I have a Hodgdon manual that shows the .30-284 to be identical in loads for the .30-06....or in other words the .30-06=.30-284.

Does it then follow that the .35-284 = the .35 whelen.....or in other words.....can the .35 whelen performance be attained in a SA Remington chambered for the .35-284?.....

This has the potential to be a simple rebarrel of any SA remington!........or a beltless .350 Rem Mag!

BTW.....I have no interest in bullets over 225 grains!

Winchester/Olin 284 brass that has been necked up and fire-formed to 35-284 will hold around 68 grains of H2O when filled to the top of the neck. The 35 Whelen runs about 2 grain more.

I had a Savage 99C in 35-284 and didn't care for it because of the limited bullets that would cycle through the short magazine. I think that you'd be likely to have the same issues in a SA 700, unless you installed a Wyatt's extended magazine box.

FWIW, somebody told me that GI Pawn has a 35-284 finish reamer. I'd offer you the use of my finish reamer, but I sold all of my 35-284 stuff; finish reamer, dies, brass, ammo, and Savage 99 barrel to a guy in PA awhile back.

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:
Winchester/Olin 284 brass that has been necked up and fire-formed to 35-284 will hold around 68 grains of H2O when filled to the top of the neck. The 35 Whelen runs about 2 grain more.

Thanks....that's good information!

I had a Savage 99C in 35-284 and didn't care for it because of the limited bullets that would cycle through the short magazine. I think that you'd be likely to have the same issues in a SA 700, unless you installed a Wyatt's extended magazine box.

This is why I stated that 225 grains was the most bullet I wanted to shoot.....It's totally adequate for any big game I'm looking at!

FWIW, somebody told me that GI Pawn has a 35-284 finish reamer.
Thanks again....I've done quite a bit of business with them when I lived in GI.....good folks!


I'd offer you the use of my finish reamer, but I sold all of my 35-284 stuff; finish reamer, dies, brass, ammo, and Savage 99 barrel to a guy in PA awhile back.

Out of curiosity.....did you neck up in three stages?....and anneal?

Thanks again.....good informative post!

i still have one built on a s/a left handed remington. never worked with bullets over 225 grains. it feeds well and is plenty accurate. longest deer kill to date has been at 274 lasered yards with the sierra bullet.
i start with fresh winchester brass and neck up using imperial sizing wax to .30,then .33 the .35. i have never had to anneal.

quote:

Originally posted by max(hm2):
i still have one built on a s/a left handed remington. never worked with bullets over 225 grains. it feeds well and is plenty accurate. longest deer kill to date has been at 274 lasered yards with the sierra bullet.
i start with fresh winchester brass and neck up using imperial sizing wax to .30,then .33 the .35. i have never had to anneal.

Did you chrony any loads?....I'd be quite curious what velocities you achieved.

The 35/284 is about 2grs smaller in gross capacity. However loaded to normal OAL with a 225Part the difference is only about .5grs less for the 35/284. However with the bullet is only in the case about .25" for the 35/284.

I have done quite a few of the 338/284s and, as that is only about .020 different, I would say [?] as long as you stick to the 225 or less you`ll be fine. You just might find some neat comparisons between the 35/284 and the 358 Norma. My 336/284 keeps up pretty well with the larger Mag case until you get into the 275gr bullets and with a shorter barrel to boot!
Aloha, Mark
PS! I initially opted for the 338 over the 35 as, back in the 70s bulet selection for thw 35s was crappy.

I show the 358 Norma to have around 28% higher net capacity than the 35/284. Equal pressure, same bullet and barrel length the Norma will be a couple 100fps higher. I didn't play that much with my 350PDK which had about 11% more capacity than a 35/284 but it couldn't match my 358Norma even with a couple extra inches of barrel. Granted I did more work with the 250 than 225.

A 35/284 would be no more a 358Norma than an 284 is a 7mag. I think it might be a good wildcat and what you shoot with it probably wouldn't notice the FPS difference but it would always give up FPS to the Norma

quote:

A 35/284 would be no more a 358Norma than an 284 is a 7mag.

It should be intuitively obvious that this is true.

The only reason I don't aspire to a .358 Norma is it's recoil.....I'd go to the .375 H&H first if I wanted to pay that price!

Yes, I formed the 35-284 cases from 284 Winchester/Olin brass in steps, using Imperial Wax. It was all new brass, so I didn't feel a need to anneal them and don't recall having any neck cracks, but did a have a few, maybe 3%, that got shoulder cracks.

After doing the 35-284, I did a 338-284 on the same Savage 99C action and like that cartridge with the 210 grain Partition. After having done several 284 based wildcats, I decided that the 25-284 and 338-284 worked the best for me, in a Savage 99 platform, and they are the 284 based wildcats that I shoot the most, although I still have 3 6.5-284s.

Jeff

quote:

I decided that the 25-284 and 338-284 worked the best for me,

Interesting.....I have a SA Rem 700 and a Rem 600.....I like them both and enjoy hunting with them.....I'm wanting them to be a bit more than they are.....a .243 and a .308....

The .338-284 is very much a possibility and when I review bullets available I see a lot of very inviting Barnes bullets in the .338 caliber. Ad them to the accubonds and partitions and the .338-284 seems almost to be a better choice due to versatility.

Vapo, I have a 375/284 on a mex mauser. I do seat the bullets out though with the longer mag length so gain a little capacity over a SA. It is a 375 not a 35, but runs whelen velocities with ease so would think a 35 would have to be close enough no critter could tell the differance. My dies are C&H with a tapered expander and forms 284 to 375 in one pass, no annealing.

If you use cream of wheat and a fast burning shotgun or pistol powder you can fireform in one shot and not go through the brass hardening stretching of the stepwise forming up. Or a tapered expander will work also.

There is nothing wrong with the 35/384, it is an excellent cartridge, but in todays world I would go with the WSM case for a SA wildcat. You can load it up close to Magnum ballistics or down to 35 Rem. I had the 375/284 on my list of todo's until the WSM's came out, then that 284 based wildcat list went out the window.

Luck

Back in the day, I could hardly pass a Remington 700 Classic in 250-3000 without being tempted to rechamber it to 25-284. My current 25-284s are Remingtons with recycled 250-3000 and 257 Roberts barrels and a Savage 99C with a recycled 250-3000 barrel. Nothing wrong with a 25-284, but it really isn't all that much faster than the 25 Souper or 257 Roberts and the shorter case 51mm 25 Souper fits into a SA with all bullet weights better (IMO) then the 55mm 25-284 or 57mm 257 Roberts.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:
There is nothing wrong with the 35/384, it is an excellent cartridge, but in todays world I would go with the WSM case for a SA wildcat.

Luck

I think I just got some more good advice!!!!
Thank you

vapodog; this thread being a few months old might mean that your interest has waned in a .35/284 but if it has not...

I built one a while back and have now taken a fair selection of Aussie game with it. Rabbits, Dingoes, Goats, Deer, Pigs, Cattle and Buff. I use 200gn Hornady interlocks or 200gn Remington corelokts for everything except the Buff and it has performed very very well.

The 200gn loads chrono @ 2800fps, 225's @ 2650fps and the 280gn A-frame works @ 2280fps. Water capacity of my cases is 69.6gn (Lapua 6.5-284 brass), and it trims to 2.130". I pulled them up in a few steps - .284, .308, .338, .358.

Mine is on a mid (7x57) length action so I have room for whatever projectile I want however with the exception of the 225 Barnes you should be able to seat most 200-225gn pills under 2.85".

The 200gn Hornady SP interlock seated to the crimp groove measures 2.780 and the 225gn Woodleigh PP is 2.85" neat. From memory that is approx the magazine limit in a short action Remington? A Ruger may be better to build on... 2.9" mag box there? It's nothing more than a Whelan in a short action, and is effectively limited by the mag length to projectiles no heavier than 225gn; otherwise you lose too much case capacity seating the long projectiles in deep.

But effective - oh yes .

I have owned a 35 whelen and it was shot about 5/8 of and inch and was fun to shoot, but as you noted, the .338's give so many more bullet options and a little better trajectories and range.

quote:

a Wyatt's extended magazine box.

I fitted one to my Rem 700 SA in 260 AI. The Wyatt box gives you another .100 length. Worth it in my opinion.

I'll throw in my 2 cents.

338/284 is the biggest I have done, but I have done several 6mm/284. It seems to me that going up is easier than going down, and anything with a tapered expander will help.

I do know that cracking is a problem with WW brass, and annealing is required. I didn't notice this when I first started making cases, but loaded ammo which had sat for a year would suddenly have spits without firing. My personal with any wildcat is that hardening is not dependent on the number of steps but how far you go and the original temper. I have had trouble with Bertram brass in the original sizing to get the brass ready to load initially.

Should mention too that I don't really like any of the 284 wildcats in an SA Remmy. Done that twice, and even in 6mm, you are really constricted on magazine space.

I have not had any trouble with cases cracking in the 6.5-284 Lapua Brass. I'd like to claim that this was the reason I chose it but in truth the Lap brass is easily available here and the .284Win brass as scarce as hen's teeth.

The tapered expanders are a big help.

An extended mag box would be ideal. 2.95" would give you the use of all the conventional 250gn projectiles without compromising your powder capacity.

quote:

Originally posted by Art S.:
I'll throw in my 2 cents.

338/284 is the biggest I have done, but I have done several 6mm/284. It seems to me that going up is easier than going down, and anything with a tapered expander will help.

I do know that cracking is a problem with WW brass, and annealing is required. I didn't notice this when I first started making cases, but loaded ammo which had sat for a year would suddenly have spits without firing. My personal with any wildcat is that hardening is not dependent on the number of steps but how far you go and the original temper. I have had trouble with Bertram brass in the original sizing to get the brass ready to load initially.

Should mention too that I don't really like any of the 284 wildcats in an SA Remmy. Done that twice, and even in 6mm, you are really constricted on magazine space.

It is very easy to anneal the brass before they are run over the mandrel and that will eliminate 95% of all splits. Use a smooth tapered mandrel and Imperial wax. Anealing again after every third firing will make the brass last a long time as long as the primer pockets hold up.

The splits I encountered were long after the case forming, either from firing or simply sitting in storage. I generally anneal after forming the cases of wildcats so that the brass is in a proper state for service. I have had particular problems when preannealing cases with steep shoulder angles due to the case being so soft it collapses when trying to expand or nec down the case.

If you use one of the FN manufactured Model 70 actions or the FN SPR action, put in the WSM mag box and follower. It feeds the 284 rounds very well and increases your mag length to 3.050" I have a 25-284 and a standard 284 win on that platform and they make great hunting rifles. Still thinking on a 338-284 as that would complete the 'battery'.

35-284 CASE CAPACITY ~67 gr H2O.
35 WHELEN CASE CAPACITY ~ 70 gr H2O.

Depending on brand and how accurate you, your scale and your filling uniformity is concerned.

Effectiveness on game...no difference.

AS far as velocity etc...they BOTH fall within the same standard deviation.

The effects of bullet seating on case capacity probably give the Whelen a bit more advantage unless the 35-284 is built on a long action and the bullet seated out to give both the same internal volume then there is NO difference.

Barrel length, bore tightness, how you hold you mouth, where the moon is, how much coffee you had for breakfast etc., all factor in as they do with ALL shooters.

You're basically comparing apples to apples at least...Grany Smith greens to delicious reds...I like them both depending on how my hair is parted...and I'm bald.

Luck

There's been a custom Ruger on Gun Broker for some time, chambered for the 350-284. Looks like a nice built....$895 is I remember correctly, with ammo and loading equipment. But I've got 2 Whelens and a 9.3x62, so I'm pretty well covered in that range.

I may have missed something here....but would there be anything terribly wrong with just going to a 350 Rem Mag? Open the bolt face, Wyatt's extra long box so you wouldn't be hindered and a bit of feed word. You are going to need extra work to get the .284 case to feed right anyways, why not go with Remingtons answer to your exact question?

But if you really want to have fun lol go over to Big Bores and check out Michael458's B&M series on cut down (basically wsm)RUM brass.

If the 35 is something you want to stick with, also look up the 35 Sambar/358 WSM. Many articles around. Also, the member here who goes by "Con" from Australia, was working on a 35/338RCM. He also has many great articles about WSM wildcatting that will confuse you even more and make the choice that much harder.

After all, that is why we are all here right? If we made things easy, we'd be in a different board

I put a 35/284 barrel on a Ruger S/A 35 yr. ago. Still have it. Brown Precision stock,cut weight everywhere we could, 6 lb. 2 oz. empty.
Despite being limited by bullets useable,(We use Barnes 225) it's a winner. Shot lots of moose, all my grandkids have shot something with it. I use a 35/404 now on a Sako action, weighs 7+ lb. but the increased downrange ballistics make it worthwhile. The horse doesn't mind the extra weight, and I don't seem to walk as far as I used to either. Since the advent of the WSM, I'd prob. go that route, but you won't regret the 35/284 either. Mark

Just saw this thread. I built a .35-284 on a Browning BLR about 15 years ago. Great gun - light, easy handling, hits hard. It's a great short action medium bore with plenty of power but easy to shoot. I'd say it's power is about equal a .35 Whelen; maybe like a 9.3x57 but that's splitting hairs. I've really enjoyed it but decided to sell it as I'm moving on to other gun projects. This one was a success.

I played with the 30/284 and the 338/284 both in 99 Savages, and they came very close to the 30-06 and the 338/06. In a bolt action gun they would have duplicated the 30-06 and 338/06 with ease..So I am sure the 35/285 is just a 35 Whelen in a different pair of boots..