come back onto my radar. Reloader 26 an VV N570 really help out also I just put together a 270 on a pre 64 with brux 1x8 26" barrel. Doing the break in but very happy so far. | |||
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It always seemed funny most sporter .270's have a 22" tube on them. The earlier 270's had 24", why handicap a long range rig? | |||
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Thanks for all the input. My 270 is a Husqvarna. Barrel measures 21 1/2 inches. I like that length in a light weight. You might loose a few feet in velocity. 100 feet at most compared to a 24. More likely about 75. To me that means almost nothing. Long range to me is 300 yards maybe 350. I think of all the rounds mentioned in this thread as light kicking easy packing deer rifles. If I am going to carry a big heavy rifle ill make it a magnum....tj | |||
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I shoot 6,5X68 schüler and .270wea. I Will fill you in later this spring what is the most flatshooting of the these two. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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I own 3 6.5x55s, 6.5x284,6.5x06AI and a 264 win mag. These are all very pleasant to shoot. I cannot discern a "killing difference" between any of them. Ballistically the 264 win mag is the king. It shoots a 140 Nosler Accubond at 3200 and is the 6.5 that all the "new" 6.5/264s are trying to be. Any of them will suit you just fine. | |||
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A 260 Rem is a handy cartridge. Done up in a short action light rifle it is real handy. Cases can be easily formed from plentiful 308 brass. The 6.5x55 is very good also. Stay with a modern 6.5x55 rifle. | |||
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The Schuler is a "problem child"  For whatever reason when Lampel Furth of RWS designed this cartridge they did so with a very slow barrel twist making it suitable for their 93gr bullet with the 127 gr bullet as heaviest option. CIP then followed with this slow twist requirement so that most CIP regulated factory gunmakers build them with this rather ridiculous and very limiting barrel twist rate. The result is that the Schuler will not stabilize any of the long range bullet options, they keyhole ! This then effectively makes the Schuler a wickedly fast mouse gun ! The 93 gr RWS was fast, very fast for its time ! | |||
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Ja ein problem!.  8,1gram Nosler Par @ 1015 m/sek... I like my Mauser 66 in 6,5Schüler. In this combo I have 4 top names in German gun/cartridge making.... Walter Gehmann, Vom Hofe, August von Schüler and Mauser. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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 Golly guys, don't forget the 6.5 R-Bar! rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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If you are inside of 350 yards, I'm not sure there would be a difference for you on deer sized game. In that case, I'd go with the Creedore personally, more factory rifle options if that is the way you plan to go. I have a 6.5x284, it's a hammer, but with a 24" barrel on a Sako action, it's a little heavier than I like. Actually looking at the Kimber Hunter (my cheap side) in the Creedmore to go lighter and use less powder since I too shoot mostly under 300 yards. The 6.5x284 with 130 grain TSX bullets took down a decent PA whitetail a little over a year ago at 240 yards facing me. I had missed the first shot (rushed it) but thought I had hit and this would be a finishing shot or I never would have taken it. Hit just to the left of the deer's brisket, went all the way through and out between the ribs and ham, deer literally flipped and was dead when it landed facing 180 degrees from me. ______________________ Ken A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. --- Greek Proverb | |||
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Small cal Ken The only mill I made with a Barnes was. 100 grain tripple shock from a .257 Roberts. small mule buck. 100 yards . I was impressed today the least. I would love to take an Elk. With a 150 grain. Ttsx in a .308. ...tj | |||
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I've done various "Quickload" predictions with various .264 cartridges from the 6.5 Swede to the .264 Win Mag and everything in between. When loaded to equal pressure, the 6.5 Swede will perform as well or better than any. Even the .264 Win Mag won't significantly out outperform the old Swede. With 24" barrels, the 264 Win Mag and 6.5-.284 only beat out the Swede by 100 fps when loaded to the same pressure. I plan to chamber a 1934 Mexican Mauser action in 6.5 Swede and @ 60K GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Some things I do see in all these "this vs that" arguments and examples used to "prove a point"...ESPECIALLY with the 6.5, or maybe it's the 7mm vs 30, or was it the 20 vs 224...in the old apples vs oranges...military vs commercial...Ruger vs Win...push feed vs CRF...or...what I see mostly is NO ONE considers USABLE CASE VOLUMES...MANY don't know what this actually is so no one thinks to add it into the arguments. I have yet to see the 6.5 contenders going head to head with the SAME barrel lengths, SAME bullet OR loaded to the SAME pressure...and while QL is an excellent tool for predicting data I have gotten spurious data on numerous occasions. These contenders, using modern metallurgy in the receivers and barrels AND modern brass in their cartridges, can be loaded to MODERN pressures....say 60KPSI, forget what SAMMI says...he is used for standardization more than anything else. MOST of them share similar case volumes and if you put them into categories that ARE similar they WILL PRODUCE similar velocities...ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL like barrel length, bullet weight, pressure etc. I never could quite see what the argument was between a 50 gr case and a 60 gr case or a 70 gr case....it's simple physics as to which one will win a velo duel...what's the point. One case as illustration...I have a OLD 1893 Sav 99 300 Sav custom made for someone WAY back when with a 26" bbl, 12" pull stock, take down, TINY forend and Lyman tang sight...shoots very nice...SAMMI listed pressure for that cartridge is 52939 psi, SAMMI case volume 52.5 gr...I also have several 308's whose listed SAMMI pressure is 62KPSI, case volume 56 gr...there is ONLY about 3.5 gr difference give or take depending on the case brand ACCORDING TO QL....not hardly enough to get all hot and bothered about yet all you have to do is research a bit to see the craziness in the argument between these two cartridges. I can run QL scenarios till the goats come home and, of course, the 308 wins every time...LOADED TO SAMMI SPEC PRESSURES...run BOTH cases at EQUAL PRESSURE and I can reverse the standings just by mucking about with barrel lengths. In reality, between my 300 Savage 26" bbl at SAMMI pressure and a 16" 308 at SAMMI pressure with the SAME BULLET weight, the 300 Sav comes out 100 fs ahead using the same powder BUT 2 GR LESS in the Savage AT each ones SAMMI pressure...the case volumes being 3 gr different...BUT...WHEN I dig around and found a 308 case with a case volume of 54 gr and the same case volume in a 300 Savage both QL and my chrono gave almost identical velo readings for 5 rounds...again at SAMMI spec pressures. BUT...I wouldn't crank the pressures up in My old Savage so back to QL...The 308 has a COAL 0f 2.80", the 300 is 2.60"...IF you adjust COAL'S along with all the other "keep it equal" parameters it comes out that the 300 actually has a higher USABLE CASE VOLUME...NOT MUCH but it's still there. KEEPING IT REAL. QL crunching..150 SP Horn #3031, 54 gr case volume, 26" bbl...MODERN pressures...300 Sav, 50.1 CFE 223, 3011 fs/59139 psi/49.9 gr USABLE CASE VOLUME...308, 48.5 CFE 223, 2980 fs/59170 psi/47.2 USABLE CASE VOLUME...2.7 gr difference in USABLE CASE VOLUME. Of course this is nothing but smoke and mirrors...anyone who's done this reloading thing and has gotten deep into ballistics can use numbers to run you up the flagpole Now we can reduce the inane arguing to maybe shoulder angles...THEN...someone needs to do the same sort of testing for the shoulder angles...but then it would be hair splitting about the case volume of this one vs the case volume of that one. Ya get my drift...the same arguments are used constantly over and over, yet we hardly EVER come to a consensus over the fact that CHOICE IS GOOD...there will ALWAYS be a bigger vs smaller...basically "my dog is better than your dog and off to the races we go...pretty much any cannon you use will get the job done in some form or fashion and a few thou difference in caliber or a few grains difference in bullet weight is enough to cause a riot at the right time or place...     .. Luck   | |||
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No they will not and do not ! They are all different and the difference lies in the two efficiencies commonly used to describe the internal ballistics cycles of guns. The first and most obvious difference is ballistic efficiency or simply the V/C value of the cartridge. The most efficient cartridges in the 6.5 lineup are the Creedmoor and the 260 The creedmoor on a typical load for a 129/130 gr bullet will give about 68 fps per grain of powder for a max load and velocity The 260 gives about 67 fps per gr of powder. The very fast 26 Nosler is actually very inefficient because at max load it will generate about 41 FPS per gr of powder. The 264 Win beats the 26 Nosler with a V/C value of 51 fps per gr. The 6.5x55 is not that bad because it generates about 63 fps per gr of powder. The second difference lies in what is called the peizometric efficiency or pressure efficiency of the cartridge (gun) This has to do with the ratio between mean barrel pressure to peak chamber pressure. The PE of the Creedmoor and 260 Rem are moderate when compared to the 26 Nosler or 264 Win The result is that the Creedmoor and 260 give smaller intershot variation in velocity than the 264 or the 26 Nosler. This then relates to higher precision for the Creedmoor and the 260 when compared to the much faster 264 and 26 Nosler. Hence then the fact that the slower / less recoil / less blast creedmoor and 260 are so popular in long range competition. The 6.5-284 has a V/C value of about 58. | |||
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I like the .260 rem / and 7mm-08 .. you mentioned 31-3200 fps that will be very hard to do with 130,s in a short action non-magnum. in my .260 rem. im loading 45.5 grains H-4350 with 120's just a hair over 2900. 3100 is almost hard to do with 130's in 270 | |||
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I think that is just what I said... Comparing a 6.5 x 284 at ~66 gr case volume with the 260 or Creedmore at ~54 gr case volume is comparing apples and cumquats. Comparing a 22" bbl(as an example) with a 24 or 26" bbl is comparing road apples to pineapples. Comparing one powder that works best in a 66 gr case to one that works best in a 54 gr case is, again, doing the same thing...you are adjusting parameters to obtain the best performance and efficiency maybe, if that's what your looking for, but there are MANY other parameters that shooters look for. Compare SIMILAR case volumes, SAME bbl length, SAME bullet weights, etc...I wasn't comparing cartridge efficiency...that comes by adjusting ALL the parameters for a specific cartridge to maximum output to another cartridge given the SAME adjustments, then playing with the numbers...EFFICIENCY was NOT what I was trying to point out. That's just what I tried to show using the 300 Sav and the 308. Case capacities were the same and as long as the USABLE CASE VOLUME was kept the same the cases produced the same velo with all that boiler plate for velocity variations added in. THAT parameter variable, USABLE CASE VOLUME, was caused by bullet seating depth because the two cases had SLIGHTLY different OAL's. As I wasn't comparing OAL's I didn't include that parameter in my discussion and THAT parameter was the difference in USABLE CASE VOLUME. A slight change in bullet seating in the 308 would have given identical USABLE CASE VOLUMES and a change in velo. You can see the why's and wherefores by closely examining the case measurements and why the 300 Sav is a very efficient case but only slightly compared to the 308 and ONLY if both cases parameters were adjusted to maximum efficiency...again NOT what I was attempting to point out. My point was also that MOST SHOOTERS don't bother with the fine minutia, and most of what I was trying to pass on went flying by because of no interest in the subject...and You, ALF, interpreted what I said in your own way...again...no flame or diss intended...that's what humans do, interpret in light of their own experience and interests. I wasn't trying to show efficiency, just how miss-interpretation and comparing of Apples to Oranges in the parameters gets the arguments going and how we are quick to judge and respond. I've played with several 284 cased calibers from 22 to 7mm, have a 6mm and a 6.5 284, 22-243 and several more highly inefficient wildcats in my rack now and played with the 260 way in the past when it wasn't a commercial round and have a 6.5 Creedmore barrel coming for my AR, so I do have a modicum of knowledge and information going back a ways...certainly not as much as some but a little mort than others and I see your point about efficiency, but sometimes a rifle just says "whiz on it" when it comes to what it likes and efficiency goes out the door. I'm sure you've had rifles that just like certain component combinations that are no where near being the most efficient.  Luck | |||
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Not sure if all 6.5x68 rifles have that slow twist. I have a Voere rifle built on a 98 mauser action in 6.5x68. It shoots the 125 gr Partition and the 129 gr Hornady bullets very accurately. I've taken antelope and deer with it. Took one deer at around 100 yds with the 129 gr Hornady and things got a little messy. However at 200 yds plus the Hornady bullet performs quite well. Similar to a 270 WSM and close to a 270 Wby. Wouldn't be my first choice of a rifle for larger game but in open country there is nothing wrong with this caliber. | |||
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6.5x68 CIP twist rate = 1:250mm = 1:9.84 inches 6.5 x 55 CIP twist rate =1:220mm =1:8.66 6.5x54 MS was 1:9 my 6.5x58 P Mauser Vergueiro 1904 has a twist of 1:7,9 inches All CIP signee countries built their factory rifles to this twist rate of 1:9,84 for the 6.5x68 Mauser 66 = 1:250mm Blaser = 1:250 Sauer = 1:250 Voere: 6.5x68 = 1:10 inches as per their website. Lothar Walther barrels: in 6.5x68 = 1:9,8 inches as per CIP I have two 6.5x68's One is a Sauer 202 and the other a custom Mauser with a Lothar Walther barrel. RWS make their ammo in 93 gr and 127 gr. The 127 gr for a reason because it's the upper limit for stability in this long twist barrel.  130 gr TSX BT with H 4350 130 TSX BT with RL 19 | |||
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That's the nice thing about chambering a barrel blank, you can specify whatever twist rate you want.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Just my Opinion: Absolutely the 6.5x55, no need to look anywhere else. A much more classy Cartridge than any 6.5/264 super mag wonder round. It has very mild recoil. Also Factory ammo , Brass, and Reloading components are all very easy to obtain. You certainly don't have to hot rod it or load it to the max either. The 6.5x55 has Historically been used by hunters to take some of the largest game on earth ! Standard type loads will handle any Whitetail, Wild Hog, Pronghorn, Mule Deer ect. that your likely to run across. If you ever encounter a critter that a standard 6.5x55 load wont handle, then extra fps wont help you. At that point its time to step up in caliber ! | |||
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You can't change physical law, so if you have a 270 that you're happy with, why change just for the sake of change? You're going to get less MV from any of the smaller case capacity 6.5mm bore cartridges, equal MV (more or less) from the 6.5-06, and more MV from larger case capacity 6.5mm bore cartridges. If you want less recoil, you're going to have to go with a smaller, slower, 6.5 bore cartridge or a rifle with a stock that manages felt recoil better than your current stock. I currently have around 50 6.5mm bore rifles, mostly short actions in 6.5 Creedmoor, 260, and 6.5-284, but also a few long actions in 6.5x55, 256 Newton, and 6.5-284. I also have 9 rifles chambered in 270 and probably hunt with two of them, a Colt Light Rifle and a Remington 760, as often as with all of the 6.5mm bore rifles. The 270 is just too easy to shoot and too good to ignore if the great majority of your hunting, like mine, is done under a 1/4 mile range. | |||
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I.have three different 6.5 calibers the 6.5 hap,260 Remington ,264 win.mag.I really like the 264 win mag it's awesome for long range .I.am really impressed with the 260 Remington.I bought two 260 rem in a savage model 11 it's super accurate .I.have yet to.load any bullet.that.shot.over an inch with those savages .My 264 win mag has a very short throat which.I hate can't hardly use any .264 bullets except 140 grain Remington or 140 grain.Winchester any other bullet had to be seated very deep .The little savage 260 is not.bullet picky and is easy to.load for.I use 308 brass which is easy to find and works perfect .I would try a 260 rem in a savage with good bullets ! | |||
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My best friend and I had two switch-barrel rifles made up in 6.5WSM and .338WSM just for the fun of it. The 6.5 has proven to be a great all-round rifle for use in Colorado. The actions were Remington 700 shorts with magazines modified to increase the available cartridge length. We've hunted a lot with the 6.5s and love them. The .338 barrels were taken to Africa for a plains game hunt. Worked great also. .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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Gentlemen, What about the 6.5X65 RWS for a LA. Both of mine have been wickedly accurate. And for a short action; the 6.5X47 Lapua. | |||
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I'm sorry gents. I know my selection is not the most super whiz bang but it is the most classic + will do everything that it is required to do as well as having one of the best sectional density reports. That is the 6.5x54 M/S 160G. The bore for case capacity exceeds even the 7x57 or the 257 Roberts. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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'Course, there ain't no rifle crank or hand loader around who would juggle numbers to justify his wants or that would split hairs... Come to think of it, isn't that at least part of why we handload? I sort of enjoy juggling numbers and splitting hairs... but, somewhere reality should set in.There isn't a critter that thinks, "oh, I've been shot with a 6.5, 140 gr. bullet at 2600 fps. so that isn't so bad. Sure glad it wasn't a 270, 130 gr. at 3000 fps". Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me". John 14:6 | |||
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Depending on what velocity you were looking for I'd go with a 6.5-06 or a 264 mag. 22" 6.5 CM I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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I have owned a 6.5x58R, 6.5x57, 6.5 06, 6.5x284, 6.5x65, 6.5x68 but with out a doubt the Swede is my favorite of all. Soft shooting and very capable without the muzzle blast of the 65 or the 68. Easy to reload...components available...what's not to like. The 6.5x57 would be my second choice. | |||
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Alf Thanks for sharing that info. Do you have any record of the velocity you were getting with the H4350 load that was keyholing and the RL19 load that grouped the 130 TSX much better ?? I was using RL22 and IMR 7828 in testing in my rifle.I was getting good groups with the 125 gr Partition and the 129 gr Hornady using IMR 7828. Both were in the 1 to 1-1/4 inch range. I tried some 140s with 7828 but they opened up to 3in groups @ 100 yds so I never tested any further.The 125 gr partition is quite effective at 6.5x68 velocities.Many use 130 gr bullets in a 270 for elk and the 6.5x68 with the 125 partition would be at least equal and likely faster than the 270. | |||
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I have a Winchester Model 70 in 280, a great cartridge. However, I will sell the barrel, and have it rebarreled for the 6.5x65 RWS. Nothing changes, except the barrel. I picked up 120 cases from Huntington's five years ago. Now they are mocking me. Three projects come first: finish the stock for my 9.3x64mm, have my 6PPC single shot Sako Varmint rifle's receiver straightened, and then a new Bartlein Barrel chambered, my 9.3x70 needs to be chambered (I have the stock, the barrel, and another 120 cases, which have also been mocking me.) I will have to check on the neck angle of the 6.5x65 RWS. It is always a compromise between easy feeding, and top ballistic efficiency.  | |||
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^^what he said !!!!! | |||
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