I haven't reloaded in 20 years. Just finished my reloading shop and have obtained all the components (yes even primers). I have formed 30 & 357 herrett cases in the past without problems. I am nowing TRYING to form 25 Bullberry cases without much success. I am using new 30/30 nickel plated brass (new Remington) and Hornady sizing wax.I wanted to use nickel cases for easy identification. (Have 7/30 Waters imp and am planning a 30/30AI also) Even running them through a 7/30 waters die before the 25 BB die. Cases are collapsing more than resizing. HELP!!!! Is it as simple as switching to brass cases or am I doing something wrong.Any input will be appreciated.
Notice the dents in the brass case. The brass cases are not new. The plated cases are. Also is one brand of cases easier to form ?



thanks
Doug

"riveting" or "buttoning" .. switch to brass cases
good luck

Looks like a job for Butch's bushings to me! roger

The smaller diameter you go to the smaller the step. I took 404 Jeff cases down to 270-300Rum in 5 steps (404-375-338-308-284-270), but I know that to take it down to 25 cal it would have take at least 2 more steps. The step from 284 to 270 isn't really necessary, but was usefully, so that I could turn the necks before sizing down to 270.

I would suggest that you add one intermediate step, say from 7mm to 6.5mm then down to .257 cal. It wouldn't hurt to aneal the necks before hand either.

Winchester cases usually weigh less than other brands, so they are also thin-walled.

I would anneal the brass necks only.

I would not try down sizing those nickel cases...the plating makes them very hard.

No experience using hornady sizing wax, only Imperial. But then I only size down .020"....358" down to .338"

Doug! If you send me your E-Mail address I'll send you photos of resizing that can be done with bushings.All the photos were of cases that were not annealed from the very first time they were fired. roger

I have a couple of suggestions.

1. Size in the original sizer .30-30 as you are doing. A short fat 30 such as the 7.62X39 might work even better if the Bullberry shoulder is further back than the .30-30 shoulder.
2. Size in the standard 7mm Waters (but avoid the sharps shouldered Waters improved die)
3. Use a 6.5 Jap FL sizer to neck down one more step. If you can find a cheap die grind it off to the right shoulder length.
4. Use the final .25 Bullberry die just to size the neck one small step and finish the last few thousandths of shoulder placement.

When I have a lot of problem I use a light front wheel bearing grease. The stuff is messy but it will actually reduce the friction so much that a case will push back out of a die without having to pull on it.

While the nickle sounds like a good idea nickle creates a lot more friction in the die and on the expander buttons. Once you have worn out the nickle cases I would not buy any more of them.
If you can use them as .30-30 without forming them I would stick with unplated cases for forming operations. The nickle is not as elastic as brass.

Definitely needs intermediate sizing. Nickel should work but remember it is much harder; you'll begin to have neck splits very early with it. The dents are usually formed by too much lube. But I think (based on a problem I have with my 505 Gibbs) that you can have air trapped between the neck and body that compresses during sizing and can dent the case, too.

I have heard that using plain ole green dishwashing liquid as lube can work well in situations like this . I havent tried it myself tho...

The guys suggestion necking down in small stages are right on the button - a set of Butchs dies would work well here.

That's kind of interesting as I take 303British to 303/25 in two steps. Gently into a 270Win FL die (with expander removed) then into the 303/25 FL die. Never had an issue like what you've had.
Cheers...
Con

I've played around with a lot of wildcats and necking up/down throughout my reloading life. You've received a lot of good info above, including using additional steps in the necking down. One thing I can recommend, though, use Imperial Sizing lube rather than the Hornady. It really does seem to work better when I have to do the "impossible."

+1 Imperial Sizing Wax. Great stuff!

For bullet sizing nothing beats Corbins.

This is my case forming dies.

This is a 30-06 case as an example.

This is a 458 Lott case shortened to 1.100 and necked to 223.

I have a few sets left and am closing them out $139.99+shipping.
Butch
www.shadetreeea.com

May not be able to top Butch's display but certainly can leave you with a different perspective, and that is using his bushings.Would have to E-Mail as I've never posted pics.If someone will post them I'll e-mail them to you. roger

It is really easy using www.hotchyx.com. Just go to that site, browse your picture into their uploader, you'll get a selection of methods to use. Choose the one for BB code, copy it, and insert it into your post. Then DELETE everything to the left and to the right of what's inside the [IMG] brackets. Like this: [URL]yxyxyxyxyxyxy[URL][IMG]your picture[IMG][URL]zazazazazazaz[URL]. Delete everything that goes with the xy and az stuff. You can put up a picture in about 60 seconds. Requires no account-- just post your shots...