Does anyone own and shoot a 30-30 AI? I would like some up-to-date data (I have P. O. Ackley's book) on reloads, as well as opinions on the usefulness of the cartridge. I have an old Marlin I would like to have converted. Who are some of the people who can do the conversion and where are they located? Thanks in advance. Mags

Paco Kelley had a good article on the 30-30 improved. I think if you google for sixgunner articles paco you should be able to find it.

I've never loaded a 30-30, ackley or otherwise so can't help.

The A.I. doesn't offer much in the way of increased performance, because the case isn't all that much bigger inside. If you look at a drawing of the .30-30, you'll see it already has little body taper. Ackley blew the shoulder forward. The increase is only about 1.5 gn of water. Ackley's claims for better performance resulted from raising the pressure, not the case volume.

Kelly blew the shoulder even farther forward, and he likely gets about 2.5 gn. You can contact him via his leverguns.com site. He's been kind enough to answer a query or two of mine. The sixgunner.com site is undergoing yet another change, and you might not find there the article Paul H refers to. However, the google search he suggested might find a copy in its cache.

If you like high SD bullets, you can have your reamer cut to allow for a very long throat. This will improve net case capacity far more than the case shape. For instance, a 200 gn bullet seated at the std. COL has about 31 gn water under it. Going to AI gives about 32.5 gn, but keeping this case and seating the bullet only .33" deep gives 40.2 gn net.

The QuickLoad simulator predicts fps going from about 1950 to 2100 with this latter change. (You'll get the same result if you use the rule of thumb that the % fps increase is 1/4 the % increase in net case volume.)

QL also suggests you'll need to use the more compact ball powders to do so. Kelly recommends 760 for high SD bullets in the .30-30, and QL agrees.

If you like long barrels on your single shot (I do), go to a 26" tube and you should be able to blow 220 RN bullets out the end at 2050 fps at std. pressures. This matches the performance of the early .303 sporting loads (215 gn at 2050), and that remains a respectable big game load to this day.

there is some 14" 30-30AI handgun data in an article at "handgunhunt.com"
........and also in the reloading forum section at "specialty pistols" site.
.........and again in the firearm article section at "boartuff outdoors"

the data came from several handgun barrels.

i love my 14" 30-30AI contender pistol!

Since I'm getting back into the contender game, I started looking at various wildcats, and other options. The one thing that can be a turn off to wildcatting is expensive custom dies. Well, I figured that if you use a 30 WSM die to bump the shoulder back and size the neck, you can get about the maximum useful capacity from the 30-30. You would have to get a custom reamer ground. I have a big pile of 30-30 brass, and like sharp shoulders to keep the case from growing.

This will be a short necked round, though a longer neck than the 300 savage, and the case would be blown out nearly straight. I don't know how much case capacity would be gained, and if you couldn't gain at least 12% case capacity, it really isn't worth the effort.

The real answer for an action that can handle the pressure is the 307 Winchester. The case is enough larger to make the conversion worth while.

expensive custom dies aren't necessary for the 30-30AI. reddings are $50+ and LEE has em for around $25. midway carries em.

Mags,

Contact Cliff Labounty @ 360.599.2047. He is as good if not better than the rest. I converted a 1948 336 w/24" barrel to AI.

I get 2390fps safely w/Barnes150XFN/RL15(Barnes lists 2317fps as max for 3030, but I have found their max to be hot in other cartridges), I get 2500fps safely w/Horn150RN/RL15(Hornady lists 2300fps range as max for 3030). I get 3000fps safely w/Horn90XTP's/RL15. I think I could get more velocity from powders other than RL15, but I am trying not too deviate from powders that are favorites w/some of my other rifles, and the performance I have experienced so far is good for now.

From a performance standpoint, rechambering a perfectly good 3030 does not make much sense. However, if you are looking at a new barrel or simply want to do it, then why not?

If I can get the loads down to 2MOA or less (I'm still playing), I see the 150RN and 150XFN as good deer loads out to 200yrds and especially in thicker vegetation.

I am planning to use the 90XTP's for Coyote's.

Deke.

quote:

I am planning to use the 90XTP's for Coyote's.

Deke.

dont overlook the 130 grain Speer for coyote. The 130 grain Speer shoots well in my rifles. My velocity goal for this bullet was 2700 fps in the .30-30AI. At that velocity and in the higher velocity of the .307 Winchester this bullet will shoot 1.5" with regularity. Until recently it was the most accurate bullet I had used in the .307.

Slim,

I was trying to get a bullet that would come apart and not have much of an exit hole(s). Accoring to Hornady the 100SJ's I was shooting do not have a hollow point, and they have a thicker jacket than the 90XTP(a pistol bullet designed for much less velocity) and would most likely pass through. I shot one Coyote w/the 100SJ, but it was not a good indicator since it was a head shot and of course I wrecked the fur. I would think that the Speer130's would be more likely to pass through.

Deke.

The Speer 130's will pass through.
We have no place here to sell the hides so we dont think of it much.
The Sierra 125 grain JHP is pretty fragile when loaded to 2700 fps. I have shot raccoon with them and had several small slivers come out but no big gaping holes.
i load the .30 carbine bullets, both FMJ and JSPRN to 3000 fps and they are both pretty explosive. Some slivers will exit though. My shots tend to be close.
The good thing about the 125 grain Sierra is they are easier to load long so they work through the magazine of a Winchester M-94 smoothly. When loaded to the cannalure i have problems with them wanting to raise their nose to high as the lifter brings the cartridge up.

Slim,

I think you may have used Hodgon Benchmark in you 3030AI's and as I recall, it gave you significant velocity gains over other powders w/150gr bullets. Do you (or anyone else) know where its burn rate is in comparison to others?

Deke.

The 30/30 AI doesnt show any shine at all until you get into heavier bullets..This is (imo) cross board with ackleys hackery,but really rears its head in the thuddy thuddy version..(imo) the ackley formula goes like this ...cost of orig. gun + ackley chambering is = to or > than the cost of a gun already out there just begging to do the job properly..

In the cases I checked it's more like a 3 grn increase. My marlin with the old conventional rifleing does 2500 fps and a bit with a 150. It doesnt reach the vel of a factory 300 sav as claimed, but doesnt do half bad either.

TSJ,

Your results mirror mine.

Charger,

Would agree about the costs, but simply like the looks of the Winchesters and Marlins over the Savage, so I will stick with Marlin pushing 150's @ 2500fps (maybe more with Benchmark.....). Now does anyone know where the burn rate of benchmark is?

Deke.

Heck fellas,
if you are going to ream out a 30-30 in a contender, go with the 307 win...

30-30 43 gr h20
307 - 54gr...

at the same pressure, the 307 will go faster.. and there ARE factory dies and reamers

jeffe

309 JDJ !!!!

Yes the 307 is faster, but don't know if it will shoot 3030 factory ammo like the 3030AI will. Would think it tough to find 307 ammo (or even 300Savage) if ever in a pinch.

Does anyone out there have quickload and if so could they calc whether Benchmark or RL15 will give me more velocity with the Barnes 150XFN (currently getting 2390fps using R-P brass, FedGM210Match primers, 36.5grRL15, Marlin336w/24"barrel/3030Ackley)?

For what its worth, I get 2500fps using Horn150RN and 37.5grRL15. I am leaning towards the Barnes since its velocity surpasses the Hornady @ 100yrds and traditionally the Barnes is a much better penetrator. If accurate enough, this load will be used for Deer and Antelope out to 200yrds and maybe a Cow Elk at closer ranges.

Deke.

quote:

Dwindling the worlds lead supply one cat at a time!!

Hey,I'm doin my bit.Popped one tonight off hand through the head at 80 yds with the ol 85 45/60..They say a cat dont got much brains...Judging by the treeline behind the shot,I would beg to differ

First thing I found out with my 30-30 Ackley, is that the brass is too soft. To be able to take full advantage of the "cling" factor and pressure "bucking" abillities, I found using .375 Winchester brass is much stronger. Using regular 30-30 dies they neck down very easy, then fireform as normal. Having recently discovered this, I am now going through the loading procedure and will update sometime soon.

9.3nut,

What bullets and powders are you considering? Look forward to your findings.

Deke.

Deke,
I am using 170 grn. Speer. However I am going to try spire points and load the rifle with one in the chamber and only one in the magazine (safer that way).
9.3

Reading PO Ackley's books I seen that he tryed a test on the 30-30 IMP by moving back the bolt on a Marlin 336 I think it was, he cut or moved the bolt so far back that it would not touch the shell and just the firing pin would hit it. The shell stayed in the chamber !!!! NO back thrust. With its straighter side walls it would swell out and hold onto the chamber walls and not move.

9.3,

I tried barnes 165 spire points, but they were very long making it tough to get enough powder in the case and fit in my 336.

short,

I will buy the fact that there might be very little bolt thrust with the 3030AI (has to be some since the brass will expand then snap back). However, I would be cautious in applying the same idea to other AI cartridges since most, if not all, others operate at much higher pressures. Also take note that the load data in Ackley's book for the 3030AI was NOT for a lever action. I have been told by MANY that this load data which was developed for a stronger action is too hot for the 336 and 94. Supposedly with these two lever actions, the weakness is at the barrel threads and these guns could be damaged with the published 3030AI info.

Deke.

Deke,
Thanks for the info. I won't use excess pressure, I will use the spire points only for the seldom shots beyond the 30-30's bush capabailities

jeffeosso,

Is it safe to rechamber a contender to 307 Winchester, and shoot factory rounds in it?

I always thought that was to much pressure for the contender.

For those that are interested, I settled on 43.0gr RL15 and Hornady 90gr XTP's as a song dog load. It chrony's just over 3000fps in my 24" Marlin, and get this, 1.5" groups (7/8MOA, had 2 of the 4 round group through the same hole) at 175 yards prone off my portable rest. I had been using the Hornady 100SJ's, but they did not appear to have the quality of the XTP's and their noses got buggered up in the tubular magazine resulting at best w/2MOA. I think the hollow point helps contribute to the XTP's accuracy, and Hornady said the XTP's thinner jacket and hollow point will make them fragment well. Probably will wait to November/December before I bust a yote and see how it does where fur is an issue (hopefully no exit or just small fragments...).

Deke.