does anybody here shoot a 25-.308 (.308 case necked down to 25 caliber) if so, what have been your experiences with it.

would that also be the same thing as the .243 necked up to 25 caliber?

How would it compare with the .250 savage

The 25/308 is called the 25 Souper (souper not super). For many reasons it never took off, probably because of the existence of the 25.06, 243 and 260 nobody saw any advantage to the round.

It should out perform the 250 Savage about as well as the 308 does the 300 Savage I would assume, 100 - 200 fps in similar weight bullets.

Do an internet search on 25 Souper, there is a lot of information out there.

Look for also the "257 Humdinger" .243 case,45deg shld.blown out to the max,100gn@3200,120gn@3000 theres an article in the back pages of "Cartridges of the world" 10th Edition.

I have a Ruger 77 RSI rechambered from 250AI to 25 Souper and think that it is a great little cartridge. All things being equal, it can be loaded to fall between the 257 Roberts and 257AI, faster than both the 250-3000 and 250AI. The 25 Souper got negative publicity in POA #2. I think that POA did that because it wasn't his idea, didn't have a 40 degree shoulder, and wasn't called the 25-08AI. I think that it is the best sa 25 wildcat for shorter barreled rifles, under 22", and think that the 25-284 is the best sa 25 wildcat for longer barreled rifles, 22"+.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
Look for also the "257 Humdinger" .243 case,45deg shld.blown out to the max,100gn@3200,120gn@3000 theres an article in the back pages of "Cartridges of the world" 10th Edition.

Woodjack,
I think someone needs to tell you COTW's published velocities are as "optimistic" as the wildcatters loads from the 50s.

A 257 roberts (a much larger case, even if the 243 is improved) is DONE at 3050 with a 100gr should have said 120gr bullet.. I don't mean it could be pushed more, I mean 1 more grain of powder and you'll leak primers.

Like I keep saying, there's 2 ways to get "te same" velocties
larger case, lower pressure
smaller case, higher pressure

To beat a larger case, you ALWAYS have to have higher pressure. Everytime, always, there's no way around physics

that being said, "pressure" has nothing to do with velocity <img src="http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//happy/roflmao.gif" alt="roflmao" width="39" height="15"><!--graemlin::roflmao:-->

work under the pressure CURVE determines velocity.this is why we have 234214 different powders

If one had say a 257 roberts, and loaded it to 60kpsi (i dont)
with bluedot, vel would be about 1800fps, and CRITICAL in pressure threshold

with 748 or 760, vel would be ~3000fps.

jeffe

If you think the 257 Roberts is done at 3050 with a 100 grain bullet take a look at Noslers ammo line. They list a 110gr accubond at 3075.

JPK

Oh, and they list the 100 grain ballistic tip at 3175.

JPK

To me the 25 Souper is SUPER! I agree with 260 Rem as to it being the all-around best for a SA. The nice thing about the use of the 308 case for wildcatting is the quality of the brass a guy can get! As the "gurus" said-- The weakest link in the system is the case! This being said the much stronger cases like you can get from Lapua etc do make a difference. For myself I use ONLY Military LC N.M. cases. Why? I got plenty and they`re REALLY tough! Heck I also use these same cases for my 250/3000 AI too. Lots of work but worth it. With these cases and in my own Souper I get easily 3200 [Chrony] with the 100 Gr Hornady bullets. This is from a 22 1/2" barrel. No extraction problems or flattened primers. Accuracy is very good[ for me] and plenty enough for these little Blacktail around here. As the 100 gr bullets are the heaviest I shoot for anything the Souper is just fine with me.

Aloha, Mark

Bohica

How is your 25 Souper put together? What action and barrel. And who did the chambering for you.

Jeffeoso,
Regarding the "Humdinger", as you may be aware this wildcat was made up in Australia. Breil Jackson and Andy Montgomery (Editor/Asst Tech Editor) of Guns & Game magazine have been publishing a few articles on "compact wildcats". The Humdinger was one of those. They've also published on the 14 Walker-Hornet, 22 Taranah Hornet (modified Hornet case for use in ZKW465), 257EGGS (.25cal on improved 221 case), recently the 270 Hog Hunt (270/223), and the 35 Sambar (35WSM). From reading the articles, I doubt they do any pressure testing, just load it up and use experience, the chronograph and visual signs to determine maximum loads. That may explain the high velocities... they often use the term "Pressure too hot" in their load data but dont mention how that was assessed.
Cheers...
Con

22WRF- take a look at the loading data for my 257 DGR- it is very similar to the 25/08. you can see the data on my web page. 3100fps is very easy with a 100gr bullet.

http://www.duanesguns.com

Dear 22WRF,
Sorry to be so long in responding. Been away for a while. My 25 Souper was built by me. Action is a Rem 600 with a Shilen Match barrel, Kevlar stock and all action work done. Bolt has a AR 15 extractor. It likes IMR 4350 and Nosler 100 gr Solid Base bullets and kills really good. Happy Thanksgiving and a Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Aloha, Mark

This is my first year loading and shooting the 25 Souper. In the past I've had 2- 257 Robs., a 257AI, 5 or 6 25/06s(have 2 presently), and 2 - 250 Sav. Each has it's own nitch and they have all been fun. I went with the Souper just because I wanted something different and also the action I was going to use.

The med. lenght Sako(L579 & L57) don't seem to feed a 57mm case as cleanly as they do a 308 case. Also I had 50lbs. of 308 military brass I wanted to use. The difference between the Souper and the 257Rob. is the same as the 243 vrs. the 6mm Rem. In equal barrel length they are almost the same. The only black mark against the Souper is the cost of the dies. I lucked out and found a full lenght size die for the Souper for $25 on another classifides board.

The Souper gives in a 22in. barrel:
75gr.-3400-3500fps
87gr.-3200-3300fps
100gr.-3000-3100
120gr.-2800-2900fps
Just the same as the Roberts, any more and you'll either lose primerpockets or stand the chance of setting back the lugs of your action.

Ps- This year my Souper has accounted for 2 deer and 3 coyotes. Longest shot be on a coyote at 291yds. lazier ranged after the shot.

Just got mine will try to up load pics next day or so. I had a hart ss heavy barrel put on to a rem 722 action and had it bedded in an hs stock. the work was done by mark pinkston aka bohica. he did a wonderful job on the rifle. sent it to banks behling ocmulgee arms to have the barrel duracoted to match the stock, banks is a great guy to work with also. Must also add that both were paitent with me to make sure i got what i wanted.
I shot some 70 rounds of necked up rp 243 brass, with 86 grain remington psp and 35 grains of aa2230. I used this combo because i have alot of all these. the above load was to fireform brass and break in the barrel. i shot 1.5 at 100 yds with this break in load.
I have shot 10 rounds with rp brass and 10 rounds with lapua brass, 75grain hornday hp and 39 grains of varget this load came in well under 1 inch. have not had time to set up the chrony to check the velocity yet but will next time. as i am just fireforming and breaking in the barrel i was not concerned with velocity just yet. this is a very heavy rifle and recoil so far is light.
My plan is to keep working up to max load of varget and see what i get for accuracy and velocity on the way. Am also going to try vit 150 using the same procedure hopefully i will get some thing that works between these two powders and several different bullets.

arky65

Unless you want to shoot bullets lighter than 85 grains, the 260 is a better bet. IMR 4064 will propel the sierra 85 gr .264 to 3500 fps safely in a 24 inch bbl, and the 95 gr V-max to 3360 fps.