I’m interested in the origin of short action magnum cartridges(rimless or slightly rebated).

Until now I have no proved data about the very first design of a cartridge for short bolt actions based on the 404Jeffery/348Win or larger cases with a COL of ~2.8in(~72mm).

The WSMs, SAUMs and WSSMs started their career in this millennium.

Rick Jamison’s designs were published in 1997. The Lazzaroni line seems to be first built in the mid ‘90s, too.
In Ken Howell’s thick book a 7x53 NS is pictured. Does anyone know more about it?

In the late ‘90s there was a firm named HEAVY EXPRESS INC. which sold rifles for cartridges of their own(?) design ranging from .260 to .416 bearing the name HE MAG. The cases were described as being based on the 348Win the rim turned down to .532 plus a bold 40° shoulder angle intended for short rifle actions. I’ve never read anything more about them. Can someone help with some additional information?

Thanks in advance!

Heiner

What you need is a copy of the shooters "Bible"
By this I am referring to "Cartidges of the World" by Frank C Barnes, published by Krause Publications. www.krause.com.
The latest would be the 10th edition.
Malcolm

HunterJim has some experience with the Heavy Express cartridges.....but I don't think any of them came near the Lazzeroni short mags performance levels.

the 284 winchester is the first "short fat beltless mag" ,,, while not as "improved" as the later shortmages, it's the first.. identical base case as the jamison (404), and overly rebated

the laz, HE, and jamison stuff where developed about the same time as each other

jeffe

A man by the name of Payne residing IIRC in Las Vegas a while ago, turned the rims off of 348 brass then necked it down to 7mm. The only differance between it and Winchesters 7mm WSM is Payne's had a ventrified shoulder.

A finnish man created a 7mm and a ,30i * 57mm cartridge, based on a 338 lapua m case about 1990. Designed for the same bore/powder capasity as 6mm Br.

Kimmo

I'm not exactly sure what the question is, but how about the Newton cartridges from 1913? And the 50-115 Bullard from 1886 is probably the first semi-rimmed or rebated rimmed cartridge? You'd have to call it a magnum by anyone's definition. 400 Whelen from the 1920s? The big Mauser cartridges from the early 1900s? The Schuler cartridges? Need more? Or am I off base here?

Ray

I agree with Cheechako...Chas Newton came out with great short magnum cartidges back in about 1914..nowdays...Jamison Brass is going to make .256 Newton, .30 Newton & .35 Newton Brass anew. You
would be interested in the .30 Newton & .35 Newton
cartridges. My .30 Newton will outshoot my .300 Weatherby in a .30-06 length case, but a lot "fatter". The factory load of the .35 Newton was a 250 gr. bullet at 2975 fps. Unbelted, short, fat
cases with little body taper...very modern.
Best Regards,
Tom

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the 284 winchester is the first "short fat beltless mag" ,,, while not as "improved" as the later shortmages, it's the first.. identical base case as the jamison (404), and overly rebated
jeffe

¿¡Come again!?
I'd say the 284 was the first to be designed around the "short mag" specifications, but it wasn't related to the 404 in any way.
Maybe the 38/56 or 45/70 Gov't "rimless" or a shortened 6.3x64mm case.

Heiner,

Jim Busha developed two lines of HE Mag cartridges: the Heavy Exporess Magnum (HE MAG) and teh Heavy Express Short-Action M agnum (HE SAM). Both lines were based on the .348 Win case with the rim turned off. The difference between the lines was mailnly cartridge length; they were short and shorter.

I borrowed his .450 HE SAM. That is a 2.060" case with 46 degree shoulder. His .460 HE MAG was on the 2.25" case length also with 46 degree shoulder. I was looking for a "minimum .450 bore size rifle", which the .450 definitely was (it would reach 2,100 fps with the 500 gr Hornady bullets).

I have a copy of his reloading manual for the cartridges, and 10 or so of the .450 and 460 cases.

Jim told me his business vanished when Winchester introduced the .300 WSM, so he went out of business except for building custom rifles.

According to PO Ackley's Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders the 7 mm Express was originated by gunsmith Roy Gradle "...making externsive changes on the .348 Winchester case". Ralph Payne made rifles for this cartridge.

jim

quote:

Originally posted by HunterJim:
According to PO Ackley's Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders the 7 mm Express was originated by gunsmith Roy Gradle "...making externsive changes on the .348 Winchester case". Ralph Payne made rifles for this cartridge.

jim

Thank you sir! I wasn't sure if he originated but I knew of his involvment.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:

¿¡Come again!?
I'd say the 284 was the first to be designed around the "short mag" specifications, but it wasn't related to the 404 in any way.
Maybe the 38/56 or 45/70 Gov't "rimless" or a shortened 6.3x64mm case.

you are right... i was confused with rick jamison's articles talking about the 284, then making his cases off the 404

Gentlemen,

Thank you so far.

The modern commercial short fat magnums can be briefly defined as scaled up 6mmPPCs with a maximum overall length of about 2.8inches or as rimless cartridges with large base dimensions having a powder column(body length) of a certain diameter to length ratio.

Assuming there was also a rimless version and as long as someone does not prove something else I declare Roy Gradle to be the first who has materialized the short fat magnum idea.

Heiner

www.wildem.de