I received my first 18 inch 416 B&M this past week and did some tests with it yesterday.

When I started the B&M series--50 B&M-458 B&M and 416 B&M I decided that 18 inch barrels for the .500 caliber--20 inch barrels for the 458 and 416.
These are all Win M70 WSM actions--the B&M case is a cut down Ultra case to 2.25 inches. Guns come in at 6.5-8 lbs depending on the stock.

About a year or so ago I decided that a 18 inch light, 458 B&M would be nice. I did so and lost only 10-15 fps per inch of barrel. Hardly even noticeable! I can still shoot 500 gr bullets at 2150 fps and 450s over 2200 fps in the 18 inch barrel.

I had my doubts about the 416 however, still felt it needed 20 inches to be at optimum. I was pretty much correct to a point. I have only tested about 7 of my normal loads in 416 B&M and 5 of them showed a loss of velocity from 30 to 50 fps per inch. About what I figured. However with a couple of loads there showed nearly no loss of velocity at all. One was the 340 Woodleigh, in 20 inches it does around 2450 fps depending on individual barrel--in the 18 inch gun it still is at 2440 fps. A 400 gr Hornady load that does 2320 fps in a 20 inch gun comes to 2305 in the 18 inch gun, no noted loss there.

Overall however great success with my 18 inch tube, which is very very handy. With the 350 Barnes X and 350 Swift they come in at 2350 fps along with the 350 Barnes Solid and a 300 Barnes X comes in at just a touch under 2600 fps. This from a rifle that is 38.5 inches overall length and weighs 6.5 lbs! Damn handy, fast, easy to carry and still packs plenty of punch if you need it! I am very pleased with it so far. Of course the 20 inch guns have proved themselves in the field will all sorts of game up to and including cape buffalo. Just this 2 inches less makes a big difference in the way it handles.

Michael

Great news!!
My first 458 AR has a 20 incher.. and its pretty handy too!! 18" bigbore? you sure tom isn't designing your rounds

Jeffe

No I did not know Tom until just recently! So the B&Ms were before Tom for sure!

Hey how did the hunt go this weekend? I think you were hunting right?

The first 50s all had 18 inch barrels--then I had to try one with a 20 inch barrel and it bought me zero. I have a Win 1885 in 50 with a 24 inch barrel and it starts to pick up some. The 458 surprised me with a 18 inch barrel, lost nothing to speak of. The 416 does start to loose at 18 inches with most loads, and that is what I figured it would do. Still gotta have bore volume to burn the powder in. But still as good as it is I will take the loss. Like I said I think I can get by with 400s at 2250--350s at 2350 and 300s at 2600! It's one of those WIn M70 Ultimates with the camo stock. 6.5 lbs, stainless, 38.5 inches overall. The little 458 is the same, only the black ultimate stock.

I noticed the other day you mentioned how the 416 AR is starting to grow on you! I know the feeling the little 416 is starting to grow on me too. Recoil is not bad at all, rather mild in fact. It would be a perfect gun for Alaska!

Michael

Jeffe

I forgot, you might have told me this, but how far did you have Pete go on the AR brass? All I had him do is head stamp and turn down the rim on the basic brass he had. I did the cutting and forming here. Which the forming is nothing, just run all of mine in the size die, 458 B&M-416 B&M and the 500 MDM once they had been cut and trimmed to length. I have not formed but a few of them for my own use, and I figure if anyone wants any I can quickly form it for them, other than that most of mine are cut and ready, but will remain that way. Of course the 50 is ready to go.

Michael

Very cool Michael! Glad to see the 18" worked out, making it handy with no downsides as far as velocity. Very cool

When are you gonna do another super short? There is a wssm CRF on the used rack locally thats been calling my name

Milehigh

Where have you been? It seems awhile since I heard from you!

Hey the little 416 is just as good as it's bigger brothers in an 18 inch gun. I did start to loose some velocity more so than the 458 and 50 however. I suspected this would be the case when bore diameter starts to go down. But still it is more than enough to do anything I want to do with a 416 caliber. You really have to get your hands on it to know what I am talking about. Even in photos you can't get really how good these guns handle and feel.

Super Short? I had several drawn and ready right after the 50 Super Short. At the top of the list was the 458 Super Short. But many things considered--most important the bullets available. A 458 Super Short would be fine with various 300-350 gr bullets, but that would be about the extent of it. So it would be somewhat limited, and even some of the 350s would be a little tough for the velocity that a super short can churn up. Next would be a 452 and utilize the a wide variety of those bullets, but many would be too fragile for it-but a good many would be ok. I think you should do a 411 on the super short-probably do fine, but not sure of all the bullets available myself. If you were to decide something like that I will be happy to give you a hand. There is no doubt that between you, me and Brian at SSK we can make that happen with little or no hassle. We have done it too many times for there to be an issue.

For me I am waiting on the 9.3 B&M reamer from Dave! I have a gun picked out ready to go. Win M70 WSM (of course) stainless and already has a Accurate Innovations AA Claro stock on it--I will also fit a Ultimate stock to it too. I am going with a 20 inch barrel and I think that should do fine. I also think this will be the last of the B&M cartridges. One could do various other larger calibers, but I have little interest in some of these. Probably should add a 475 to the family some day, but who knows.

One of the great things about this is if there are not suitable bullets--in some cases like my .500s--then we have the resources to design and make what we need for it. Big fun! I am going to do some new .500 bullets later this year for the super short and the 500 MDM.

Michael

I've been lurking Its been busy getting ready for the upcoming season with the new company...trying to find a new office location, figuring out strategy, territories, trucks, chem suppliers...and we haven't even begun to look for techs yet *doh!*

The 411 SSM is still in the back of my mind, just wonder if the majority of bullets are going to be too long for that little action. Hopefully that rifle hangs around another week or two so I can put it on layaway (doubt it'll sell lol) I would've put it down by now, but I came across a Stevens 200 SA for 200$, and I couldn't pass that one up, I've been wanting one to start my p-dog rig for a while now (yes, it'll be a wildcat haha)

470 Would possibly be neat, utilizing 480 Ruger bullets....but after reading a recent article about the Turnbull 47 cats, I'm sticking with my idea of doing a full sized WSM case or B&M case with the .474" bullets. Turnbull is having Barnes make some shorter bullets vs standard 470 NE length stuff. Its SCREAMING to be put in a short action mag hehe.

not to tread on Michael's thread..
I just posted load data on some of Doug's bullets on the 470 AR, over on ammo guide. SMOKING at about 2600, with the 350s, without even trying hard. I think it can go 2800, with some more reloading, as i has plenty of "room" left.

I might just have to do the AB barrel and hacksaw routine on the 458 and 416 AR, just to find out... sounds like a job for this summertime

Jeffe

You could never tread unwanted on any thread of mine or one I am on--You are always welcome in my camp regardless!!!!!!

milehigh brings a good point now with the 475 B&M--I have had it in the books from day one or two. But the issue was available bullets-most being in the 500 gr range a few years ago. Although a B&M case and 18 inch barrel can get 2100 with a 500 gr in 475---I would have liked to have a larger variety in which to work with, and I don't care much for many of the 500s out there in 475--most of mine are actually .4725! Which has caused me some issues with the 2 Capsticks I have. Now with Dougs bullets, and the fact that I have a avenue in which to design and cnc my own, like with the 50s, then the 475 B&M looks a lot better. Probably not good enough for me to go jump on one real soon, but much better and a viable option. As for the 350 gr bullet the B&M would be able to top out at 2500 or a bit better with 18 inch barrel. Still more than plenty.

Milehigh if you take a notion for a 475 B&M I will be more than happy to get you started in the right direction!

Jeffe take the hacksaw out and start cutting. I think with the 458s and larger with the AR cases you will be fine down at 20 and 18. I think you might start losing at 18 with the 416 like I did with the B&M---but Jeffe even still whatever you get will be more than enough to complete any mission at all with 416 or the others--you can just do it with shorter and handier, and lighter! Exact same 416 B&M with 18 inch barrel is 1/2 lb lighter overall! Only difference is 2 inches of barrel! Yep, hacksaw time!!!!

Michael

Great point on Doug's custom TSX bullets...they don't cost anymore to order from him then regular off the shelf TSX's! Also throw in cast, or .474 pistol bullets like the Speer Gold Dot and Hawk bullets for milder loads. All in all a great idea IMO. I have just been waiting for a good M70 to pop up on the used shelves

i shoot the .475 speer gold dots at OBSCENE velocities..

these are a weird bullet.. hard cast, THEN plated a mile thick.

I just received my 20 sets of dies from Hornady yesterday. 5 each of 50 B&M Long--50 B&M Super Short--416 B&M--and 458 B&M. RCBS had been making all these but a little pricey at $285.00 per set regardless thereof. I had Hornady do the 500 MDM 1 set at $180. And SSK has been using Hornady for the last few years for all their dies. So I decided to give Hornady a go for the B&M dies as well. They said at the time that 5 sets each would give us a pretty good price break-so I said fine 5 each it is! Well the price was great and they come in at $68 per set!!! I was amazed! Now since then they changed the rules a bit--$300 set up fee whether it is 1 or 20 sets of dies--then 10 sets to get the good price. At any rate now they have all the B&M series and the MDM so prices should be reasonable even with just 1 set at a time. I am not sure what I am going to do with the 9.3 B&M yet-have already talked to Stan at RCBS. Flat fee of $285.00. If the 9.3 looks good then I might get Hornady too, just have not decided yet on that one.

Jeffe

Is this what you are seeing with Hornady too??

Michael

Michael,
I don't remember the setup fee, but I could be wrong .. i think i got knocked off track when I was doing my 550 flanged stuff, and got confused!

anyway, Good on ya! Its EXCELLENT to have stuff headstamped and a maker's name on the die box!

Might have to get me one of them B&Ms

Jeffe

Last fall when I ordered the dies there was no setup fee, just get at least 5 sets each and get a good price. Recently Brian at SSK had talked to them and the rules have changed now as they told him. If it is not in the system already--such as my 9.3 B&M coming up (have reamer-sending rifle Monday) then it is an initial $300 set up fee and order 10 sets of dies to get the good price. After the initial $300 setup fee that is it, you never pay that again whether you order 1 set or a 100. It is still a good deal for us as we can get a damn good price on some dies. RCBS-and I love them too, but it is $285 a set buy 1 or a 100 does not matter. I am going to have Stan do the set for the 9.3 B&M since at first I don't need but one set. Later if the 9.3 starts to catch on, then maybe I have Hornady do them too.

Yes it is excellent to see your cartridges with proper headstamps and on the die box. My first 50 B&M was quite a thrill to me. WOW!


Milehigh

I happen to know the guy who knows the guy that can sort you out with a B&M of your choice!! Heh!

Michael

Aint Hornady teh coolest company EVER?

You better believe it Jeffe! I love the dies. I have had RCBS do all my dies with the exception of the 500 MDM, and now Hornady is getting all my business from now on.