40-65---4.4 cc, 68.52 gr H2O

405 --- 4.98cc, 76.89 gr H2O

I took your drawing numbers, guessed the shoulder dia at 0.471" from your 30° shoulder description...and trig'ed/guessed the rest...

COAL 2.56"
Neck length O.497"
1.613" base to neck base
1.553" to shoulder point
Shoulder OD 0.471"
Base OD 0.486"
Wall thickness T2-0.016", just below shoulder
Wall thickness T1-0.033", at 0.200" from base.

I re-ran the numbers for wall T2-0.015" and T1 0.031" from the Russian cartridge and lost volume down to 69gr H20.

Give me all the final numbers to run and I will post what LD comes up with.

Really doesn't matter all that much as the only way to get a true measurement is to fireform a few cases then weigh and average them...I don't think I've ever found LD H2O numbers matched exactly what I came up with when actually measuring a case volume...the volume depends on brands and who knows what brand was used for developing the LD data.

Net case volume is more of a concern as that is the gas/powder volume space that tells the story, and that depends more on the bullet length and seating depth.

0.411-12" bullets will be long for their weight and have a nice high BC compared to 44 or 45 cal so I would try for a longer COAL...2.62" and longer if possible.

I'm still looking at a 416 cal using a RCM, belted mag or shortened Ruger case to get max case volume and have several designs saved with a case volume ~85gr H20...the only problem is the 416 bullet lengths at 350 and 400 gr...they are so long and with the Marlin max COAL the bullets need to be seated so deep the net case volume isn't much more than a 444/45-70 with a 300/400 gr bullet.

This is an excellent case of diminishing returns when dealing with the different variables.

It is really hard to beat the 444M, 450M and 45-70 in the Marlin and the receiver and COAL limits really put the kibosh on the amount of "fiddling" you can actually do to gain velocity or energy. The WSM and 348 cases at ~35KCUP with a large heavy bullet are just about maxed out for the Marlin platform.

40-65 Win ~69.6 gr, 40-70 Win ~80gr, 40-70 Sharps bottleneck ~82gr...and all those can be blown out a bit for more capacity.

Lots of potential with those oldies if you can find the cases.

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:
Lots of potential with those oldies if you can find the cases.

Therefore, we have the 7.62x54R case.

Remember, my goal is not to come up with something that is stretched to the hilt, blown out to the max, stuffed to the gills with powder, and generates the maximum velocity theoretically possible. I have had my teeth rattled enough by hot .45-70 rounds out of the light Marlin rifles to cure me of that desire. I am going with the .411 bore by choice and a 300gr bullet at 2150fps would be nice but 2000fps would be just as nice. No matter how fast it shoots, it still won't make the Marlin into a bean field rifle. No matter how slow it shoots, it still will be more than enough to down anything in my neck of the woods.

Absolutely...I understand.

I treat all the wildcatd's I've done and the rifles as a "system", not just a cartridge/bullet combination...Lord knows there are plenty of "standards" available to do most jobs 10 times over.

My goal is to "maximize the potential"...that doesn't mean getting the maximum velocity etc, I balance velocity, bullet weight, rifle weight and type, case fit, desired use, component availability now and future wise and so forth...maybe "optimize the parameters potentials" would be a better phrase...and I develope each wildcat for a specific purpose with a specific platform...I'me WAY past all that "magnumitis" stuff. I enjoy the "Journey of Discovery" as much as the final destination.

Whatever the software comes up with is more or less just a rough guess to start the ball rolling. You won't know the actual velocities until you start load development...the rifle will tell you all about it.

The 405 Grenadier is YOUR baby, YOUR developement...for YOUR purposes and pleasures...what anyone else thinks doesn't matter in the least.

Keep us posted

The 400 Marlin looks very sweet.
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/...n/400-marlin-wildcat

Nice article too.

That's a nice one too. Lots of potential. Wildcats are more personal, I think, than just any old shooter and few get the press they should except on the internet and maybe in a gun mag now and then.

This is the "Golden Age of Wildcatting"... Price wise when I was worth something, a reamer and set of dies was less than a days pay...WAY back in the day, some of those reamers alone cost me 2-3 WEEKS pay...probably the reason I cook my own meals now, hahahahaha, Guns and motors, ANY kind.!!!!!

I'm not the only one who has fiddled the 450 M case...I have designs for 35, 9.3, 375 and 416, but left out the 40 and 44 cals...along with the same cals for belted mag cases from 2" to 2.35" all for use in the Marlin. When I win the Lotto I will do a few barrels just for "kicks"...hahahahahaa.

I get more kicks out of the design and building of a wildcat than the actual shooting end. Once I use one a couple times on game I get bored with it and want to do something else...something "different", something not many have.


Keeps me out of bars and away from pool tables.

Luck

If the bore was bad from the factory send it back to Marlin. They will replace it.

I truly love wildcatting but once we're past the .375X41 the rest of the big bore in the lower 48 is just fluff and stuff; revered but not really needed. roger

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
If the bore was bad from the factory send it back to Marlin. They will replace it.

I bought it third hand as "new, never fired". It came with a cracked forearm and a washed out bore. I know the micro-groove rifling and this was not micro-groove. It has 6-groove rifling that is nearly gone. The bore was shot out, abused, or the rifle somehow came that way from the factory. I suspect it was a combination of hot loads and someone going crazy with "lapping". The guy I bought it from claimed ignorance. He has a good reputation so ignorance is plausible. In any event, I was refunded an ample amount of the purchase price and basically paid for the action. I figured, since I have to rebarrel anyway, to try a wildcat I had pondered on a long time.

I finally got the reamer and it's going off with the rifle tomorrow to get barreled and chambered. The original rifle has an 18" barrel but I am ordering a 22" .405 barrel. We'll see how this works out.

The project proceeded with great results.

THE FULL WRITE-UP IS HERE: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6521043/m/3401049761

What a great cartridge for elk and moose at reasonable distances.