is the 22 CHeetah dead?

27 August 2014, 11:39

I have stumbled into about 400 Rem 308BR cases (new old stock). Kinda thinking about building a CHeetah unless someone has a better idea what to do with them.

Thoughts, suggestions?

Andy

27 August 2014, 12:22

SquirrelNut

I remember Carmichael writing about the Cheetah 30 years ago. It used .308 brass with small rifle primers kneccked down to .22 and was supposed to be pretty accurate. Haven't heard anything about it in many years, I'm guessing it's pretty much died and really didn't have much life to begin with. That's no reason not to build one, though. Hell, if I wanted one I'd build one.

27 August 2014, 14:29

srose

I have a 22-243 Middlestead and it uses standard 243 Win brass with large primer. Great cartridge and works fine with large primers. Never understood why they wanted a small primer in the Cheetah, I think that's why its dead.

27 August 2014, 22:30

drewhenrytnt

quote:
Originally posted by srose:
I have a 22-243 Middlestead and it uses standard 243 Win brass with large primer. Great cartridge and works fine with large primers. Never understood why they wanted a small primer in the Cheetah, I think that's why its dead.

Maybe the right person will read this and explain the necessity of the small primer pocket.

I have heard it has something to do with pressure. Same way the 454Casull uses small rifle primers instead of large pistol primers like the 45Colt.

28 August 2014, 00:27

SquirrelNut

I thought about building one of these years ago. IIRC, in the articles he wrote about it for Outdoor Life they claimed that the benchrest brass with the small rifle primer gave more consistent ignition and greater accuracy but I also remember reading in other articles that it caused hangfires with certain powders. Pressure doesn't really have anything to do with it as rifle primers (small, large, magnum) are all designed to operate at similar pressures. Handgun primers are designed to operate at lower pressures. Dick Casull designed the .454 with a small rifle primer because it operates at higher pressure than most other handgun rounds and uses large charges of slow powders.

29 August 2014, 01:35

DuaneinND

There was problems in cold weather with ignition according to what I have read. The cases would work to make Dasher brass. I build the 22/243 Middlested on a regular basis, it is a favorite with coyote shooters.

29 August 2014, 17:51

ztreh

Someone should call JIM CARMICKEL and get the dope from the horses mouth.

30 August 2014, 01:15

pennfly

I had a couple. Ended up using .243 brass, it was still quite capable of wrecking barrels rapidly.

21 September 2014, 21:54

SR4759

That rare brass might bring $2.00 each an could fund a better project than a .22

22 September 2014, 22:49

NONAGONAGIN

Small BR primers gave more consistent ignition lower SD's and velo ranges and was less prone to pressure excursions on ignition because of the brisance of the primer...BACK IN THOSE DAYS...I think that problem has been worked out in todays world.

The powder was IMR 4320 and below freezing temps.

I've been shooting the22-243 Midd for 40 odd years and gone through I don't know how many barrels. When that article came out I tried it with the BR case...I still have a partial box of 20 cases left...

Even though the cases are slightly different in design I ran into the same problems with small BR primers so I quit using 4320 and went back to LR primer cases...there a several powders that give better results nowadays anyway. and LR primers just work better.

I still use 4320 in my 17 Rem as it gives high velo and the best accuracy with Horn 20 gr.

ANY hotrock can wreck a barrel quickly if you don't follow a few simple rules...KEEP IT COOL and don't keep shooting at case killing pressures.

My latest 22-243 is a rechambered 22-250 Encore, 1-12, 24" t with ~1500 rounds through it. I shoot 62-65 gr bullets at ~65KPSI MAP for ~3650 fs and RL-17 now and keep it for 400+ yard shots. I can rebarrel any number of my receivers for less than replacing an Encore barrel and not have the problems associated with the Encore so I'm being tender with it.

I keep looking at the 22WSSM...now THAT'S a REAL HOTROCK.

Luck

23 September 2014, 03:07

ab_bentley

http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...er-pocket-box-of-100

If you're paying $2/rd you're not looking for brass.

Adam

18 July 2016, 05:29

hdxr750

I have a Reamer I'll rent for Cheap. You pay for shipping both ways, plus say $10.00 and that's it. But you damage it you pay for it. Since I don't check this section often , call me. 304-639-4626, Randy

18 July 2016, 08:24

Idaho Sharpshooter

somewhere I have five boxes of the stuff. IIRC, it is on a shelf next to about the same amount of 30 American brass. Anybody remember that?

18 July 2016, 21:58

Phil Brousseau

Kenny Jarrett told me the small rifle primers didn't work very well in it.

30 July 2016, 12:24

frankinthelaurels

Maybe not dead but on life support !

15 November 2016, 17:11

gwa

I have one and it is a pain to form the brass as I recall. do a 22-243, have 2 of them a lot easier to deal with the brass and performance is the same

16 November 2016, 00:30

Carolina Man

quote:
Hide Post Dont understand why it would be any harder to form then the 22-243, both the same case. Lapua makes 308 brass with small primer pocket that the Palma shooters like to use. Dont hear of any problems with that brass. But Lapua brass would need case necks annelad before forming. But there are two versions of the CHeetah, MK1 one with small primers and a MK11 with the large primers. If remembering correctly that was the only difference. Better powders now so might be worth looking into again.

George

I had a couple. Ended up using .243 brass, it was still quite capable of wrecking barrels rapidly.

Posts: 1642 | Registered: 25 February 2012
SR4759
one of us
posted Sep 21, 12:54 PM Hide Post
That rare brass might bring $2.00 each an could fund a better project than a .22

Posts: 13978 | Location: http://www.tarawaontheweb.org/...a2.jpg | Registered: 03 December 2008
NONAGONAGIN
one of us
posted Sep 22, 1:49 PM Hide Post
Small BR primers gave more consistent ignition lower SD's and velo ranges and was less prone to pressure excursions on ignition because of the brisance of the primer...BACK IN THOSE DAYS...I think that problem has been worked out in todays world.

The powder was IMR 4320 and below freezing temps.

I've been shooting the22-243 Midd for 40 odd years and gone through I don't know how many barrels. When that article came out I tried it with the BR case...I still have a partial box of 20 cases left...

Even though the cases are slightly different in design I ran into the same problems with small BR primers so I quit using 4320 and went back to LR primer cases...there a several powders that give better results nowadays anyway. and LR primers just work better.

I still use 4320 in my 17 Rem as it gives high velo and the best accuracy with Horn 20 gr.

ANY hotrock can wreck a barrel quickly if you don't follow a few simple rules...KEEP IT COOL and don't keep shooting at case killing pressures.

My latest 22-243 is a rechambered 22-250 Encore, 1-12, 24" t with ~1500 rounds through it. I shoot 62-65 gr bullets at ~65KPSI MAP for ~3650 fs and RL-17 now and keep it for 400+ yard shots. I can rebarrel any number of my receivers for less than replacing an Encore barrel and not have the problems associated with the Encore so I'm being tender with it.

I keep looking at the 22WSSM...now THAT'S a REAL HOTROCK.

Luck

Posts: 461 | Registered: 25 January 2014
ab_bentley
one of us

posted Sep 22, 6:07 PM Hide Post
http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...er-pocket-box-of-100

If you're paying $2/rd you're not looking for brass.

Adam

______________________

Ammo, you always need more.

Posts: 462 | Location: Dresden, Ohio | Registered: 09 January 2012
hdxr750
one of us

posted Jul 17, 8:29 PM Hide Post
I have a Reamer I'll rent for Cheap. You pay for shipping both ways, plus say $10.00 and that's it. But you damage it you pay for it. Since I don't check this section often , call me. 304-639-4626, Randy

NRA Life Member
From West Virginia, where the Sun shines in the sky
and the Moon shines in the basement

Posts: 127 | Location: Wheeling, WV | Registered: 03 January 2011
Idaho Sharpshooter
one of us
posted Jul 17, 11:24 PM Hide Post
somewhere I have five boxes of the stuff. IIRC, it is on a shelf next to about the same amount of 30 American brass. Anybody remember that?

Posts: 22711 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005
Phil Brousseau
one of us
posted Jul 18, 12:58 PM

16 November 2016, 09:22

Idaho Sharpshooter

Palma shooters don't compete in cold weather. That was the knock on the original cartridge, the cold.

17 November 2016, 01:29

Carolina Man

That's true Rich, and I don't hunt varmints in the cold. Ground Hogs and PD go to ground in the winter

05 January 2017, 08:42

Atkinson

It never had much acceptance..I only knew one person that owned one and he was rather strange to say the least..As I recall the small primer and hard to make brass killed it, and I suspect the .223 had a hand in putting it down..The .223 killed off a bunch of 22 wildcats, and damn near did a number on the .222 Rem.

06 January 2017, 05:11

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
..As I recall the small primer and hard to make brass killed it, and I suspect the .223 had a hand in putting it down..The .223 killed off a bunch of 22 wildcats, and damn near did a number on the .222 Rem.

wow, i 100% agree with Ray ...

30 April 2017, 20:46

Jgrabow6493

I just found my fathers 22 Cheetah 1 JGS reamer made 5-84. I don't know if it's good or not. If anybody wants it they can have it for shipping cost.

30 April 2017, 22:16

AnotherAZWriter

quote:
Originally posted by ztreh:
Someone should call JIM CARMICKEL and get the dope from the horses mouth.

Or Huntington; the H in CHeetah was due to the fact he and Carmichel jointly developed it.

Personally, I think the laser rangefinder killed it; you don't need 4300 fps with a 53 grain bullet if you know the range. Back then, trajectory was still a bigger deal than the wind.

Reminds me of another wildcat that never took off that Jim wrote about: the .224 Clark, which was designed for 80 grain bullets. A fast .22 shooting 80 grain bullets smokes anything lighter but much faster when it comes to the wind at long range.

But at the end of the day, 90% of all PD shooting is done at 300 yards or less, and the .223 Rem is plenty good enough for that.

18 May 2017, 03:41

Atkinson

Jeffe,
Wow! all I can say is your becoming a better and more intelligent person these days!