quote:

Originally posted by Peakebrook:
I read on another forum that Shooting Times has bought out Jamison's contract. After the current acticles are printed, he will no longer be writing for ST.

They are probably not the only magazine he won't be writing for. These guys depend on products being given to them to test. Lots of folks are aware of what took place here. I'm thinking that Rick is going to have very few products to test. The shooting industry is pretty closely knit. For all intents and purposes I'd say his writing on shooting sports career is at an end.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
For all intents and purposes I'd say his writing on shooting sports career is at an end.

This is as it should be. Good riddance.

Gabe

and to think that nearly ever one of you probably thought that remington stealing the 416 hoffman and making it the 416 remington was a raw deal.

ask yourself if this is now being hypocritical


Let's see...

finally given acknowledgement of his work...

got a pile of money for a bought out contract

will have a royality or one time payment for his work.


Yeah, sucks to him.

FWIW, I just received the April (April already?) issue of Shooting Times, and Jamison has his usual column of Precision Reloading, as well as a feature article about the Leupold VX-L riflescope.

I read his articles about his Jamison cartridges and yes they were close to wsms.I asked a guy at Browning if that was a big factor in Winchester closing .He said it ddamn sure didnt help.It was like throwing a cynder block to a drowning person.I think its a wrong that he gets as much on royalties as he does from everyone that chambers wsms.I bet the wsms start to disapear with this on them.

quote:

Originally posted by DougH9:
FWIW...somewhere in my stack of old magazines, I remember seeing an add or article about a Calif. gunsmith that was offering rifles & brass for a short magnum using 348 Win's with the rim cut down and improved, in 1958. This is very close to the WSM.

The there was the HE express guy doing the same thing much later, but I don't know if that was before Jamison or not.

Roy Gradle, I believe. He alos converted action to operate left hand.

I tried to post about this over on Graybeards Outdoors, but the old fart said my post was nothing but a bunch oF BS.

Have any of you noticed the brass called Jamison International Brass being sold by Midway, If you have the new Midway catalog look on page 99 in the middle, wonder if he is going to open his own brass manufacturing company with the money he got out of Winchester, just wondering, inquiring minds want to know, bubba.

quote:

Originally posted by bubba:
I tried to post about this over on Graybeards Outdoors, but the old fart said my post was nothing but a bunch oF BS.

Have any of you noticed the brass called Jamison International Brass being sold by Midway, If you have the new Midway catalog look on page 99 in the middle, wonder if he is going to open his own brass manufacturing company with the money he got out of Winchester, just wondering, inquiring minds want to know, bubba.

Mark Jamison... Brass maker
Rick jamison ... writer and item of this discussion

no relationship

jeffe

Jeffe

Thanks for the info, glad to hear it, bubba.

Jeffe, The telephone ?? It wasn't even invented by Bell but by Antonio Meucci an italian living in NYC. Did it years before Bell and even in Congress they've been trying to give him proper credit. Language problems, unfamiliarity with the patent laws, and failure to see commercial application meant lawsuits against Bell were too little , too late....In general I'd like to see those who have spent time, energy, money be protected by patent law not just an 'idea' !!

Mete,
i don't understand teh Q... Bell brass, which was bought by jamison international, is no relationship to the Jamison/WSM patent.

jeffe

Slightly off-topic but ... if Jamison receives royalties for rifles chambered to the WSM's, does that mean Weatherby (or his kids now) receive royalties (or could ask them assuming a patent) for rifles chambered to the Weatherby magnums? I've also wondered why so many companies are "hands-off" when it comes to the Weatherby chamberings??? They may make a limited run like Winchester and Remington have in the past, but then they stop. Why?
Cheers...
Con

Jeffe , " to think the telephone was nearly not granted a patent" But that was on page one of this thread , I'm slow !!!

I heard from a guy tonight who lives 20 miles from the Ruger Factory.He said Ruger had dropped all the wsm cartridges in their rifles.I say good for Ruger.The wsms have been nothing but a marketing ploy to get fewer shooters to buy more guns.I bet in 5 years or less the wsms will be gone.I just met two guys at a gun shop who had identical Kimber wsm rifles brand new.The were a 300 wsm and a 325 wsm.They both had feeding problems.

I haven't read any of Rick Jamison's gun articles because where I live we don't get the magazines but I hunted with him once in South Africa and liked the guy. He was testing a single shot rifle of some kind. He shot an nyala with it. He seemed quite diligent about what he was doing.

He spoke very highly of his wife and I remember he used fishing terms to speak of her. He called her a "keeper."


VBR,


Ted Gorsline

I worked for some years in industries where patent protection was often sought for intellectual property. After you get a patent, then you have to fund the defense of the patent. A friend works for a small technology house that budgets $500,000 a year on their patent defense operation, and additional for particular infringements. Another guy told me he was a profit center for his company (he is an IP lawyer).

You also now see so-called "patent trolls": outfits that operate by owning IP and filing law suits to generate their revenue. Mr. Jamison might fall under that label.

From my point of view, Mr. Jamison developed his "short, fat cartridge design" and sought patent protection. He got patents. He also approached Winchester, I don't know if he proposed a sale or what, but Big Red turned him down. Later, they show up with the .300 WSM and others. Mr. J. takes legal action and collects (I believe the settlement is sealed, details not divulged).

Sounds like capitalism is action.

jim

I say its a damn shame.. if he can do it, so will probably others as well.

What if this starts hurting new cartridges from comming out? Not that everything is not mostly coverd, but you need inovation.

Jeffe,
Not really that important but Remington did not buy or have permission from the maker of Imperial Magnums. That is directly from the owner.

Here is how patents work and a few observations on comments thus far....

1. You can get a patent for just about anything, shoot - you could probably get a newly issued patent for the automobile! The patent office, being a government agency flooded with work but not resources essentially gives patents a quick once over and then issues them. I am not saying that getting a patent is an easy process for the inventor - it actually costs at least $10K just to pay a lawyer to write up the paperwork and escort it through the PTO...and that is for a simple idea!

2. Now, once you have a patent it ain't worth the paper its written on until it has been defended in court. I could take Jamison's patent, copy the cartridges down to the millimeter and start selling all I want and I haven't done anything wrong until he claims infringement, takes me to court, AND wins. The fact that Winchester settled with him means nothing at all to the validity of the patent. If anything it means that Winchester gave him a few thousand bucks or a sliver or a royalty just to make him go away (patent litigation is extremely expensive - so expensive that Jamison probably couldn't have afforded it and Winchester, being in the condition that they are figured that the settlement was a better deal than the cost of the litigation to win outright).

3. This particular set of patents is extremely contintous (and litigous!) because wildcatting is such a popular underground activity that proving prior art might be very simple and him showing that his idea is novel considering the wide source of wildcat cartridges would be difficult.

4. In general, I'll bet cartridges aren't really patentable - if so, every new cartridge developed by an ammunition or firearms maker would be patented pronto with licenses given to the necessary parties.... Think, would Remington be around today if they couldn't have chambered the model 700 in .270 Win? (Yes I know the .270 probably wasn't developed exclusively in house but I do think it illustrates the value of a good cartridge...) If cartridges could be patented AND UPHELD I think we would see some. I don't know of any cartridge that is exclusively produced by a manufacturer soley because it was patented by that manufacturer.

Finally, I get the impression that it is being assumed that Jamison made a bunch of money on this deal most likely Jamison went to Winchester for some money, Winchester told him to get lost - he went to a patent attorney that told him he had a slim chance of winning and would have to pay a fortune to try so Jamison went back to Winchester and they worked out a deal that was less than the cost of litigation.

If I produced WSM rifles I'd take Jamison to court and beat the sucker but I wouldn't have to if he gave me a license for less than the legal fees it would take to beat him. He essentially blackmailed Winchester into takiing a license because he got a patent that shouldn't have been issued. That is not his fault, that is the Patent Office's fault - contact your government representative....